[WSBARP] WSBARP Digest, Vol 75, Issue 28
Stephen Whitehouse
swhite8893 at aol.com
Fri Dec 18 19:56:06 PST 2020
No one is discussing the seriousness of the pandemic. The discussion is about the appropriateness of the solution, and on opposing that solution on one class of people. The end does not justify the means, either ethically or legally.
Steve
Stephen WhitehouseWhitehouse & Nichols, LLPP.O. Box 1273601 W. Railroad Ave.Shelton, Wa. 98584360-426-5885
swhite8893 at aol.com
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Subject: WSBARP Digest, Vol 75, Issue 28
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1. Re: WSBARP Digest, Vol 75, Issue 23 (rob at hctc.com)
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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 13:31:40 -0800
From: <rob at hctc.com>
To: "'WSBA Real Property Listserv'" <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] WSBARP Digest, Vol 75, Issue 23
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The difference between allowing people to take food from a grocery store, and requiring housing, is that this is a matter of public health. Public health restrictions include seat belt laws, wearing motorcycle helmets, and about a million others. The question really is, does the calculation that has been made about evictions, addressing the public health consequences to evictions in a pandemic, taking into account the benefits and burdens of the rules, meet the problem as well as it can be met, and as fairly as possible, under all the circumstances?
If anyone has a better idea, then I haven?t heard it. I really don?t think this is because people think landlords are bad so they are assigning disproportionate costs of the pandemic response to the bad landlords. I think it is more like, economic crisis. The disadvantaged are at risk of becoming homeless, and that in turn risks increasing infection rates. Increased infection rates put everyone at risk. So what should we do?
I also wonder at the calculation that has been made. Obviously, landlords bear an extreme share of this burden. Again, is there a better idea? Because not only did our State come up with this one, Congress, including the Republican Senate, has done so as well.
My opinion is pretty simple. Masks and social distancing, and washing hands, and avoiding crowds, really work against viruses. This was well known prior to this pandemic, and has been proven everywhere in the world. Google Taiwan Covid rates if you don?t agree. So far they have had 7 deaths; the last one was in early May. If we all had been wearing masks and social distancing and so on since March, kids would be back in school, businesses would be open, the economy would be entirely different, and landlords would be getting paid rent. Maybe not all of this at 100% of pre-pandemic levels, but at very substantially greater levels than we see now. People who insist on their Constitutional right to not wear masks, or lie about not being able to breathe in a mask so they don?t have to wear one, who go to large gatherings where most aren?t wearing masks ? these are the ones who are killing their neighbors and relatives and friends by spreading the disease.
And yes, I know that some people, a very small number, really can?t wear masks. So, maybe they should get someone else to go to Fred Meyer for them. This is deadly serious business.
Rob
Robert D. Wilson-Hoss
Hoss & Wilson-Hoss, LLP
236 West Birch Street
Shelton, WA 98584
360 426-2999
www.hossandwilson-hoss.com <http://www.hossandwilson-hoss.com>
rob at hctc.com <mailto:rob at hctc.com>
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of michael at westseattleattorney.com
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2020 11:30 AM
To: Stephen Whitehouse <swhite8893 at aol.com>; WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>; wsbarp-request at lists.wsbarppt.com
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] WSBARP Digest, Vol 75, Issue 23
Steve, I think we all should be asking your questions. History repeats its self. Europe's failed experiment with socialism is an example. When governments ran out of money due to its restraints on business and free everything, it first shifted the burden to the landowners and then to the public by raising taxes to fund its policies. Relevant here, an attorney friend in Italy states that if a tennat has any grievance (whether valid or made up) they are told to file suit and they will be given a court date about a year later. Of course they do not have to pay rent while the case is ongoing. They will also get an attorney at government expense. Of course the attorney does not get paid until the case is over.
So we have the same result here. Allege that pandemic requires shutting everything down (except big business and government still gets paid?) and instead of paying the busineses and people now unemployed, they shift the burden to landowners. Why is it that in Florida and Texas where they have more people and no shut downs, are there fewer hospitializations and deaths? We should all be asking these questions.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] WSBARP Digest, Vol 75, Issue 23
From: Stephen Whitehouse <swhite8893 at aol.com <mailto:swhite8893 at aol.com> >
Date: Fri, December 18, 2020 10:44 am
To: "wsbarp-request at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-request at lists.wsbarppt.com> "
<wsbarp-request at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-request at lists.wsbarppt.com> >, "wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> "
<wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
I have one more thought to throw into the mix. What if the governor issued a proclamation that said that you can go to a grocery store and take all the food you want and do not have to pay for it.
The only thing you have to do is leave your contact information and sign a promise to pay at a future date. There is no difference between that and the eviction moratorium. The only difference is that in some places, landlords are viewed as well healed bad guys. While that may be true in some cases, in rural communities the landlords are people who live and work here at other jobs.
The question is not whether people who have been affected by the virus shouldn't be helped. They should be. The question is how do you do it and who pays for it. What the governor did benefits some people it should not, and puts the burden on a limited class of people.
While this debates the ethical merits of what the governor did, as lawyers, we know it cannot be legally justified.
Steve
Stephen Whitehouse
Whitehouse & Nichols, LLP
P.O. Box 1273
601 W. Railroad Ave.
Shelton, Wa. 98584
360-426-5885
swhite8893 at aol.com <mailto:swhite8893 at aol.com>
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Landlord Question - Next legislative session (Kary Krismer)
2. Re: WSBARP Digest, Vol 75, Issue 19 (Jennifer L White)
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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 07:28:20 -0800
From: Kary Krismer <Krismer at comcast.net <mailto:Krismer at comcast.net> >
To: wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
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I'm not seeing that we need a complex legislative fix as much as just a
tweak that would simply allow judges to consider the relative equities
of the parties after the tenant demonstrates that the pandemic affected
their income.? Simply put, we have judges, let them think!? That to me
would be better than the legislature trying to think up solutions that
would apply to every situation.
That said I can see why that would not have worked early on because
courts were not set up for remote hearings.
The legislature could also add provisions that allow mediation to be set
up and a system for paying for it.
Kary L. Krismer
206 723-2148
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 17:23:30 +0000
From: Jennifer L White <jen at appletreelaw.com <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com> >
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] WSBARP Digest, Vol 75, Issue 19
Message-ID:
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After extensive review, I?ve determined the outcome of this thread! Just exchange the word Facebook with Listserv. Happy Friday!
[Image.jpeg]
Jennifer L. White, Esq.
[cid:image003.jpg at 01D6D51F.70C9BCA0 <mailto:image003.jpg at 01D6D51F.70C9BCA0> ]
jen at appletreelaw.com <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com> <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com> >
PO Box 11037
Yakima, WA 98909
509.225.9813
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > On Behalf Of scott at scottgthomaslaw.com <mailto:scott at scottgthomaslaw.com>
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2020 6:46 AM
To: 'WSBA Real Property Listserv' <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] WSBARP Digest, Vol 75, Issue 19
One of the most fascinating discussions I have witnessed in some time. One other aspect to voice, and I do this to disclose my bias, is that the underlying cause of the governor?s order is the pandemic. Seems obvious, but it is easily forgotten. On behalf of my municipal clients, I take part in weekly briefings by the county health department, and less frequently by the state department of health. Watching the caseloads go up while available ICU beds go down in my county has been frightening. At the same time, my clients deal with homeless persons and homeless camps on a daily basis. These individuals are not a separate society, but rather utilize the same grocery stores, gas stations, and other businesses that everyone else uses. And finally, I represent low income tenants through a volunteer legal services agency.
Despite all that, I largely agree with the points made be Stephen and several others, that this is a societal problem that we should all be paying to address. This is clearly not the same as a development project in which the government attempts to have the developer pay for the impacts of a project, but ends up obtaining mitigation for impacts not caused by the project; much of the takings litigation that has taken place over the past 40 years will not be helpful. A legislative fix that does not impose additional controls on landlords, but instead addresses the underlying issue of distributing the cost of emergency housing during a crisis across all of us is probably the best solution, IMO.
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> On Behalf Of Stephen Whitehouse
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 7:11 PM
To: wsbarp-request at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-request at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-request at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-request at lists.wsbarppt.com> >; wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] WSBARP Digest, Vol 75, Issue 19
I suspect that in the large cities, the majority of landlords have sizable units and are well healed. In rural communities, the vast majority of rentals are single family homes that are owned by people as investments to supplement their retirement income.
The moratorium also fails to differentiate between tenants who are affected by recent events and those that are not. There is also the basic issue of requiring someone to provide a benefit to someone else for free. While the proclamation does not
absolve tenants of their obligation to pay, any landlord knows that it is usually a wasted effort to go after past due rent. I am not unsympathetic to the problem at all. I am not sympathetic to the governor, in essence, requiring one person to provide free
housing to another. When society has a problem it needs to address, it is up to society to pay for the solution. I would gladly support that. But until advocates of the moratorium are willing to dig into their pockets to pay to reimburse landlords for their losses, I am not listening. It is not a question of, is there a problem and should we do something about it, it is plain and simple, who pays for it.
Steve
Stephen Whitehouse
Whitehouse & Nichols, LLP
P.O. Box 1273
601 W. Railroad Ave.
Shelton, Wa. 98584
360-426-5885
swhite8893 at aol.com <mailto:swhite8893 at aol.com> <mailto:swhite8893 at aol.com <mailto:swhite8893 at aol.com> >
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Landlord Question - Next legislative session (Christy M)
2. Re: Landlord Question - Next legislative session (Andrew Hay)
3. Re: Landlord Question - Next legislative session (Kary Krismer)
4. Re: Landlord Question - Next legislative session
(nestor at pplsweb.com <mailto:nestor at pplsweb.com> <mailto:nestor at pplsweb.com <mailto:nestor at pplsweb.com> >)
5. Re: Landlord Question - Next legislative session
(nestor at pplsweb.com<mailto:nestor at pplsweb.com <mailto:nestor at pplsweb.com> >)
6. Re: Landlord Question - Next legislative session (K. Garl Long)
7. Re: Landlord Question - Next legislative session (Andrew Hay)
8. Re: Landlord Question - Next legislative session (K. Garl Long)
9. January 6, 2021 12:00pm PST Open Forum on Pending Eviction
Legislation (Roger Moss)
10. Re: Landlord Question - Next legislative session (Eric Nelsen)
11. Re: Landlord Question - Next legislative session (Christy M)
12. Re: Landlord Question - Next legislative session (Stephen Brandli)
13. Re: Landlord Question - Next legislative session (K. Garl Long)
14. Re: Landlord Question - Next legislative session (Marvin Benson)
15. Re: Landlord Question - Next legislative session (K. Garl Long)
16. Re: Landlord Question - Next legislative session (Kary Krismer)
17. Re: Landlord Question - Next legislative session (Stephen Brandli)
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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 20:34:39 +0000
From: Christy M <talk2much84 at msn.com <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com> <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com> >>
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
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"Nonsense" is a good way to shut down any sort of meaningful discussion. I cannot say that I am convinced that you are one of the most vulnerable but I am convinced that you will refuse to hear what I have to say.
Have a good day.
________________________________
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> on behalf of K. Garl Long <Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> >>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 12:19 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
Nonsense. Many of us "most privileged" were not always so. Stereotyping divides, no matter what *ism is used as a wedge.
On 12/17/2020 12:13 PM, Christy M wrote:
I bet that all jurisdictions would welcome proposals and ideas.
The discussion on this listserv will always be complicated by the fact that almost everyone on it is socio-economically privileged, and the perspective of the most vulnerable will necessarily be missing.
________________________________
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> on behalf of Laurel Brown <laurel.brown8385 at gmail.com <mailto:laurel.brown8385 at gmail.com> <mailto:laurel.brown8385 at gmail.com <mailto:laurel.brown8385 at gmail.com> >><mailto:laurel.brown8385 at gmail.com <mailto:laurel.brown8385 at gmail.com> <mailto:laurel.brown8385 at gmail.com <mailto:laurel.brown8385 at gmail.com> >>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 12:02 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
What further complicates things are all the municipal moratoriums layered on top of the State one.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:00 PM Christy M <talk2much84 at msn.com <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com> <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com> ><mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com> <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com> >>> wrote:
The last time I read the moratorium (admittedly, I have not read all of the extensions), the moratorium was on evictions for non-payment of rent. Unless I missed an amendment, landlords can still evict for bad behavior.
________________________________
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> on behalf of Stephen Brandli <steve at brandlilaw.com <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com> <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com> ><mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com> <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com> >>>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 11:45 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
I do free consultations as a community service and typically get a steady stream of tenants. Lately, I have had a steady stream of landlords. Of the few who have called because they are not receiving rent, they are suffering economic hardship as a result of that loss in income. More importantly, the rest have had real reasons to evict unrelated to money including harassing behavior and boyfriend/girlfriends of non-owning family members who have left leaving the boyfriends/girlfriends who refuse to leave. This law is very broad and has many unintended consequences. I?m not concerned so much about the armor, it?s the sword slashing indiscriminately.
Steve
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> On Behalf Of Andrew Hay
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:20 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
I will take the pro moratorium position. Donning my suit of armor at the same time?..
This is a time of great economic pain due to a pandemic unequaled by any health crisis in 100 years. The moratoriums are a policy protecting the most vulnerable people in the population as a whole ? renters. As a group they are either poor or old or both. They are people who can?t afford homes due to lack of wealth.
There may be a limited number of seeming injustices to landlords caused by the moratorium, but the harm to vast numbers of renters who typically live paycheck to paycheck ? or social security check to social security check ? would be much greater.
This graph shows the wealth disparity between those who own homes and those who don?t.
[cid:part9.9BA1A3E3.0304DCFD at longlaw.biz <mailto:part9.9BA1A3E3.0304DCFD at longlaw.biz> <mailto:part9.9BA1A3E3.0304DCFD at longlaw.biz <mailto:part9.9BA1A3E3.0304DCFD at longlaw.biz> >]
The disparity between corporate landlords and renters would be even more ridiculously imbalanced. In a time of crisis, the moratorium policy appropriately shifts burdens to those who can better afford it to protect the overall stability of the state and the nation.
Andrew Hay
Hay & Swann PLLC
201 S. 34th St.
Tacoma, WA 98418
www.washingtonlaw.net <http://www.washingtonlaw.net> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonlaw.net%2F <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonlaw.net%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd14be93f2b5e4c53937008d8a2ca61cb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438337415621225%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=TqZY2xy9rReb0pHWsTwKZsZaTM%2B5UHbZ3oUSewjsTZM%3D&reserved=0> &data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd14be93f2b5e4c53937008d8a2ca61cb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438337415621225%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=TqZY2xy9rReb0pHWsTwKZsZaTM%2B5UHbZ3oUSewjsTZM%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.washingtonlaw.net%252F <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.washingtonlaw.net%252F&d!
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andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> ><mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> >>
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From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >] On Behalf Of Rani K. Sampson
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 9:48 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
Washington Landlord Association says that it ?has become a Plaintiff in a state lawsuit to stop the madness as well as supporting a Federal lawsuit financially with the same goal.? WLA?s Executive Director is Everett attorney, Rob Trickler.
In the meantime, proposed tenant-protections laws for next session can be seen here:
Eviction Reform - Landlord Tenant Protections - Draft - SUMMARY<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fr20.rs6.net%2Ftn.jsp%3Ff%3D0016xBNrvCGpuqtxj-u0QHd1WcIK79HR0K2nSIcHW4Lhy608EqHJczWUFQciVgluXswrmiFHmIHGoaHvh4lwW2c_gc6kHMx9FZEsnlgjQ7Lt2XWavKBV8bu93YnWEnYeDQjaN0XV90_N3ESQJFK_OQQj8Fhi-pFd0CM2oco7QBhc-VTDqOwr3w8NnmhZZy2Z-PPeETx8qIaQaYn5WDBf4iibczeJYx4eQn9qOL1bn429Kk%3D%26c%3DibxhavcAX8moKCW_wWGf2myqQgcKPwHVPy2f9DbCcqZKGKwYYUOUhg%3D%3D%26ch%3DVptldhPJG85Uqv6l5MYzzsb9g1H7Oq1tIl7UXoIoN2CmsegeYA1yBg%3D%3D&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd14be93f2b5e4c53937008d8a2ca61cb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438337415631223%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=NhBpeTx85KeEXhGCSQudhjEi16CBzYhxlYrlXBxXVCY%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%253A%252F%252Fr20.rs6.net%252Ftn.jsp%253Ff%253D0016xBNrvCGpuqtxj-u0QHd1WcIK79HR0K2nSIcHW4Lhy608EqHJczWUFQciVgluXswrmiFHmIHGo!
aHvh4lwW2c_gc6kHMx9FZEsnlgjQ7Lt2XWavKBV8bu93YnWEnYeDQjaN0XV90_N3ESQJFK_OQQj8Fhi-pFd0CM2oco7QBhc-VTDqOwr3w8NnmhZZy2Z-PPeETx8qIaQaYn5WDBf4iibczeJYx4eQn9qOL1bn429Kk%253D%2526c%253DibxhavcAX8moKCW_wWGf2myqQgcKPwHVPy2f9DbCcqZKGKwYYUOUhg%253D%253D%2526ch%253DVptldhPJG85Uqv6l5MYzzsb9g1H7Oq1tIl7UXoIoN2CmsegeYA1yBg%253D%253D&data=04%257C01%257C%257Cd14be93f2b5e4c53937008d8a2ca61cb%257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%257C1%257C0%257C637438337415631223%257CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000&sdata=NhBpeTx85KeEXhGCSQudhjEi16CBzYhxlYrlXBxXVCY%253D&reserved=0>>
Eviction Reform - Landlord Tenant Protections - Stakeholder Draft - FULL BILL<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fr20.rs6.net%2Ftn.jsp%3Ff%3D0016xBNrvCGpuqtxj-u0QHd1WcIK79HR0K2nSIcHW4Lhy608EqHJczWUFQciVgluXswmZm2QeOkLsGs-3fnr8wKT8fiCIWNqwkloeJDbMXGGCehK4iOHICy2mRzTJmTdR0QbAd7hPYsWjkL3pHMHzRApeTgPao6KEVcb5v2PpaLhWMt3HHLyKH5tVMvJbeh3dNjaeKv2Qpl2cd7S2S0WjAnmFFInndctYpxbevId-tr024%3D%26c%3DibxhavcAX8moKCW_wWGf2myqQgcKPwHVPy2f9DbCcqZKGKwYYUOUhg%3D%3D%26ch%3DVptldhPJG85Uqv6l5MYzzsb9g1H7Oq1tIl7UXoIoN2CmsegeYA1yBg%3D%3D&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd14be93f2b5e4c53937008d8a2ca61cb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438337415641211%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=O2ZVBQzwudN1STB6RfKxQa2LX%2BaweLcdKzSWRWCaf3E%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%253A%252F%252Fr20.rs6.net%252Ftn.jsp%253Ff%253D0016xBNrvCGpuqtxj-u0QHd1WcIK79HR0K2nSIcHW4Lhy608EqHJczWUFQciV!
gluXswmZm2QeOkLsGs-3fnr8wKT8fiCIWNqwkloeJDbMXGGCehK4iOHICy2mRzTJmTdR0QbAd7hPYsWjkL3pHMHzRApeTgPao6KEVcb5v2PpaLhWMt3HHLyKH5tVMvJbeh3dNjaeKv2Qpl2cd7S2S0WjAnmFFInndctYpxbevId-tr024%253D%2526c%253DibxhavcAX8moKCW_wWGf2myqQgcKPwHVPy2f9DbCcqZKGKwYYUOUhg%253D%253D%2526ch%253DVptldhPJG85Uqv6l5MYzzsb9g1H7Oq1tIl7UXoIoN2CmsegeYA1yBg%253D%253D&data=04%257C01%257C%257Cd14be93f2b5e4c53937008d8a2ca61cb%257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%257C1%257C0%257C637438337415641211%257CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000&sdata=O2ZVBQzwudN1STB6RfKxQa2LX%252BaweLcdKzSWRWCaf3E%253D&reserved=0>>
Rani K. Sampson
Overcast Law Offices | Attorney
23 S Wenatchee Ave #320, Wenatchee WA 98801 | (509) 663-5588 x 6
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> On Behalf Of Rob Rowley
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 11:15 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question
As a lowly dirt attorney a little bit beyond my pay grade.
My observation is that regulatory taking and substantive due process for landlords is largely dead in Washington state (unless you are a tenant) after the Yim I and Yim II (2019) cases. There was an excellent article about those cases in the RPPT newsletter.
Just wait till rent control (aka ?housing stability?) steamrolls through not this session but probably the following legislative session.
What say wiser counsel?
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> On Behalf Of Jennifer L White
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 10:53 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question
Rob,
I?m curious if any of you LL/T gurus and/or real property litigators are considering filing some kind of action or class action on a constitutional takings basis? It seems to me that the government has turned private landlords into unwilling purveyors of public housing. All of these regulations/laws were hastily conceived and handed down by fiat. The result has been a tremendous and concentrated loss to private property owners. Perhaps it has to play out further? Have to wait to quantify the exact loss when the moratoriums end and you work through getting them out under all of these onerous ?drag it out? policies benefiting only tenants? We all know that deadbeat tenants are never going to pay up even a tiny fraction of what they owe. That is but a legal illusion of justice for the property owners.
Jennifer L. White, Esq.
[cid:part22.12E89511.A81BFF06 at longlaw.biz <mailto:part22.12E89511.A81BFF06 at longlaw.biz> <mailto:part22.12E89511.A81BFF06 at longlaw.biz <mailto:part22.12E89511.A81BFF06 at longlaw.biz> >]
jen at appletreelaw.com <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com> <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com> ><mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com> <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com> >>
PO Box 11037
Yakima, WA 98909
509.225.9813
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> On Behalf Of Rowley, Rob
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 6:49 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question
As I tell my landlord clients we lawyers don't like guaranteeing anything but there is one thing I will guarantee is that the Governor will extend the moratorium sometime into 2021.
Also, I suspect that Pres. Biden (once in office) will also extend the CDC moratorium which is scheduled to lapse on December 31 which is only for nonpayment of rent.
You also have to look at your local county to see if they are part of the Eviction Resolution Program. Spokane County where I am based out of is a part of the ERP and eventually once the moratorium is lifted we have to participate in the program.
http://www.courts.wa.gov/newsinfo/index.cfm?fa=newsinfo.EvictionResolutionProgram<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.courts.wa.gov%2Fnewsinfo%2Findex.cfm%3Ffa%3Dnewsinfo.EvictionResolutionProgram <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.courts.wa.gov%2Fnewsinfo%2Findex.cfm%3Ffa%3Dnewsinfo.EvictionResolutionProgram&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd14be93f2b5e4c53937008d8a2ca61cb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438337415651211%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=TL7baQl3ScVdYhNvLzCgezayxlOziTKNMNWjfWl%2F4Ok%3D&reserved=0> &data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd14be93f2b5e4c53937008d8a2ca61cb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438337415651211%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=TL7baQl3ScVdYhNvLzCgezayxlOziTKNMNWjfWl%2F4Ok%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=h!
ttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.courts.wa.gov%252Fnewsinfo%252Findex.cfm%253Ffa%253Dnewsinfo.EvictionResolutionProgram <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.courts.wa.gov%252Fnewsinfo%252Findex.cfm%253Ffa%253Dnewsinfo.EvictionResolutionProgram&data=04%257C01%257C%257Cd14be93f2b5e4c53937008d8a2ca61cb%257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%257C1%257C0%257C637438337415651211%257CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000&sdata=TL7baQl3ScVdYhNvLzCgezayxlOziTKNMNWjfWl%252F4Ok%253D&reserved=0> &data=04%257C01%257C%257Cd14be93f2b5e4c53937008d8a2ca61cb%257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%257C1%257C0%257C637438337415651211%257CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000&sdata=TL7baQl3ScVdYhNvLzCgezayxlOziTKNMNWjfWl%252F4Ok%253D&reserved=0>>
Also, the upcoming legislative session has a number of bills which will be filed which will essentially make it near impossible to evict a for rent (or anything) anytime soon (month to month goes away for a while). Who knows what actually will pass as law is a different question. Two things that you never want to see being made is sausage and law.
Summary:
https://files.constantcontact.com/4d179692501/55a538ca-e731-49eb-a80d-9a7300174631.pdf<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffiles.constantcontact.com%2F4d179692501%2F55a538ca-e731-49eb-a80d-9a7300174631.pdf <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffiles.constantcontact.com%2F4d179692501%2F55a538ca-e731-49eb-a80d-9a7300174631.pdf&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd14be93f2b5e4c53937008d8a2ca61cb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438337415651211%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=gya8EOQcPXmlLo1kdrvAVkhkv1sQEi0ChzmJL7TxcQQ%3D&reserved=0> &data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd14be93f2b5e4c53937008d8a2ca61cb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438337415651211%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=gya8EOQcPXmlLo1kdrvAVkhkv1sQEi0ChzmJL7TxcQQ%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?ur!
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If I'm a betting man I would say the Legislature will pass some very tenant friendly provisions tied to the governor lifting the moratorium. In other words, let the Legislature take the flak from those unpaid landlords.
Interesting times we live in.
Rob Rowley
Spokane
On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 9:32 PM Sangeeta Saigal <attorney at sangeetasaigal.com <mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com> <mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com <mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com> ><mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com <mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com> <mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com <mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com> >>> wrote:
Hello Landlord Gurus,
I understand that there is a moratorium against evictions until December 31st.
According to how I understand the proclamation this moratorium applies to tenants who have lost their jobs or source of income related to Covid.
Question:
If a residential tenant has not lost their source of income ie. On govt assistance and they are not paying the rent does the moratorium against no eviction rule apply to them.
How best to approach such tenant who seems to be taking advantage of the moratorium.
Any advice would be really appreciated.
Sangeeta
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Robert R Rowley
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 20:46:06 +0000
From: Andrew Hay <andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> >>
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
Message-ID:
<MW3PR13MB3993B47B22BBE9802397284DB2C40 at MW3PR13MB3993.namprd13.prod.outlook.com <mailto:MW3PR13MB3993B47B22BBE9802397284DB2C40 at MW3PR13MB3993.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <mailto:MW3PR13MB3993B47B22BBE9802397284DB2C40 at MW3PR13MB3993.namprd13.prod.outlook.com <mailto:MW3PR13MB3993B47B22BBE9802397284DB2C40 at MW3PR13MB3993.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> >>
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Those are all powerful points, forcefully presented - and even with a quote from an enlightened French philosopher!
A worthy subject of debate.
Andrew Hay
Hay & Swann PLLC
201 S. 34th St.
Tacoma, WA 98418
www.washingtonlaw.net <http://www.washingtonlaw.net> <http://www.washingtonlaw.net/>
andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> ><mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> >>
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From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >] On Behalf Of Christy M
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 12:14 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
I bet that all jurisdictions would welcome proposals and ideas.
The discussion on this listserv will always be complicated by the fact that almost everyone on it is socio-economically privileged, and the perspective of the most vulnerable will necessarily be missing.
________________________________
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> on behalf of Laurel Brown <laurel.brown8385 at gmail.com <mailto:laurel.brown8385 at gmail.com> <mailto:laurel.brown8385 at gmail.com <mailto:laurel.brown8385 at gmail.com> >>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 12:02 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
What further complicates things are all the municipal moratoriums layered on top of the State one.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:00 PM Christy M <talk2much84 at msn.com <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com> <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com> ><mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com> <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com> >>> wrote:
The last time I read the moratorium (admittedly, I have not read all of the extensions), the moratorium was on evictions for non-payment of rent. Unless I missed an amendment, landlords can still evict for bad behavior.
________________________________
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> on behalf of Stephen Brandli <steve at brandlilaw.com <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com> <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com> ><mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com> <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com> >>>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 11:45 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
I do free consultations as a community service and typically get a steady stream of tenants. Lately, I have had a steady stream of landlords. Of the few who have called because they are not receiving rent, they are suffering economic hardship as a result of that loss in income. More importantly, the rest have had real reasons to evict unrelated to money including harassing behavior and boyfriend/girlfriends of non-owning family members who have left leaving the boyfriends/girlfriends who refuse to leave. This law is very broad and has many unintended consequences. I'm not concerned so much about the armor, it's the sword slashing indiscriminately.
Steve
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> On Behalf Of Andrew Hay
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:20 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
I will take the pro moratorium position. Donning my suit of armor at the same time.....
This is a time of great economic pain due to a pandemic unequaled by any health crisis in 100 years. The moratoriums are a policy protecting the most vulnerable people in the population as a whole - renters. As a group they are either poor or old or both. They are people who can't afford homes due to lack of wealth.
There may be a limited number of seeming injustices to landlords caused by the moratorium, but the harm to vast numbers of renters who typically live paycheck to paycheck - or social security check to social security check - would be much greater.
This graph shows the wealth disparity between those who own homes and those who don't.
[cid:image001.jpg at 01D6D472.95643160 <mailto:image001.jpg at 01D6D472.95643160> <mailto:image001.jpg at 01D6D472.95643160 <mailto:image001.jpg at 01D6D472.95643160> >]
The disparity between corporate landlords and renters would be even more ridiculously imbalanced. In a time of crisis, the moratorium policy appropriately shifts burdens to those who can better afford it to protect the overall stability of the state and the nation.
Andrew Hay
Hay & Swann PLLC
201 S. 34th St.
Tacoma, WA 98418
www.washingtonlaw.net <http://www.washingtonlaw.net> <https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonlaw.net%2F <https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonlaw.net%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C09399152ed91402c282f08d8a2c7f1f8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438326938440865%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=wwu8vAvbRSnGvIjQhg9gN8gTDwf45M8iv%2BR4B%2Fpie48%3D&reserved=0> &data=04%7C01%7C%7C09399152ed91402c282f08d8a2c7f1f8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438326938440865%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=wwu8vAvbRSnGvIjQhg9gN8gTDwf45M8iv%2BR4B%2Fpie48%3D&reserved=0<https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.washingtonlaw.net%252F <https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.washingtonlaw.ne!
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andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> ><mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> >>
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THIS IS A CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION AND IS INTENDED FOR THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT ONLY. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS COMMUNICATION IN ERROR, PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER IMMEDIATELY AND DESTROY ALL COPIES
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >] On Behalf Of Rani K. Sampson
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 9:48 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
Washington Landlord Association says that it "has become a Plaintiff in a state lawsuit to stop the madness as well as supporting a Federal lawsuit financially with the same goal." WLA's Executive Director is Everett attorney, Rob Trickler.
In the meantime, proposed tenant-protections laws for next session can be seen here:
Eviction Reform - Landlord Tenant Protections - Draft - SUMMARY<https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fr20.rs6.net%2Ftn.jsp%3Ff%3D0016xBNrvCGpuqtxj-u0QHd1WcIK79HR0K2nSIcHW4Lhy608EqHJczWUFQciVgluXswrmiFHmIHGoaHvh4lwW2c_gc6kHMx9FZEsnlgjQ7Lt2XWavKBV8bu93YnWEnYeDQjaN0XV90_N3ESQJFK_OQQj8Fhi-pFd0CM2oco7QBhc-VTDqOwr3w8NnmhZZy2Z-PPeETx8qIaQaYn5WDBf4iibczeJYx4eQn9qOL1bn429Kk%3D%26c%3DibxhavcAX8moKCW_wWGf2myqQgcKPwHVPy2f9DbCcqZKGKwYYUOUhg%3D%3D%26ch%3DVptldhPJG85Uqv6l5MYzzsb9g1H7Oq1tIl7UXoIoN2CmsegeYA1yBg%3D%3D&data=04%7C01%7C%7C09399152ed91402c282f08d8a2c7f1f8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438326938440865%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=pRqvD3h6kUtHPdKeIjqb2KYpReEjSYjWgJ0y4PCuRkY%3D&reserved=0<https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%253A%252F%252Fr20.rs6.net%252Ftn.jsp%253Ff%253D0016xBNrvCGpuqtxj-u0QHd1WcIK79HR0K2nSIcHW4Lhy608EqHJczWUFQciVgluXswrmiFHmIH!
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Eviction Reform - Landlord Tenant Protections - Stakeholder Draft - FULL BILL<https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fr20.rs6.net%2Ftn.jsp%3Ff%3D0016xBNrvCGpuqtxj-u0QHd1WcIK79HR0K2nSIcHW4Lhy608EqHJczWUFQciVgluXswmZm2QeOkLsGs-3fnr8wKT8fiCIWNqwkloeJDbMXGGCehK4iOHICy2mRzTJmTdR0QbAd7hPYsWjkL3pHMHzRApeTgPao6KEVcb5v2PpaLhWMt3HHLyKH5tVMvJbeh3dNjaeKv2Qpl2cd7S2S0WjAnmFFInndctYpxbevId-tr024%3D%26c%3DibxhavcAX8moKCW_wWGf2myqQgcKPwHVPy2f9DbCcqZKGKwYYUOUhg%3D%3D%26ch%3DVptldhPJG85Uqv6l5MYzzsb9g1H7Oq1tIl7UXoIoN2CmsegeYA1yBg%3D%3D&data=04%7C01%7C%7C09399152ed91402c282f08d8a2c7f1f8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438326938450862%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=8GIhmBGfl%2BygSuCVkRhjktyFgZm5ubA9OG2ML0h%2BviY%3D&reserved=0<https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%253A%252F%252Fr20.rs6.net%252Ftn.jsp%253Ff%253D0016xBNrvCGpuqtxj-u0QHd1WcIK79HR0K2nSIcHW4Lhy608EqHJczWUF!
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Rani K. Sampson
Overcast Law Offices | Attorney
23 S Wenatchee Ave #320, Wenatchee WA 98801 | (509) 663-5588 x 6
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> On Behalf Of Rob Rowley
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 11:15 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question
As a lowly dirt attorney a little bit beyond my pay grade.
My observation is that regulatory taking and substantive due process for landlords is largely dead in Washington state (unless you are a tenant) after the Yim I and Yim II (2019) cases. There was an excellent article about those cases in the RPPT newsletter.
Just wait till rent control (aka 'housing stability') steamrolls through not this session but probably the following legislative session.
What say wiser counsel?
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> On Behalf Of Jennifer L White
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 10:53 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question
Rob,
I'm curious if any of you LL/T gurus and/or real property litigators are considering filing some kind of action or class action on a constitutional takings basis? It seems to me that the government has turned private landlords into unwilling purveyors of public housing. All of these regulations/laws were hastily conceived and handed down by fiat. The result has been a tremendous and concentrated loss to private property owners. Perhaps it has to play out further? Have to wait to quantify the exact loss when the moratoriums end and you work through getting them out under all of these onerous "drag it out" policies benefiting only tenants? We all know that deadbeat tenants are never going to pay up even a tiny fraction of what they owe. That is but a legal illusion of justice for the property owners.
Jennifer L. White, Esq.
[cid:image002.jpg at 01D6D472.95643160 <mailto:image002.jpg at 01D6D472.95643160> <mailto:image002.jpg at 01D6D472.95643160 <mailto:image002.jpg at 01D6D472.95643160> >]
jen at appletreelaw.com <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com> <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com> ><mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com> <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com> >>
PO Box 11037
Yakima, WA 98909
509.225.9813
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Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 6:49 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question
As I tell my landlord clients we lawyers don't like guaranteeing anything but there is one thing I will guarantee is that the Governor will extend the moratorium sometime into 2021.
Also, I suspect that Pres. Biden (once in office) will also extend the CDC moratorium which is scheduled to lapse on December 31 which is only for nonpayment of rent.
You also have to look at your local county to see if they are part of the Eviction Resolution Program. Spokane County where I am based out of is a part of the ERP and eventually once the moratorium is lifted we have to participate in the program.
http://www.courts.wa.gov/newsinfo/index.cfm?fa=newsinfo.EvictionResolutionProgram<https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.courts.wa.gov%2Fnewsinfo%2Findex.cfm%3Ffa%3Dnewsinfo.EvictionResolutionProgram <https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.courts.wa.gov%2Fnewsinfo%2Findex.cfm%3Ffa%3Dnewsinfo.EvictionResolutionProgram&data=04%7C01%7C%7C09399152ed91402c282f08d8a2c7f1f8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438326938450862%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=njRAG69f0c9qJmFIm7cZk5erqYyvbO2bq%2BS2gZWWEjQ%3D&reserved=0> &data=04%7C01%7C%7C09399152ed91402c282f08d8a2c7f1f8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438326938450862%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=njRAG69f0c9qJmFIm7cZk5erqYyvbO2bq%2BS2gZWWEjQ%3D&reserved=0<https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?ur!
l=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.courts.wa.gov%252Fnewsinfo%252Findex.cfm%253Ffa%253Dnewsinfo.EvictionResolutionProgram <https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.courts.wa.gov%252Fnewsinfo%252Findex.cfm%253Ffa%253Dnewsinfo.EvictionResolutionProgram&data=04%257C01%257C%257C09399152ed91402c282f08d8a2c7f1f8%257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%257C1%257C0%257C637438326938450862%257CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000&sdata=njRAG69f0c9qJmFIm7cZk5erqYyvbO2bq%252BS2gZWWEjQ%253D&reserved=0> &data=04%257C01%257C%257C09399152ed91402c282f08d8a2c7f1f8%257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%257C1%257C0%257C637438326938450862%257CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000&sdata=njRAG69f0c9qJmFIm7cZk5erqYyvbO2bq%252BS2gZWWEjQ%253D&reserved=0>>
Also, the upcoming legislative session has a number of bills which will be filed which will essentially make it near impossible to evict a for rent (or anything) anytime soon (month to month goes away for a while). Who knows what actually will pass as law is a different question. Two things that you never want to see being made is sausage and law.
Summary:
https://files.constantcontact.com/4d179692501/55a538ca-e731-49eb-a80d-9a7300174631.pdf<https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffiles.constantcontact.com%2F4d179692501%2F55a538ca-e731-49eb-a80d-9a7300174631.pdf <https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffiles.constantcontact.com%2F4d179692501%2F55a538ca-e731-49eb-a80d-9a7300174631.pdf&data=04%7C01%7C%7C09399152ed91402c282f08d8a2c7f1f8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438326938460853%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=YajG2rDD62jhkge3b6SzFyMKnKL2WgJholyD27fUnZ0%3D&reserved=0> &data=04%7C01%7C%7C09399152ed91402c282f08d8a2c7f1f8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438326938460853%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=YajG2rDD62jhkge3b6SzFyMKnKL2WgJholyD27fUnZ0%3D&reserved=0<https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/!
?url=https%253A%252F%252Ffiles.constantcontact.com%252F4d179692501%252F55a538ca-e731-49eb-a80d-9a7300174631.pdf <https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%253A%252F%252Ffiles.constantcontact.com%252F4d179692501%252F55a538ca-e731-49eb-a80d-9a7300174631.pdf&data=04%257C01%257C%257C09399152ed91402c282f08d8a2c7f1f8%257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%257C1%257C0%257C637438326938460853%257CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000&sdata=YajG2rDD62jhkge3b6SzFyMKnKL2WgJholyD27fUnZ0%253D&reserved=0> &data=04%257C01%257C%257C09399152ed91402c282f08d8a2c7f1f8%257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%257C1%257C0%257C637438326938460853%257CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000&sdata=YajG2rDD62jhkge3b6SzFyMKnKL2WgJholyD27fUnZ0%253D&reserved=0>>
If I'm a betting man I would say the Legislature will pass some very tenant friendly provisions tied to the governor lifting the moratorium. In other words, let the Legislature take the flak from those unpaid landlords.
Interesting times we live in.
Rob Rowley
Spokane
On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 9:32 PM Sangeeta Saigal <attorney at sangeetasaigal.com <mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com> <mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com <mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com> ><mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com <mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com> <mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com <mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com> >>> wrote:
Hello Landlord Gurus,
I understand that there is a moratorium against evictions until December 31st.
According to how I understand the proclamation this moratorium applies to tenants who have lost their jobs or source of income related to Covid.
Question:
If a residential tenant has not lost their source of income ie. On govt assistance and they are not paying the rent does the moratorium against no eviction rule apply to them.
How best to approach such tenant who seems to be taking advantage of the moratorium.
Any advice would be really appreciated.
Sangeeta
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Robert R Rowley
Attorney & Counselor at Law
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Attorney and Counselor at Law
5071 SW Waite St.
Seattle, WA 98116
info at lbrownlaw.com <mailto:info at lbrownlaw.com> <mailto:info at lbrownlaw.com <mailto:info at lbrownlaw.com> ><mailto:info at lbrownlaw.com <mailto:info at lbrownlaw.com> <mailto:info at lbrownlaw.com <mailto:info at lbrownlaw.com> >>
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 13:08:50 -0800
From: Kary Krismer <Krismer at comcast.net <mailto:Krismer at comcast.net> <mailto:Krismer at comcast.net <mailto:Krismer at comcast.net> >>
To: wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
Message-ID: <6b90e320-b95e-476b-fe85-0d252ad0e3bb at comcast.net <mailto:6b90e320-b95e-476b-fe85-0d252ad0e3bb at comcast.net> <mailto:6b90e320-b95e-476b-fe85-0d252ad0e3bb at comcast.net <mailto:6b90e320-b95e-476b-fe85-0d252ad0e3bb at comcast.net> >>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
I wonder if condos with a large percentage of rented units will
eventually be adversely affected.? At some point the landlord may stop
paying dues if the tenant is not paying dues.
Kary L. Krismer
206 723-2148
On 12/17/2020 10:50 AM, Rani K. Sampson wrote:
>
> The long-term consequences of forcing landlords to absorb large
> financial losses are predictable: landlords will liquidate their real
> estate investments (they?ll sell).? Tenants will have much less
> housing to choose from.? Rental houses will be incredibly hard to
> find.? The void might be filled by corporate landlords building
> apartments or government landlords building projects.
>
> This is very bad for tenants, long term. The loss of rental housing
> will affect all of us.
>
> *Rani K. Sampson*
>
> Overcast Law Offices |Attorney
>
> 23 S Wenatchee Ave #320, Wenatchee WA 98801 |(509) 663-5588 x 6
>
>
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 16:08:52 -0500
From: <nestor at pplsweb.com <mailto:nestor at pplsweb.com> <mailto:nestor at pplsweb.com <mailto:nestor at pplsweb.com> >>
To: "'WSBA Real Property Listserv'" <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
Message-ID: <012e01d6d4b8$d2d16ea0$78744be0$@pplsweb.com <http://pplsweb.com> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I was sitting back and watching the discussion. Undeniable fact that we all
are suffering due to the pandemic in one form or another and some more than
others. Thoughts to ponder, without judgment or pointing out anyone in
particular.
* Should someone suffer financially at the expense of another,
regardless of degree or socioeconomic background, or does equal protection
under law have a finger lifting the blindfold a little in order to put a
finger on the scale?
* Does making assumptions on others and name calling strengthen one's
argument or does it detract from the discussion and shuts down any
meaningful exchange of ideas has to say?
Good day all and stay safe.
Nestor Gorfinkel, Attorney at Law
Licensed in Florida & Washington
Florida Civil-Law (International) Notary
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From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
On Behalf Of Andrew Hay
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 3:46 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
Those are all powerful points, forcefully presented - and even with a quote
from an enlightened French philosopher!
A worthy subject of debate.
Andrew Hay
Hay & Swann PLLC
201 S. 34th St.
Tacoma, WA 98418
<http://www.washingtonlaw.net/> www.washingtonlaw.net <http://www.washingtonlaw.net>
<mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> >> andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> >
253.272.2400 (w)
253.377.3085 (c)
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From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
[mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >] On Behalf Of Christy M
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 12:14 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
I bet that all jurisdictions would welcome proposals and ideas.
The discussion on this listserv will always be complicated by the fact that
almost everyone on it is socio-economically privileged, and the perspective
of the most vulnerable will necessarily be missing.
_____
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
<wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> > on behalf of Laurel Brown
<laurel.brown8385 at gmail.com <mailto:laurel.brown8385 at gmail.com> <mailto:laurel.brown8385 at gmail.com <mailto:laurel.brown8385 at gmail.com> > <mailto:laurel.brown8385 at gmail.com <mailto:laurel.brown8385 at gmail.com> <mailto:laurel.brown8385 at gmail.com <mailto:laurel.brown8385 at gmail.com> >> >
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 12:02 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> >
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
What further complicates things are all the municipal moratoriums layered on
top of the State one.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:00 PM Christy M <talk2much84 at msn.com <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com> <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com> >
<mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com> <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com> >> > wrote:
The last time I read the moratorium (admittedly, I have not read all of the
extensions), the moratorium was on evictions for non-payment of rent. Unless
I missed an amendment, landlords can still evict for bad behavior.
_____
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
<wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> > on behalf of Stephen Brandli
<steve at brandlilaw.com <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com> <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com> > <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com> <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com> >> >
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 11:45 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> >
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
I do free consultations as a community service and typically get a steady
stream of tenants. Lately, I have had a steady stream of landlords. Of the
few who have called because they are not receiving rent, they are suffering
economic hardship as a result of that loss in income. More importantly, the
rest have had real reasons to evict unrelated to money including harassing
behavior and boyfriend/girlfriends of non-owning family members who have
left leaving the boyfriends/girlfriends who refuse to leave. This law is
very broad and has many unintended consequences. I'm not concerned so much
about the armor, it's the sword slashing indiscriminately.
Steve
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
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<wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> > On Behalf Of Andrew Hay
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:20 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
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Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
I will take the pro moratorium position. Donning my suit of armor at the
same time...
This is a time of great economic pain due to a pandemic unequaled by any
health crisis in 100 years. The moratoriums are a policy protecting the
most vulnerable people in the population as a whole - renters. As a group
they are either poor or old or both. They are people who can't afford homes
due to lack of wealth.
There may be a limited number of seeming injustices to landlords caused by
the moratorium, but the harm to vast numbers of renters who typically live
paycheck to paycheck - or social security check to social security check -
would be much greater.
This graph shows the wealth disparity between those who own homes and those
who don't.
The disparity between corporate landlords and renters would be even more
ridiculously imbalanced. In a time of crisis, the moratorium policy
appropriately shifts burdens to those who can better afford it to protect
the overall stability of the state and the nation.
Andrew Hay
Hay & Swann PLLC
201 S. 34th St.
Tacoma, WA 98418
<https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washin<https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.washin>
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www.washingtonlaw.net <http://www.washingtonlaw.net>
<mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> >> andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> >
253.272.2400 (w)
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From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
[mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >] On Behalf Of Rani K. Sampson
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 9:48 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
Washington Landlord Association says that it "has become a Plaintiff in a
state lawsuit to stop the madness as well as supporting a Federal lawsuit
financially with the same goal." WLA's Executive Director is Everett
attorney, Rob Trickler.
In the meantime, proposed tenant-protections laws for next session can be
seen here:
Eviction Reform - Landlord Tenant Protections - Draft - SUMMARY
Eviction Reform - Landlord Tenant Protections - Stakeholder Draft - FULL
BILL
Rani K. Sampson
Overcast Law Offices | Attorney
23 S Wenatchee Ave #320, Wenatchee WA 98801 | (509) 663-5588 x 6
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
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<wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> > On Behalf Of Rob Rowley
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 11:15 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
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Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question
As a lowly dirt attorney a little bit beyond my pay grade.
My observation is that regulatory taking and substantive due process for
landlords is largely dead in Washington state (unless you are a tenant)
after the Yim I and Yim II (2019) cases. There was an excellent article
about those cases in the RPPT newsletter.
Just wait till rent control (aka 'housing stability') steamrolls through not
this session but probably the following legislative session.
What say wiser counsel?
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
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<wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> > On Behalf Of Jennifer L White
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 10:53 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> >
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question
Rob,
I'm curious if any of you LL/T gurus and/or real property litigators are
considering filing some kind of action or class action on a constitutional
takings basis? It seems to me that the government has turned private
landlords into unwilling purveyors of public housing. All of these
regulations/laws were hastily conceived and handed down by fiat. The result
has been a tremendous and concentrated loss to private property owners.
Perhaps it has to play out further? Have to wait to quantify the exact loss
when the moratoriums end and you work through getting them out under all of
these onerous "drag it out" policies benefiting only tenants? We all know
that deadbeat tenants are never going to pay up even a tiny fraction of what
they owe. That is but a legal illusion of justice for the property owners.
Jennifer L. White, Esq.
<mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com> <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com> >> jen at appletreelaw.com <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com> <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com> >
PO Box 11037
Yakima, WA 98909
509.225.9813
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
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<wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> > On Behalf Of Rowley, Rob
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 6:49 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
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Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question
As I tell my landlord clients we lawyers don't like guaranteeing anything
but there is one thing I will guarantee is that the Governor will extend the
moratorium sometime into 2021.
Also, I suspect that Pres. Biden (once in office) will also extend the CDC
moratorium which is scheduled to lapse on December 31 which is only for
nonpayment of rent.
You also have to look at your local county to see if they are part of the
Eviction Resolution Program. Spokane County where I am based out of is a
part of the ERP and eventually once the moratorium is lifted we have to
participate in the program.
<https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.courts<https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.courts>
.wa.gov <http://wa.gov> %2Fnewsinfo%2Findex.cfm%3Ffa%3Dnewsinfo.EvictionResolutionProgram&dat
a=04%7C01%7C%7C09399152ed91402c282f08d8a2c7f1f8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaa
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http://www.courts.wa.gov/newsinfo/index.cfm?fa=newsinfo.EvictionResolutionPr
ogram
Also, the upcoming legislative session has a number of bills which will be
filed which will essentially make it near impossible to evict a for rent (or
anything) anytime soon (month to month goes away for a while). Who knows
what actually will pass as law is a different question. Two things that you
never want to see being made is sausage and law.
Summary:
<https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffiles.con<https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%253A%252F%252Ffiles.con>
stantcontact.com <http://stantcontact.com> %2F4d179692501%2F55a538ca-e731-49eb-a80d-9a7300174631.pdf&da
ta=04%7C01%7C%7C09399152ed91402c282f08d8a2c7f1f8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaa
aaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438326938460853%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA
wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=YajG2rDD62j
hkge3b6SzFyMKnKL2WgJholyD27fUnZ0%3D&reserved=0>
https://files.constantcontact.com/4d179692501/55a538ca-e731-49eb-a80d-9a7300
174631.pdf
If I'm a betting man I would say the Legislature will pass some very tenant
friendly provisions tied to the governor lifting the moratorium. In other
words, let the Legislature take the flak from those unpaid landlords.
Interesting times we live in.
Rob Rowley
Spokane
On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 9:32 PM Sangeeta Saigal <attorney at sangeetasaigal.com <mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com> <mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com <mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com> >
<mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com <mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com> <mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com <mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com> >> > wrote:
Hello Landlord Gurus,
I understand that there is a moratorium against evictions until December
31st.
According to how I understand the proclamation this moratorium applies to
tenants who have lost their jobs or source of income related to Covid.
Question:
If a residential tenant has not lost their source of income ie. On govt
assistance and they are not paying the rent does the moratorium against no
eviction rule apply to them.
How best to approach such tenant who seems to be taking advantage of the
moratorium.
Any advice would be really appreciated.
Sangeeta
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Attorney & Counselor at Law
<tel:(509)+252-5074> (509) 252-5074 <tel:(509)+994-1143> (509) 994-1143
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<mailto:rob at rowleylegal.com <mailto:rob at rowleylegal.com> <mailto:rob at rowleylegal.com <mailto:rob at rowleylegal.com> >> rob at rowleylegal.com <mailto:rob at rowleylegal.com> <mailto:rob at rowleylegal.com <mailto:rob at rowleylegal.com> >
Helping You Protect What Matters Most
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Practice concentrated on business, real estate and general legal matters in
Washington and Idaho.
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info at lbrownlaw.com <mailto:info at lbrownlaw.com> <mailto:info at lbrownlaw.com <mailto:info at lbrownlaw.com> > <mailto:info at lbrownlaw.com <mailto:info at lbrownlaw.com> <mailto:info at lbrownlaw.com <mailto:info at lbrownlaw.com> >>
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 16:23:24 -0500
From: <nestor at pplsweb.com <mailto:nestor at pplsweb.com> <mailto:nestor at pplsweb.com <mailto:nestor at pplsweb.com> >>
To: "'WSBA Real Property Listserv'" <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
Message-ID: <017901d6d4ba$dac29880$9047c980$@pplsweb.com <http://pplsweb.com> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Not only that, but also non-payment of utilities, required maintenance and necessary or urgent repairs.
Nestor Gorfinkel, Attorney at Law
Licensed in Florida & Washington
Florida Civil-Law (International) Notary
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From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> On Behalf Of Kary Krismer
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 4:09 PM
To: wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
I wonder if condos with a large percentage of rented units will eventually be adversely affected. At some point the landlord may stop paying dues if the tenant is not paying dues.
Kary L. Krismer
206 723-2148
On 12/17/2020 10:50 AM, Rani K. Sampson wrote:
The long-term consequences of forcing landlords to absorb large financial losses are predictable: landlords will liquidate their real estate investments (they?ll sell). Tenants will have much less housing to choose from. Rental houses will be incredibly hard to find. The void might be filled by corporate landlords building apartments or government landlords building projects.
This is very bad for tenants, long term. The loss of rental housing will affect all of us.
Rani K. Sampson
Overcast Law Offices | Attorney
23 S Wenatchee Ave #320, Wenatchee WA 98801 | (509) 663-5588 x 6
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 13:34:18 -0800
From: "K. Garl Long" <Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> >>
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>, Rob
Rowley <rob at rowleylegal.com <mailto:rob at rowleylegal.com> <mailto:rob at rowleylegal.com <mailto:rob at rowleylegal.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
Message-ID: <af78841c-13e7-4bfc-bc6e-64feb2d781a6 at longlaw.biz <mailto:af78841c-13e7-4bfc-bc6e-64feb2d781a6 at longlaw.biz> <mailto:af78841c-13e7-4bfc-bc6e-64feb2d781a6 at longlaw.biz <mailto:af78841c-13e7-4bfc-bc6e-64feb2d781a6 at longlaw.biz> >>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
/It is not inequality which is the real misfortune, it is dependence.
/Voltaire again.
On 12/17/2020 11:25 AM, Rob Rowley wrote:
>
> In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as
> possible from one class of citizens to give to another.? Voltaire.
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> *On Behalf Of *Chris B
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:59 AM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
> I just entered into an agreement to sell 4 of my 12 rental homes as a
> package.? All will be town down and replaced with McMansions. These
> are nice homes that I am proud to own, two of which have tenants in
> them for more than 10 years.? While all my tenants are current in
> their rent, I no longer wish to be in the rental housing business in a
> state that is clearly trying to kill that business.
>
> As they say, it is ?a feature, not a bug.?
>
> Chris Benis
>
> Hecker, Wakefield & Feilberg, P.S.
>
> 321 First Avenue West, Seattle, WA? 98119
>
> 206.447-1900 office ? 206.447.9075 fax ? www. heckerwakefield.com <http://heckerwakefield.com>
> <http://heckerwakefield.com <http://heckerwakefield.com/> <http://heckerwakefield.com/>>
>
> This message contains information that may be CONFIDENTIAL AND
> PRIVILEGED.? Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive
> for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the
> message or any information contained in the message.? If you have
> received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply
> e-mail chrisb at heckerwakefield.com <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com> <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com> > <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com> <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com> >>,
> and delete this message. Thank you very much.
>
> To comply with recent IRS rules, we must inform you that this message,
> if it contains advice relating to federal taxes, was not intended or
> written to be used, and it cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding
> penalties that may be imposed under federal tax law.? Under recent IRS
> rules, a taxpayer may rely on professional advice to avoid federal tax
> penalties only if that advice is reflected in a comprehensive tax
> opinion that conforms to stringent requirements under federal law.?
> Please contact me if you would like to discuss our preparation of an
> opinion that conforms to these new rules.
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> *On Behalf Of *Rani K. Sampson
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:51 AM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
> The long-term consequences of forcing landlords to absorb large
> financial losses are predictable: landlords will liquidate their real
> estate investments (they?ll sell).? Tenants will have much less
> housing to choose from.? Rental houses will be incredibly hard to
> find.? The void might be filled by corporate landlords building
> apartments or government landlords building projects.
>
> This is very bad for tenants, long term. The loss of rental housing
> will affect all of us.
>
> *Rani K. Sampson*
>
> Overcast Law Offices |Attorney
>
> 23 S Wenatchee Ave #320, Wenatchee WA 98801 |(509) 663-5588 x 6
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> *On Behalf Of *Kary Krismer
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:37 AM
> *To:* wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> > <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
> You're generalizing.? The moratorium protects an entire class
> regardless of their need, at the expense of another class, regardless
> of their need.? If it were based on economics I'd have little problem
> with it, but it's not.? Beyond that though, I'm worried about the long
> term adverse effects on those who actually need the protection.? The
> moratorium may have given them a false sense of security and lead them
> to make bad decisions.? Back when I practiced law I did primarily
> debtor bankruptcy and the moratorium is likely causing people to make
> decisions that no competent financial planner would ever advise them
> to make.
>
> Also, you can't even assume someone who rents cannot afford to own.?
> They may just not wish to own for many different reasons.
>
> Kary L. Krismer
> 206 723-2148
>
> On 12/17/2020 10:20 AM, Andrew Hay wrote:
>
> I will take the pro moratorium position.? Donning my suit of armor
> at the same time?..
>
> This is a time of great economic pain due to a pandemic unequaled
> by any health crisis in 100 years.? The moratoriums are a policy
> protecting the most vulnerable people in the population as a whole
> ? renters.? As a group they are either poor or old or both.? They
> are people who can?t afford homes due to lack of wealth.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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>
>
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 21:55:51 +0000
From: Andrew Hay <andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> >>
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
Message-ID:
<MW3PR13MB39932F4647A5CB0D3773C398B2C40 at MW3PR13MB3993.namprd13.prod.outlook.com <mailto:MW3PR13MB39932F4647A5CB0D3773C398B2C40 at MW3PR13MB3993.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <mailto:MW3PR13MB39932F4647A5CB0D3773C398B2C40 at MW3PR13MB3993.namprd13.prod.outlook.com <mailto:MW3PR13MB39932F4647A5CB0D3773C398B2C40 at MW3PR13MB3993.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> >>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Voltaire again ? As far as his notion of government taking money from one class and giving to another, as a non-landlord, I see my money going to the pockets of landlords. I fund governmental benefits with my taxes. Those benefits are paid to landlords for rent. Generally, rent paid to landlords by those on government benefits is a disproportionately high percentage of their income. Voltaire would likely conclude the landlords are the ones benefitting from this governmental transfer.
Perhaps the moratorium suspends this transfer to landlords to allow my taxes to temporarily fund pandemic relief.
Andrew Hay
Hay & Swann PLLC
201 S. 34th St.
Tacoma, WA 98418
www.washingtonlaw.net <http://www.washingtonlaw.net> <http://www.washingtonlaw.net/>
andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> ><mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> >>
253.272.2400 (w)
253.377.3085 (c)
THIS IS A CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION AND IS INTENDED FOR THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT ONLY. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS COMMUNICATION IN ERROR, PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER IMMEDIATELY AND DESTROY ALL COPIES
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >] On Behalf Of K. Garl Long
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 1:34 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv; Rob Rowley
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
It is not inequality which is the real misfortune, it is dependence. Voltaire again.
On 12/17/2020 11:25 AM, Rob Rowley wrote:
In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as possible from one class of citizens to give to another. Voltaire.
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> On Behalf Of Chris B
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:59 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
I just entered into an agreement to sell 4 of my 12 rental homes as a package. All will be town down and replaced with McMansions. These are nice homes that I am proud to own, two of which have tenants in them for more than 10 years. While all my tenants are current in their rent, I no longer wish to be in the rental housing business in a state that is clearly trying to kill that business.
As they say, it is ?a feature, not a bug.?
Chris Benis
Hecker, Wakefield & Feilberg, P.S.
321 First Avenue West, Seattle, WA 98119
206.447-1900 office ? 206.447.9075 fax ? www. heckerwakefield.com <http://heckerwakefield.com> <http://heckerwakefield.com <http://heckerwakefield.com/> <http://heckerwakefield.com/>>
This message contains information that may be CONFIDENTIAL AND PRIVILEGED. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail chrisb at heckerwakefield.com <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com> <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com> ><mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com> <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com> >>, and delete this message. Thank you very much.
To comply with recent IRS rules, we must inform you that this message, if it contains advice relating to federal taxes, was not intended or written to be used, and it cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under federal tax law. Under recent IRS rules, a taxpayer may rely on professional advice to avoid federal tax penalties only if that advice is reflected in a comprehensive tax opinion that conforms to stringent requirements under federal law. Please contact me if you would like to discuss our preparation of an opinion that conforms to these new rules.
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> On Behalf Of Rani K. Sampson
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:51 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
The long-term consequences of forcing landlords to absorb large financial losses are predictable: landlords will liquidate their real estate investments (they?ll sell). Tenants will have much less housing to choose from. Rental houses will be incredibly hard to find. The void might be filled by corporate landlords building apartments or government landlords building projects.
This is very bad for tenants, long term. The loss of rental housing will affect all of us.
Rani K. Sampson
Overcast Law Offices | Attorney
23 S Wenatchee Ave #320, Wenatchee WA 98801 | (509) 663-5588 x 6
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> On Behalf Of Kary Krismer
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:37 AM
To: wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
You're generalizing. The moratorium protects an entire class regardless of their need, at the expense of another class, regardless of their need. If it were based on economics I'd have little problem with it, but it's not. Beyond that though, I'm worried about the long term adverse effects on those who actually need the protection. The moratorium may have given them a false sense of security and lead them to make bad decisions. Back when I practiced law I did primarily debtor bankruptcy and the moratorium is likely causing people to make decisions that no competent financial planner would ever advise them to make.
Also, you can't even assume someone who rents cannot afford to own. They may just not wish to own for many different reasons.
Kary L. Krismer
206 723-2148
On 12/17/2020 10:20 AM, Andrew Hay wrote:
I will take the pro moratorium position. Donning my suit of armor at the same time?..
This is a time of great economic pain due to a pandemic unequaled by any health crisis in 100 years. The moratoriums are a policy protecting the most vulnerable people in the population as a whole ? renters. As a group they are either poor or old or both. They are people who can?t afford homes due to lack of wealth.
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WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 14:08:20 -0800
From: "K. Garl Long" <Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> >>
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
Message-ID: <5f273c5b-df4d-8a0c-49f7-4e446c524ab1 at longlaw.biz <mailto:5f273c5b-df4d-8a0c-49f7-4e446c524ab1 at longlaw.biz> <mailto:5f273c5b-df4d-8a0c-49f7-4e446c524ab1 at longlaw.biz <mailto:5f273c5b-df4d-8a0c-49f7-4e446c524ab1 at longlaw.biz> >>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
If you choose to put money that you have earned into the pocket of the
owner of a dwelling, in exchange for the privilege of living there, it
is called a contract.
If the government expropriates the dwelling from the owner so that you
can live there without paying, it is theft. You may recall that the
Intolerable Acts included such expropriation of dwellings.? This is what
our founders fought against, and which we now meekly accept.
KGL
On 12/17/2020 01:55 PM, Andrew Hay wrote:
>
> Voltaire again ? As far as his notion of government taking money from
> one class and giving to another, as a non-landlord, I see my money
> going to ?the pockets of landlords.? I fund governmental benefits with
> my taxes.? Those benefits are paid to landlords for rent.? Generally,
> rent paid to landlords by those on government benefits is a
> disproportionately high percentage of their income. Voltaire would
> likely conclude the landlords are the ones benefitting from this
> governmental transfer.
>
> Perhaps the moratorium suspends this transfer to landlords to allow my
> taxes to temporarily fund pandemic relief.
>
> *Andrew Hay*
>
> Hay & Swann PLLC
>
> 201 S. 34^th St.
>
> Tacoma, WA 98418
>
> /www.washingtonlaw.net <http://www.washingtonlaw.net> <http://www.washingtonlaw.net/>/
>
> /andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> > <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> >>/
>
> 253.272.2400 (w)
>
> 253.377.3085 (c)
>
> THIS IS A CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION AND IS INTENDED FOR THE
> DESIGNATED RECIPIENT ONLY.? IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS COMMUNICATION IN
> ERROR, PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER IMMEDIATELY AND DESTROY ALL COPIES
>
> *From:*wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >] *On Behalf Of *K. Garl Long
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 1:34 PM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv; Rob Rowley
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
> /It is not inequality which is the real misfortune, it is dependence.
> /Voltaire again.
>
> On 12/17/2020 11:25 AM, Rob Rowley wrote:
>
> In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money
> as possible from one class of citizens to give to another.? Voltaire.
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> *On Behalf Of *Chris B
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:59 AM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
> I just entered into an agreement to sell 4 of my 12 rental homes
> as a package.? All will be town down and replaced with McMansions.
> These are nice homes that I am proud to own, two of which have
> tenants in them for more than 10 years.? While all my tenants are
> current in their rent, I no longer wish to be in the rental
> housing business in a state that is clearly trying to kill that
> business.
>
> As they say, it is ?a feature, not a bug.?
>
> Chris Benis
>
> Hecker, Wakefield & Feilberg, P.S.
>
> 321 First Avenue West, Seattle, WA? 98119
>
> 206.447-1900 office ? 206.447.9075 fax ? www. heckerwakefield.com <http://heckerwakefield.com>
> <http://heckerwakefield.com <http://heckerwakefield.com/> <http://heckerwakefield.com/>>
>
> This message contains information that may be CONFIDENTIAL AND
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> anyone the message or any information contained in the message.?
> If you have received the message in error, please advise the
> sender by reply e-mail chrisb at heckerwakefield.com <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com> <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com> >
> <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com> <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com> >>, and delete this message.
> Thank you very much.
>
> To comply with recent IRS rules, we must inform you that this
> message, if it contains advice relating to federal taxes, was not
> intended or written to be used, and it cannot be used, for the
> purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under federal
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> you would like to discuss our preparation of an opinion that
> conforms to these new rules.
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> *On Behalf Of *Rani K.
> Sampson
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:51 AM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
> The long-term consequences of forcing landlords to absorb large
> financial losses are predictable:? landlords will liquidate their
> real estate investments (they?ll sell).? Tenants will have much
> less housing to choose from.? Rental houses will be incredibly
> hard to find.? The void might be filled by corporate landlords
> building apartments or government landlords building projects.
>
> This is very bad for tenants, long term.? The loss of rental
> housing will affect all of us.
>
> *Rani K. Sampson*
>
> Overcast Law Offices | Attorney
>
> 23 S Wenatchee Ave #320, Wenatchee WA 98801 | (509) 663-5588 x 6
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> *On Behalf Of *Kary
> Krismer
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:37 AM
> *To:* wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> > <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
> You're generalizing.? The moratorium protects an entire class
> regardless of their need, at the expense of another class,
> regardless of their need.? If it were based on economics I'd have
> little problem with it, but it's not. Beyond that though, I'm
> worried about the long term adverse effects on those who actually
> need the protection.? The moratorium may have given them a false
> sense of security and lead them to make bad decisions.? Back when
> I practiced law I did primarily debtor bankruptcy and the
> moratorium is likely causing people to make decisions that no
> competent financial planner would ever advise them to make.
>
> Also, you can't even assume someone who rents cannot afford to
> own.? They may just not wish to own for many different reasons.
>
> Kary L. Krismer
>
> 206 723-2148
>
> On 12/17/2020 10:20 AM, Andrew Hay wrote:
>
> I will take the pro moratorium position.? Donning my suit of
> armor at the same time?..
>
> This is a time of great economic pain due to a pandemic
> unequaled by any health crisis in 100 years.? The moratoriums
> are a policy protecting the most vulnerable people in the
> population as a whole ? renters.? As a group they are either
> poor or old or both.? They are people who can?t afford homes
> due to lack of wealth.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Image removed by sender. Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
>
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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>
>
>
>
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> WSBARP mailing list
>
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com> > <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
>
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
>
>
>
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 14:13:12 -0800
From: Roger Moss <ram at rinconres.org <mailto:ram at rinconres.org> <mailto:ram at rinconres.org <mailto:ram at rinconres.org> >>
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>, "Adrienne
Keith Wills <akwills at willslawfirm.com <mailto:akwills at willslawfirm.com> <mailto:akwills at willslawfirm.com <mailto:akwills at willslawfirm.com> >>" <adr-section at list.wsba.org <mailto:adr-section at list.wsba.org> <mailto:adr-section at list.wsba.org <mailto:adr-section at list.wsba.org> >>
Subject: [WSBARP] January 6, 2021 12:00pm PST Open Forum on Pending
Eviction Legislation
Message-ID: <CDDCA0C2-BE63-47C1-8274-9967366E236F at rinconres.org <mailto:CDDCA0C2-BE63-47C1-8274-9967366E236F at rinconres.org> <mailto:CDDCA0C2-BE63-47C1-8274-9967366E236F at rinconres.org <mailto:CDDCA0C2-BE63-47C1-8274-9967366E236F at rinconres.org> >>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The ADR Section executive committee will be hosting an open forum for members of the RPPT and ADR sections to discuss issues of concern about eviction legislation under review at this time. There are many issues to raise with policy makers that call for an organized effort among our respective memberships.
The forum will take place at 1200 PST Wednesday January 6 and will accommodate up to 300 participants. In addition to identifying major issues for discussion, we will plan additional forums at different times.
Register for the meeting and get Zoom links here: https://zoom.us/meeting/register/tJwrdOivrj8tHtUdh4DB8pAQ4gd6cmvSWxxz <https://zoom.us/meeting/register/tJwrdOivrj8tHtUdh4DB8pAQ4gd6cmvSWxxz> <https://zoom.us/meeting/register/tJwrdOivrj8tHtUdh4DB8pAQ4gd6cmvSWxxz> <>
Roger A. Moss
Mediation Counsel
Rincon Resolutions LLC
206.790.1971 Seattle
415.371.9724 San Francisco
RinconRes.org <http://RinconRes.org>
Confidential Correspondence
The information in this e-mail (including attachments, if any) is considered privileged and/or confidential and is intended only for the recipient(s) listed above. Any review, use, disclosure, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited except by or on behalf of the intended recipient. If you have received this email in error, please notify me immediately by reply email, delete this email, and do not disclose its contents to anyone.
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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 22:35:16 +0000
From: Eric Nelsen <eric at sayrelawoffices.com <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com> <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com> >>
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
Message-ID:
<098D0346993E6A48B0D5F184C0AB002E6B4829 at SBS2011.sayrelawoffices.local <mailto:098D0346993E6A48B0D5F184C0AB002E6B4829 at SBS2011.sayrelawoffices.local> <mailto:098D0346993E6A48B0D5F184C0AB002E6B4829 at SBS2011.sayrelawoffices.local <mailto:098D0346993E6A48B0D5F184C0AB002E6B4829 at SBS2011.sayrelawoffices.local> >>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
We are all generalizing, whether arguing in favor of tenants or landlords. Policy decisions are generally made by generalizations, after all. The devil is always in the details.
Little of the current situation is a policy outcome I want or agree with; the moratorium was imposed hastily in an emergency that has now consumed our country for almost a year, with every tool of governance forced to run with one foot in a bucket because of gross incompetence and malicious indifference at the federal level coupled with insufficient local resources. It never should have taken this long, too many people have died, too many are going to die still, and governmental capacity to act is still badly crippled. Governor Inslee was given a surgical problem, then blindfolded and handed a sledgehammer and told to take care of it. So we got a sledgehammer solution for a surgical problem.
I do agree that there should be a policy-level allocation of relief to mom-and-pop landlords to help ease the economic burden they have taken on. Personally, I would advocate for limiting relief to landlords who are individuals and closely-held corporate entities (say, max 4 owners of the entity, with additional rules to prevent gaming this limit by having interlocking ownership or control), who own no more than six rental units total, and whose rental revenue amounts to 50% or more of their total personal income. That helps individual small-time landlords that have been front and center of the argument for landlord relief, and avoids benefitting the corporations who typically hoover up the vast majority of ?small business? relief. I would also condition relief on release of tenant debt in some fashion. (Obviously those limitations are off the top of my head and could be tweaked.) The idea is, if you?re a bigger landlord than the described threshold, then you?re really an in!
vestor and you don?t get a bailout.
The ?moral hazard? argument applies both ways. Personally I worry about the constant coddling of property by our legal system, to the point where investors of all kinds, real estate, stock, and whatever, have had literally decades to develop a false sense of security by being constantly bailed out by the government from the natural consequences of investor-class and banker-class recklessness. And just now, there are critical policy reasons to prioritize human life and shelter (that is, life and liberty interests) over profits (property). So that false sense of security is getting zinged and property owners are outraged, forgetting that for themselves, their life and liberty interests are basically already well-provided for. No one owning a rental property is going without a roof over their own head.
Also, a money/contract relationship is not the same as a social human relationship. There is no moral obligation to pay money, because morality arises from social relationships, and money is not that?or at least that?s how we?ve set it up over the centuries. If a landlord?s sole ?relationship? to a tenant is based on the rent derived from providing them shelter, then the relationship is about money. Don?t expect a tenant to make an allocation of their resources that benefits the landlord more than they absolutely must. That is, after all, the basis of all ?laissez faire? and ?invisible hand? preaching: everybody is a self-interested money-calculator and morality based on non-monetary factors is irrelevant. I personally think laissez-faire and the invisible hand is garbage, but if property-owners want to talk in those terms, then they shouldn?t squawk when someone else behaves the same way.
I have pushed back before about the righteous tone on the listserv, about tenants spending their money on goodies and giving the landlord the finger. But if I have $1000 to spend and the choice is between taking care of myself or paying money to a landlord when the law isn?t going to force me to, and my relationship to the landlord is based purely on money, then hell yes, I?m going to spend it on myself. And please note, that is the proper response under invisible hand theories: do the self-interested thing and it will all balance out: the landlord is hurt but Netflix benefits.
But if the landlord is my friend, or has some other social claim to my loyalty, I?m far more likely to pay some rent because I will feel a moral obligation. Contrariwise, if the landlord is my friend, the landlord is far more likely to understand and sympathize if I am genuinely struggling financially, and we have a social connection that opens the possibility of discussing what each of us needs to survive and finding a cooperative solution that gets us through the crisis together.
Sincerely,
Eric
Eric C. Nelsen
Sayre Law Offices, PLLC
1417 31st Ave South
Seattle WA 98144-3909
206-625-0092
eric at sayrelawoffices.com <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com> <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com> ><mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com> <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com> >>
Covid-19 Update - All attorneys are working remotely during regular business hours and are available via email and by phone. Videoconferencing also is available. Signing of estate planning documents can be completed and will be handled on a case-by-case basis. Please direct mail and deliveries to the Seattle office.
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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 22:40:55 +0000
From: Christy M <talk2much84 at msn.com <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com> <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com <mailto:talk2much84 at msn.com> >>
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
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I, for one, do not meekly accept; I vehemently support.
-------- Original message --------
From: "K. Garl Long" <Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> >>
Date: 12/17/20 2:15 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
If you choose to put money that you have earned into the pocket of the owner of a dwelling, in exchange for the privilege of living there, it is called a contract.
If the government expropriates the dwelling from the owner so that you can live there without paying, it is theft. You may recall that the Intolerable Acts included such expropriation of dwellings. This is what our founders fought against, and which we now meekly accept.
KGL
On 12/17/2020 01:55 PM, Andrew Hay wrote:
Voltaire again ? As far as his notion of government taking money from one class and giving to another, as a non-landlord, I see my money going to the pockets of landlords. I fund governmental benefits with my taxes. Those benefits are paid to landlords for rent. Generally, rent paid to landlords by those on government benefits is a disproportionately high percentage of their income. Voltaire would likely conclude the landlords are the ones benefitting from this governmental transfer.
Perhaps the moratorium suspends this transfer to landlords to allow my taxes to temporarily fund pandemic relief.
Andrew Hay
Hay & Swann PLLC
201 S. 34th St.
Tacoma, WA 98418
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From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >] On Behalf Of K. Garl Long
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 1:34 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv; Rob Rowley
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
It is not inequality which is the real misfortune, it is dependence. Voltaire again.
On 12/17/2020 11:25 AM, Rob Rowley wrote:
In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as possible from one class of citizens to give to another. Voltaire.
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> On Behalf Of Chris B
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:59 AM
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Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
I just entered into an agreement to sell 4 of my 12 rental homes as a package. All will be town down and replaced with McMansions. These are nice homes that I am proud to own, two of which have tenants in them for more than 10 years. While all my tenants are current in their rent, I no longer wish to be in the rental housing business in a state that is clearly trying to kill that business.
As they say, it is ?a feature, not a bug.?
Chris Benis
Hecker, Wakefield & Feilberg, P.S.
321 First Avenue West, Seattle, WA 98119
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From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> On Behalf Of Rani K. Sampson
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:51 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
The long-term consequences of forcing landlords to absorb large financial losses are predictable: landlords will liquidate their real estate investments (they?ll sell). Tenants will have much less housing to choose from. Rental houses will be incredibly hard to find. The void might be filled by corporate landlords building apartments or government landlords building projects.
This is very bad for tenants, long term. The loss of rental housing will affect all of us.
Rani K. Sampson
Overcast Law Offices | Attorney
23 S Wenatchee Ave #320, Wenatchee WA 98801 | (509) 663-5588 x 6
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> On Behalf Of Kary Krismer
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:37 AM
To: wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
You're generalizing. The moratorium protects an entire class regardless of their need, at the expense of another class, regardless of their need. If it were based on economics I'd have little problem with it, but it's not. Beyond that though, I'm worried about the long term adverse effects on those who actually need the protection. The moratorium may have given them a false sense of security and lead them to make bad decisions. Back when I practiced law I did primarily debtor bankruptcy and the moratorium is likely causing people to make decisions that no competent financial planner would ever advise them to make.
Also, you can't even assume someone who rents cannot afford to own. They may just not wish to own for many different reasons.
Kary L. Krismer
206 723-2148
On 12/17/2020 10:20 AM, Andrew Hay wrote:
I will take the pro moratorium position. Donning my suit of armor at the same time?..
This is a time of great economic pain due to a pandemic unequaled by any health crisis in 100 years. The moratoriums are a policy protecting the most vulnerable people in the population as a whole ? renters. As a group they are either poor or old or both. They are people who can?t afford homes due to lack of wealth.
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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 22:59:26 +0000
From: Stephen Brandli <steve at brandlilaw.com <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com> <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com> >>
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
Message-ID:
<MWHPR19MB1088103D62586DB9EE74F5DDC0C40 at MWHPR19MB1088.namprd19.prod.outlook.com <mailto:MWHPR19MB1088103D62586DB9EE74F5DDC0C40 at MWHPR19MB1088.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <mailto:MWHPR19MB1088103D62586DB9EE74F5DDC0C40 at MWHPR19MB1088.namprd19.prod.outlook.com <mailto:MWHPR19MB1088103D62586DB9EE74F5DDC0C40 at MWHPR19MB1088.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> >>
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We live in a society that accepts the benevolence of monetary transfers from the fortunate to the less fortunate, mostly in the form of unequal taxation. It seems to me that Inslee's goal is not such a transfer but rather avoidance of a humanitarian crisis caused by the economic impacts of the pandemic. The goal is not to benefit tenants financially by burdening landlords financially, or at least it shouldn't be. The goal is to prevent homelessness.
The current proclamation, and the proposed statute, extend well beyond this goal. This is the problem.
Steve
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> On Behalf Of Christy M
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 2:41 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
I, for one, do not meekly accept; I vehemently support.
-------- Original message --------
From: "K. Garl Long" <Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> ><mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> >>>
Date: 12/17/20 2:15 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
If you choose to put money that you have earned into the pocket of the owner of a dwelling, in exchange for the privilege of living there, it is called a contract.
If the government expropriates the dwelling from the owner so that you can live there without paying, it is theft. You may recall that the Intolerable Acts included such expropriation of dwellings. This is what our founders fought against, and which we now meekly accept.
KGL
On 12/17/2020 01:55 PM, Andrew Hay wrote:
Voltaire again ... As far as his notion of government taking money from one class and giving to another, as a non-landlord, I see my money going to the pockets of landlords. I fund governmental benefits with my taxes. Those benefits are paid to landlords for rent. Generally, rent paid to landlords by those on government benefits is a disproportionately high percentage of their income. Voltaire would likely conclude the landlords are the ones benefitting from this governmental transfer.
Perhaps the moratorium suspends this transfer to landlords to allow my taxes to temporarily fund pandemic relief.
Andrew Hay
Hay & Swann PLLC
201 S. 34th St.
Tacoma, WA 98418
www.washingtonlaw.net <http://www.washingtonlaw.net> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonlaw.net%2F <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonlaw.net%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C3ad32d5fc4764794e46e08d8a2d935b8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438401075055698%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=DtUXJVBQr9jrfAcs0VP8AjpgaqzovLn11GNixl6v0Ug%3D&reserved=0> &data=04%7C01%7C%7C3ad32d5fc4764794e46e08d8a2d935b8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438401075055698%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=DtUXJVBQr9jrfAcs0VP8AjpgaqzovLn11GNixl6v0Ug%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.washingtonlaw.net%252F <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.washingtonlaw.net%252F&data=!
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andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> ><mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> >>
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THIS IS A CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION AND IS INTENDED FOR THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT ONLY. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS COMMUNICATION IN ERROR, PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER IMMEDIATELY AND DESTROY ALL COPIES
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >] On Behalf Of K. Garl Long
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 1:34 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv; Rob Rowley
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
It is not inequality which is the real misfortune, it is dependence. Voltaire again.
On 12/17/2020 11:25 AM, Rob Rowley wrote:
In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as possible from one class of citizens to give to another. Voltaire.
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> On Behalf Of Chris B
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:59 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
I just entered into an agreement to sell 4 of my 12 rental homes as a package. All will be town down and replaced with McMansions. These are nice homes that I am proud to own, two of which have tenants in them for more than 10 years. While all my tenants are current in their rent, I no longer wish to be in the rental housing business in a state that is clearly trying to kill that business.
As they say, it is "a feature, not a bug."
Chris Benis
Hecker, Wakefield & Feilberg, P.S.
321 First Avenue West, Seattle, WA 98119
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From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> On Behalf Of Rani K. Sampson
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:51 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
The long-term consequences of forcing landlords to absorb large financial losses are predictable: landlords will liquidate their real estate investments (they'll sell). Tenants will have much less housing to choose from. Rental houses will be incredibly hard to find. The void might be filled by corporate landlords building apartments or government landlords building projects.
This is very bad for tenants, long term. The loss of rental housing will affect all of us.
Rani K. Sampson
Overcast Law Offices | Attorney
23 S Wenatchee Ave #320, Wenatchee WA 98801 | (509) 663-5588 x 6
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> On Behalf Of Kary Krismer
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:37 AM
To: wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
You're generalizing. The moratorium protects an entire class regardless of their need, at the expense of another class, regardless of their need. If it were based on economics I'd have little problem with it, but it's not. Beyond that though, I'm worried about the long term adverse effects on those who actually need the protection. The moratorium may have given them a false sense of security and lead them to make bad decisions. Back when I practiced law I did primarily debtor bankruptcy and the moratorium is likely causing people to make decisions that no competent financial planner would ever advise them to make.
Also, you can't even assume someone who rents cannot afford to own. They may just not wish to own for many different reasons.
Kary L. Krismer
206 723-2148
On 12/17/2020 10:20 AM, Andrew Hay wrote:
I will take the pro moratorium position. Donning my suit of armor at the same time.....
This is a time of great economic pain due to a pandemic unequaled by any health crisis in 100 years. The moratoriums are a policy protecting the most vulnerable people in the population as a whole - renters. As a group they are either poor or old or both. They are people who can't afford homes due to lack of wealth.
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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 15:00:40 -0800
From: "K. Garl Long" <Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> >>
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>, Eric
Nelsen <eric at sayrelawoffices.com <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com> <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
Message-ID: <36af8523-f24a-7cc1-8d62-189562404896 at longlaw.biz <mailto:36af8523-f24a-7cc1-8d62-189562404896 at longlaw.biz> <mailto:36af8523-f24a-7cc1-8d62-189562404896 at longlaw.biz <mailto:36af8523-f24a-7cc1-8d62-189562404896 at longlaw.biz> >>
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The government should not favor one group or another. It should supply a
secure physical environment and a consistent and unbiased set of rules.?
Property owners are not asking for more government, or for government
funds, they just want government to stop making the problem worse.? As
you suggest in your last paragraph, reasonable owners and responsible
tenants can work out issues between them; without government money or
mandates.
KGL
On 12/17/2020 02:35 PM, Eric Nelsen wrote:
>
> We are all generalizing, whether arguing in favor of tenants or
> landlords. Policy decisions are generally made by generalizations,
> after all. The devil is always in the details.
>
> Little of the current situation is a policy outcome I want or agree
> with; the moratorium was imposed hastily in an emergency that has now
> consumed our country for almost a year, with every tool of governance
> forced to run with one foot in a bucket because of gross incompetence
> and malicious indifference at the federal level coupled with
> insufficient local resources. It never should have taken this long,
> too many people have died, too many are going to die still, and
> governmental capacity to act is still badly crippled. Governor Inslee
> was given a surgical problem, then blindfolded and handed a
> sledgehammer and told to take care of it. So we got a sledgehammer
> solution for a surgical problem.
>
> I do agree that there should be a policy-level allocation of relief to
> mom-and-pop landlords to help ease the economic burden they have taken
> on. Personally, I would advocate for limiting relief to landlords who
> are individuals and closely-held corporate entities (say, max 4 owners
> of the entity, with additional rules to prevent gaming this limit by
> having interlocking ownership or control), who own no more than six
> rental units total, and whose rental revenue amounts to 50% or more of
> their total personal income. That helps individual small-time
> landlords that have been front and center of the argument for landlord
> relief, and avoids benefitting the corporations who typically hoover
> up the vast majority of ?small business? relief. I would also
> condition relief on release of tenant debt in some fashion. (Obviously
> those limitations are off the top of my head and could be tweaked.)
> The idea is, if you?re a bigger landlord than the described threshold,
> then you?re really an investor and you don?t get a bailout.
>
> The ?moral hazard? argument applies both ways. Personally I worry
> about the constant coddling of property by our legal system, to the
> point where investors of all kinds, real estate, stock, and whatever,
> have had literally /decades/ to develop a false sense of security by
> being constantly bailed out by the government from the natural
> consequences of investor-class and banker-class recklessness. And just
> now, there are critical policy reasons to prioritize human life and
> shelter (that is, life and liberty interests) over profits (property).
> So that false sense of security is getting zinged and property owners
> are outraged, forgetting that for themselves, their life and liberty
> interests are basically already well-provided for. No one owning a
> rental property is going without a roof over their own head.
>
> Also, a money/contract relationship is not the same as a social human
> relationship. There is no /moral/ obligation to pay money, because
> morality arises from social relationships, and money is not that?or at
> least that?s how we?ve set it up over the centuries. If a landlord?s
> sole ?relationship? to a tenant is based on the rent derived from
> providing them shelter, then the relationship is about money. Don?t
> expect a tenant to make an allocation of their resources that benefits
> the landlord more than they absolutely must. That is, after all, the
> basis of all ?laissez faire? and ?invisible hand? preaching: everybody
> is a self-interested money-calculator and morality based on
> non-monetary factors is irrelevant. I personally think laissez-faire
> and the invisible hand is garbage, but if property-owners want to talk
> in those terms, then they shouldn?t squawk when someone else behaves
> the same way.
>
> I have pushed back before about the righteous tone on the listserv,
> about tenants spending their money on goodies and giving the landlord
> the finger. But if I have $1000 to spend and the choice is between
> taking care of myself or paying money to a landlord when the law isn?t
> going to force me to, and my relationship to the landlord is based
> purely on money, then hell yes, I?m going to spend it on myself. And
> please note, that is the /proper/ response under invisible hand
> theories: do the self-interested thing and it will all balance out:
> the landlord is hurt but Netflix benefits.
>
> But if the landlord is my friend, or has some other /social/ claim to
> my loyalty, I?m far more likely to pay some rent because I will feel a
> moral obligation. Contrariwise, if the landlord is my friend, the
> landlord is far more likely to understand and sympathize if I am
> genuinely struggling financially, and we have a social connection that
> opens the possibility of discussing what each of us needs to survive
> and finding a cooperative solution that gets us through the crisis
> /together/.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Eric
>
> Eric C. Nelsen
>
> Sayre Law Offices, PLLC
>
> 1417 31st Ave South
>
> Seattle WA 98144-3909
>
> 206-625-0092
>
> eric at sayrelawoffices.com <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com> <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com> > <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com> <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com> >>
>
> *Covid-19 Update - *All attorneys are working remotely during regular
> business hours and are available via email and by phone.
> Videoconferencing also is available. Signing of estate planning
> documents can be completed and will be handled on a case-by-case
> basis. Please direct mail and deliveries to the Seattle office.
>
>
>
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 15:04:56 -0800
From: Marvin Benson <marvinbensonlaw at gmail.com <mailto:marvinbensonlaw at gmail.com> <mailto:marvinbensonlaw at gmail.com <mailto:marvinbensonlaw at gmail.com> >>
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
Message-ID:
<CACodssrg6JNNk3wG9+thXvxw_8Tr4EPGukPoML4xdFH1-XxAxg at mail.gmail.com <mailto:thXvxw_8Tr4EPGukPoML4xdFH1-XxAxg at mail.gmail.com> <mailto:thXvxw_8Tr4EPGukPoML4xdFH1-XxAxg at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
to all
No doubt some landlords are hurting. No doubt some of the complaining
landlords have little to complain about.
The tenant who is behind on the rent still owes the rent. The tenant who
is behind on his rent is only delaying the inevitable. Unless I am missing
something, I would advise my clients to pay their rent.
Marvin Benson
On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 10:53 AM K. Garl Long <Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> >> wrote:
> So, all renters are pour and exploited, and all owners are rich greedy
> exploiters. Like the renter who told me how he appreciated renting my
> asset; knowing the market rental rate resulted in an extremely low rate of
> return on my fixed asset. Or the owner facing the failure of his business,
> and loss of his own home, because he is required to pay the housing costs
> of his tenants.
>
> The seizure of private assets from free market "exploiters" to fund
> government social policy always increases the power of government, and
> diminishes the liberty of citizens; it unavoidably foments societal
> disintegration. Small rental property owners, the ones most flexible with,
> and appreciative of, their tenants, are leaving the market as quickly as
> they can. Tenants will be left to the true exploiters, government, and
> corporate tenements.
>
> K. Garl Long
>
> On 12/17/2020 10:20 AM, Andrew Hay wrote:
>
> I will take the pro moratorium position. Donning my suit of armor at the
> same time?..
>
>
>
> This is a time of great economic pain due to a pandemic unequaled by any
> health crisis in 100 years. The moratoriums are a policy protecting the
> most vulnerable people in the population as a whole ? renters. As a group
> they are either poor or old or both. They are people who can?t afford
> homes due to lack of wealth.
>
>
>
> There may be a limited number of seeming injustices to landlords caused by
> the moratorium, but the harm to vast numbers of renters who typically live
> paycheck to paycheck ? or social security check to social security check ?
> would be much greater.
>
>
>
> This graph shows the wealth disparity between those who own homes and
> those who don?t.
>
>
>
> The disparity between corporate landlords and renters would be even more
> ridiculously imbalanced. In a time of crisis, the moratorium policy
> appropriately shifts burdens to those who can better afford it to protect
> the overall stability of the state and the nation.
>
>
>
> *Andrew Hay*
>
> Hay & Swann PLLC
>
> 201 S. 34th St.
>
> Tacoma, WA 98418
>
> *www.washingtonlaw.net <http://www.washingtonlaw.net> <http://www.washingtonlaw.net/>*
>
> *andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> > <andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net> >>*
>
> 253.272.2400 (w)
>
> 253.377.3085 (c)
>
> THIS IS A CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION AND IS INTENDED FOR THE DESIGNATED
> RECIPIENT ONLY. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS COMMUNICATION IN ERROR, PLEASE
> NOTIFY THE SENDER IMMEDIATELY AND DESTROY ALL COPIES
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > [
> mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>] *On Behalf Of *Rani K. Sampson
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 9:48 AM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
>
>
> Washington Landlord Association says that it ?has become a Plaintiff in a
> state lawsuit to stop the madness as well as supporting a Federal lawsuit
> financially with the same goal.? WLA?s Executive Director is Everett
> attorney, Rob Trickler.
>
>
>
> In the meantime, proposed tenant-protections laws for next session can be
> seen here:
>
> *Eviction Reform - Landlord Tenant Protections - Draft - SUMMARY*
> <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=0016xBNrvCGpuqtxj-u0QHd1WcIK79HR0K2nSIcHW4Lhy608EqHJczWUFQciVgluXswrmiFHmIHGoaHvh4lwW2c_gc6kHMx9FZEsnlgjQ7Lt2XWavKBV8bu93YnWEnYeDQjaN0XV90_N3ESQJFK_OQQj8Fhi-pFd0CM2oco7QBhc-VTDqOwr3w8NnmhZZy2Z-PPeETx8qIaQaYn5WDBf4iibczeJYx4eQn9qOL1bn429Kk= <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=0016xBNrvCGpuqtxj-u0QHd1WcIK79HR0K2nSIcHW4Lhy608EqHJczWUFQciVgluXswrmiFHmIHGoaHvh4lwW2c_gc6kHMx9FZEsnlgjQ7Lt2XWavKBV8bu93YnWEnYeDQjaN0XV90_N3ESQJFK_OQQj8Fhi-pFd0CM2oco7QBhc-VTDqOwr3w8NnmhZZy2Z-PPeETx8qIaQaYn5WDBf4iibczeJYx4eQn9qOL1bn429Kk=&c=ibxhavcAX8moKCW_wWGf2myqQgcKPwHVPy2f9DbCcqZKGKwYYUOUhg==&ch=VptldhPJG85Uqv6l5MYzzsb9g1H7Oq1tIl7UXoIoN2CmsegeYA1yBg==> &c=ibxhavcAX8moKCW_wWGf2myqQgcKPwHVPy2f9DbCcqZKGKwYYUOUhg==&ch=VptldhPJG85Uqv6l5MYzzsb9g1H7Oq1tIl7UXoIoN2CmsegeYA1yBg==>
>
> *Eviction Reform - Landlord Tenant Protections - Stakeholder Draft - FULL
> BILL*
> <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=0016xBNrvCGpuqtxj-u0QHd1WcIK79HR0K2nSIcHW4Lhy608EqHJczWUFQciVgluXswmZm2QeOkLsGs-3fnr8wKT8fiCIWNqwkloeJDbMXGGCehK4iOHICy2mRzTJmTdR0QbAd7hPYsWjkL3pHMHzRApeTgPao6KEVcb5v2PpaLhWMt3HHLyKH5tVMvJbeh3dNjaeKv2Qpl2cd7S2S0WjAnmFFInndctYpxbevId-tr024= <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=0016xBNrvCGpuqtxj-u0QHd1WcIK79HR0K2nSIcHW4Lhy608EqHJczWUFQciVgluXswmZm2QeOkLsGs-3fnr8wKT8fiCIWNqwkloeJDbMXGGCehK4iOHICy2mRzTJmTdR0QbAd7hPYsWjkL3pHMHzRApeTgPao6KEVcb5v2PpaLhWMt3HHLyKH5tVMvJbeh3dNjaeKv2Qpl2cd7S2S0WjAnmFFInndctYpxbevId-tr024=&c=ibxhavcAX8moKCW_wWGf2myqQgcKPwHVPy2f9DbCcqZKGKwYYUOUhg==&ch=VptldhPJG85Uqv6l5MYzzsb9g1H7Oq1tIl7UXoIoN2CmsegeYA1yBg==> &c=ibxhavcAX8moKCW_wWGf2myqQgcKPwHVPy2f9DbCcqZKGKwYYUOUhg==&ch=VptldhPJG85Uqv6l5MYzzsb9g1H7Oq1tIl7UXoIoN2CmsegeYA1yBg==>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Rani K. Sampson*
>
> Overcast Law Offices | Attorney
>
> 23 S Wenatchee Ave #320, Wenatchee WA 98801 | (509) 663-5588 x 6
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> *On
> Behalf Of *Rob Rowley
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 15, 2020 11:15 AM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
> <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question
>
>
>
> As a lowly dirt attorney a little bit beyond my pay grade.
>
>
>
> My observation is that regulatory taking and substantive due process for
> landlords is largely dead in Washington state (unless you are a tenant)
> after the Yim I and Yim II (2019) cases. There was an excellent article
> about those cases in the RPPT newsletter.
>
>
>
> Just wait till rent control (aka ?housing stability?) steamrolls through
> not this session but probably the following legislative session.
>
>
>
> What say wiser counsel?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > <
> wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> *On Behalf Of *Jennifer L White
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 15, 2020 10:53 AM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question
>
>
>
> Rob,
>
> I?m curious if any of you LL/T gurus and/or real property litigators are
> considering filing some kind of action or class action on a constitutional
> takings basis? It seems to me that the government has turned private
> landlords into unwilling purveyors of public housing. All of these
> regulations/laws were hastily conceived and handed down by fiat. The result
> has been a tremendous and concentrated loss to private property owners.
> Perhaps it has to play out further? Have to wait to quantify the exact loss
> when the moratoriums end and you work through getting them out under all of
> these onerous ?drag it out? policies benefiting only tenants? We all know
> that deadbeat tenants are never going to pay up even a tiny fraction of
> what they owe. That is but a legal illusion of justice for the property
> owners.
>
>
>
> Jennifer L. White, Esq.
>
>
>
> jen at appletreelaw.com <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com> <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com <mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com> >
>
> PO Box 11037
>
> Yakima, WA 98909
>
> 509.225.9813
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > <
> wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> *On Behalf Of *Rowley, Rob
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 15, 2020 6:49 AM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question
>
>
>
> As I tell my landlord clients we lawyers don't like guaranteeing anything
> but there is one thing I will guarantee is that the Governor will extend
> the moratorium sometime into 2021.
>
>
>
> Also, I suspect that Pres. Biden (once in office) will also extend the
> CDC moratorium which is scheduled to lapse on December 31 which is only for
> nonpayment of rent.
>
>
>
> You also have to look at your local county to see if they are part of the
> Eviction Resolution Program. Spokane County where I am based out of is a
> part of the ERP and eventually once the moratorium is lifted we have to
> participate in the program.
>
>
> http://www.courts.wa.gov/newsinfo/index.cfm?fa=newsinfo.EvictionResolutionProgram
>
>
>
> Also, the upcoming legislative session has a number of bills which will be
> filed which will essentially make it near impossible to evict a for rent
> (or anything) anytime soon (month to month goes away for a while). Who
> knows what actually will pass as law is a different question. Two things
> that you never want to see being made is sausage and law.
>
>
>
> Summary:
>
>
> https://files.constantcontact.com/4d179692501/55a538ca-e731-49eb-a80d-9a7300174631.pdf
>
>
>
> If I'm a betting man I would say the Legislature will pass some very
> tenant friendly provisions tied to the governor lifting the moratorium. In
> other words, let the Legislature take the flak from those unpaid landlords.
>
>
>
> Interesting times we live in.
>
>
>
> Rob Rowley
>
> Spokane
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 9:32 PM Sangeeta Saigal <
> attorney at sangeetasaigal.com <mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com> <mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com <mailto:attorney at sangeetasaigal.com> >> wrote:
>
> Hello Landlord Gurus,
>
>
>
> I understand that there is a moratorium against evictions until December 31
> st.
>
>
>
> According to how I understand the proclamation this moratorium applies to
> tenants who have lost their jobs or source of income related to Covid.
>
>
>
> Question:
>
>
>
> If a residential tenant has not lost their source of income ie. On govt
> assistance and they are not paying the rent does the moratorium against no
> eviction rule apply to them.
>
>
>
> How best to approach such tenant who seems to be taking advantage of the
> moratorium.
>
>
>
> Any advice would be really appreciated.
>
>
>
> Sangeeta
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not
> restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing
> attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and
> others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.]
>
> *Robert R Rowley*
> Attorney & Counselor at Law
> [image: Image removed by sender.] (509) 252-5074 <%28509%29+252-5074> [image:
> Image removed by sender.] (509) 994-1143 <%28509%29+994-1143>
> [image: Image removed by sender.] (509) 928-3084 [image: Image removed
> by sender.] rowleylegal.com <http://rowleylegal.com> <http://www.rowleylegal.com/>
> [image: Image removed by sender.] rob at rowleylegal.com <mailto:rob at rowleylegal.com> <mailto:rob at rowleylegal.com <mailto:rob at rowleylegal.com> >
> Helping You Protect What Matters Most
> [image: Image removed by sender.] <https://www.facebook.com/rowleylegal> [image:
> Image removed by sender.] <https://www.twitter.com/ROBERTRROWLEY>
>
> *Practice concentrated on business, real estate and general legal matters
> in Washington and Idaho. *
>
> NOTICE: The contents of this message and any attachments may be protected
> by the attorney-client privilege, work product doctrine or other applicable
> protections. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this
> message in error, please notify the sender and promptly delete the message.
> Thank you for your assistance. DISCLAIMER: You should recognize that
> responses provided by e-mail means are akin to ordinary telephone or
> face-to-face conversations and do not reflect the level of factual or legal
> inquiry or analysis which would be applied in the case of a formal legal
> opinion. A formal opinion may very well reach a different conclusion.
>
>
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing listWSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.comhttp <mailto:listWSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.comhttp> <mailto:listWSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.comhttp <mailto:listWSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.comhttp> >://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp <http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp>
>
>
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not
> restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing
> attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and
> others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
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------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 15:06:12 -0800
From: "K. Garl Long" <Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> >>
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>, Stephen
Brandli <steve at brandlilaw.com <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com> <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
Message-ID: <88ff2879-0590-1b30-7609-cd8906edad61 at longlaw.biz <mailto:88ff2879-0590-1b30-7609-cd8906edad61 at longlaw.biz> <mailto:88ff2879-0590-1b30-7609-cd8906edad61 at longlaw.biz <mailto:88ff2879-0590-1b30-7609-cd8906edad61 at longlaw.biz> >>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
The cost of all of this "good" social policy is immediately born by
owners that did not cause the problem, and ultimately by tenants who
cannot prevent the problem.? As others have stressed, the future is one
of large entity landlords, and either exorbitant rents, or cramped
undesirable housing re: East Berlin.
KGL
On 12/17/2020 02:59 PM, Stephen Brandli wrote:
>
> We live in a society that accepts the benevolence of monetary
> transfers from the fortunate to the less fortunate, mostly in the form
> of unequal taxation.? It seems to me that Inslee?s goal is not such a
> transfer but rather avoidance of a humanitarian crisis caused by the
> economic impacts of the pandemic.? The goal is not to benefit tenants
> financially by burdening landlords financially, or at least it
> shouldn?t be.? The goal is to prevent homelessness.
>
> The current proclamation, and the proposed statute, extend well beyond
> this goal.? This is the problem.
>
> Steve
>
> *From:*wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> *On Behalf Of *Christy M
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 2:41 PM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
> I, for one, do not meekly accept; I vehemently support.
>
> -------- Original message --------
>
> From: "K. Garl Long" <Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> > <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> >>>
>
> Date: 12/17/20 2:15 PM (GMT-08:00)
>
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
> If you choose to put money that you have earned into the pocket of the
> owner of a dwelling, in exchange for the privilege of living there, it
> is called a contract.
>
> If the government expropriates the dwelling from the owner so that you
> can live there without paying, it is theft. You may recall that the
> Intolerable Acts included such expropriation of dwellings.? This is
> what our founders fought against, and which we now meekly accept.
>
> KGL
>
> On 12/17/2020 01:55 PM, Andrew Hay wrote:
>
> Voltaire again ? As far as his notion of government taking money
> from one class and giving to another, as a non-landlord, I see my
> money going to ?the pockets of landlords.? I fund governmental
> benefits with my taxes.? Those benefits are paid to landlords for
> rent.? Generally, rent paid to landlords by those on government
> benefits is a disproportionately high percentage of their income.?
> Voltaire would likely conclude the landlords are the ones
> benefitting from this governmental transfer.
>
> Perhaps the moratorium suspends this transfer to landlords to
> allow my taxes to temporarily fund pandemic relief.
>
> *Andrew Hay*
>
> Hay & Swann PLLC
>
> 201 S. 34^th St.
>
> Tacoma, WA 98418
>
> /www.washingtonlaw.net <http://www.washingtonlaw.net>
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> *From:*wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >] *On Behalf Of *K. Garl Long
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 1:34 PM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv; Rob Rowley
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
> /It is not inequality which is the real misfortune, it is
> dependence. /Voltaire again.
>
> On 12/17/2020 11:25 AM, Rob Rowley wrote:
>
> In general, the art of government consists of taking as much
> money as possible from one class of citizens to give to
> another.? Voltaire.
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> *On Behalf Of *Chris B
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:59 AM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative
> session
>
> I just entered into an agreement to sell 4 of my 12 rental
> homes as a package.? All will be town down and replaced with
> McMansions. These are nice homes that I am proud to own, two
> of which have tenants in them for more than 10 years.? While
> all my tenants are current in their rent, I no longer wish to
> be in the rental housing business in a state that is clearly
> trying to kill that business.
>
> As they say, it is ?a feature, not a bug.?
>
> Chris Benis
>
> Hecker, Wakefield & Feilberg, P.S.
>
> 321 First Avenue West, Seattle, WA 98119
>
> 206.447-1900 office ? 206.447.9075 fax ? www.
> heckerwakefield.com <http://heckerwakefield.com>
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> advise the sender by reply e-mail chrisb at heckerwakefield.com <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com> <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com> >
> <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com> <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com> >>, and delete this message.
> Thank you very much.
>
> To comply with recent IRS rules, we must inform you that this
> message, if it contains advice relating to federal taxes, was
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> contact me if you would like to discuss our preparation of an
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> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> *On Behalf Of
> *Rani K. Sampson
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:51 AM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative
> session
>
> The long-term consequences of forcing landlords to absorb
> large financial losses are predictable:? landlords will
> liquidate their real estate investments (they?ll sell).?
> Tenants will have much less housing to choose from.? Rental
> houses will be incredibly hard to find.? The void might be
> filled by corporate landlords building apartments or
> government landlords building projects.
>
> This is very bad for tenants, long term.? The loss of rental
> housing will affect all of us.
>
> *Rani K. Sampson*
>
> Overcast Law Offices | Attorney
>
> 23 S Wenatchee Ave #320, Wenatchee WA 98801 | (509) 663-5588 x 6
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> *On Behalf Of
> *Kary Krismer
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:37 AM
> *To:* wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> > <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative
> session
>
> You're generalizing.? The moratorium protects an entire class
> regardless of their need, at the expense of another class,
> regardless of their need.? If it were based on economics I'd
> have little problem with it, but it's not.? Beyond that
> though, I'm worried about the long term adverse effects on
> those who actually need the protection.? The moratorium may
> have given them a false sense of security and lead them to
> make bad decisions.? Back when I practiced law I did primarily
> debtor bankruptcy and the moratorium is likely causing people
> to make decisions that no competent financial planner would
> ever advise them to make.
>
> Also, you can't even assume someone who rents cannot afford to
> own.? They may just not wish to own for many different reasons.
>
> Kary L. Krismer
>
> 206 723-2148
>
> On 12/17/2020 10:20 AM, Andrew Hay wrote:
>
> I will take the pro moratorium position.? Donning my suit
> of armor at the same time?..
>
> This is a time of great economic pain due to a pandemic
> unequaled by any health crisis in 100 years.? The
> moratoriums are a policy protecting the most vulnerable
> people in the population as a whole ? renters.? As a group
> they are either poor or old or both.? They are people who
> can?t afford homes due to lack of wealth.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 15:06:35 -0800
From: Kary Krismer <Krismer at comcast.net <mailto:Krismer at comcast.net> <mailto:Krismer at comcast.net <mailto:Krismer at comcast.net> >>
To: wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
Message-ID: <091e508f-b4c3-072b-dae9-483a2eac2570 at comcast.net <mailto:091e508f-b4c3-072b-dae9-483a2eac2570 at comcast.net> <mailto:091e508f-b4c3-072b-dae9-483a2eac2570 at comcast.net <mailto:091e508f-b4c3-072b-dae9-483a2eac2570 at comcast.net> >>
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On 12/17/2020 2:35 PM, Eric Nelsen wrote:
> I have pushed back before about the righteous tone on the listserv,
> about tenants spending their money on goodies and giving the landlord
> the finger. But if I have $1000 to spend and the choice is between
> taking care of myself or paying money to a landlord when the law isn?t
> going to force me to, and my relationship to the landlord is based
> purely on money, then hell yes, I?m going to spend it on myself. And
> please note, that is the /proper/ response under invisible hand
> theories: do the self-interested thing and it will all balance out:
> the landlord is hurt but Netflix benefits.
>
It's fairly standard advice to people in financial trouble to pay for
food, rent, utilities and if possible car payments before anything
else.? The moratorium offered without any counseling advice turns that
on its head.? And since it doesn't diminish the debt eventually they
will need to deal with the consequences.
But my concern has been for those who could have paid rent but don't?
because of the moratorium.? They will eventually have to deal with a
problem that would not have existed but for government telling them that
it was helping them.? They may very well find themselves dug into a hole
they cannot get out of that would otherwise not have existed.
Kary L. Krismer
206 723-2148
--
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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 23:14:48 +0000
From: Stephen Brandli <steve at brandlilaw.com <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com> <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com> >>
To: "K. Garl Long" <Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> >>, WSBA Real Property Listserv
<wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
Message-ID:
<MWHPR19MB1088F10368B6F2C0E625EC66C0C40 at MWHPR19MB1088.namprd19.prod.outlook.com <mailto:MWHPR19MB1088F10368B6F2C0E625EC66C0C40 at MWHPR19MB1088.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <mailto:MWHPR19MB1088F10368B6F2C0E625EC66C0C40 at MWHPR19MB1088.namprd19.prod.outlook.com <mailto:MWHPR19MB1088F10368B6F2C0E625EC66C0C40 at MWHPR19MB1088.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> >>
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Whatever is the larger housing problem, focusing on that for the purposes of addressing Inslee's proclamation and potential legislation is not productive. One can argue whether Inslee's proclamation was necessary at all. I don't have the data. But it is difficult to argue that, at times, regulation is required to avoid humanitarian crises, even when it is no one's fault.
If the section is to consider advocating on this issue, it would do better recognizing that the legislature is likely to act to avoid a housing crisis and to educate on how to meet this goal without creating more victims. (I don't know if anyone is actually considering advocating at all or whether we are all shouting at the wind.)
Steve
From: K. Garl Long <Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> >>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 3:06 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>; Stephen Brandli <steve at brandlilaw.com <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com> <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com <mailto:steve at brandlilaw.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
The cost of all of this "good" social policy is immediately born by owners that did not cause the problem, and ultimately by tenants who cannot prevent the problem. As others have stressed, the future is one of large entity landlords, and either exorbitant rents, or cramped undesirable housing re: East Berlin.
KGL
On 12/17/2020 02:59 PM, Stephen Brandli wrote:
We live in a society that accepts the benevolence of monetary transfers from the fortunate to the less fortunate, mostly in the form of unequal taxation. It seems to me that Inslee's goal is not such a transfer but rather avoidance of a humanitarian crisis caused by the economic impacts of the pandemic. The goal is not to benefit tenants financially by burdening landlords financially, or at least it shouldn't be. The goal is to prevent homelessness.
The current proclamation, and the proposed statute, extend well beyond this goal. This is the problem.
Steve
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> On Behalf Of Christy M
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 2:41 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
I, for one, do not meekly accept; I vehemently support.
-------- Original message --------
From: "K. Garl Long" <Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> ><mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> >>>
Date: 12/17/20 2:15 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
If you choose to put money that you have earned into the pocket of the owner of a dwelling, in exchange for the privilege of living there, it is called a contract.
If the government expropriates the dwelling from the owner so that you can live there without paying, it is theft. You may recall that the Intolerable Acts included such expropriation of dwellings. This is what our founders fought against, and which we now meekly accept.
KGL
On 12/17/2020 01:55 PM, Andrew Hay wrote:
Voltaire again ... As far as his notion of government taking money from one class and giving to another, as a non-landlord, I see my money going to the pockets of landlords. I fund governmental benefits with my taxes. Those benefits are paid to landlords for rent. Generally, rent paid to landlords by those on government benefits is a disproportionately high percentage of their income. Voltaire would likely conclude the landlords are the ones benefitting from this governmental transfer.
Perhaps the moratorium suspends this transfer to landlords to allow my taxes to temporarily fund pandemic relief.
Andrew Hay
Hay & Swann PLLC
201 S. 34th St.
Tacoma, WA 98418
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From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >] On Behalf Of K. Garl Long
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 1:34 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv; Rob Rowley
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
It is not inequality which is the real misfortune, it is dependence. Voltaire again.
On 12/17/2020 11:25 AM, Rob Rowley wrote:
In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as possible from one class of citizens to give to another. Voltaire.
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> On Behalf Of Chris B
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:59 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
I just entered into an agreement to sell 4 of my 12 rental homes as a package. All will be town down and replaced with McMansions. These are nice homes that I am proud to own, two of which have tenants in them for more than 10 years. While all my tenants are current in their rent, I no longer wish to be in the rental housing business in a state that is clearly trying to kill that business.
As they say, it is "a feature, not a bug."
Chris Benis
Hecker, Wakefield & Feilberg, P.S.
321 First Avenue West, Seattle, WA 98119
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From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> On Behalf Of Rani K. Sampson
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:51 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
The long-term consequences of forcing landlords to absorb large financial losses are predictable: landlords will liquidate their real estate investments (they'll sell). Tenants will have much less housing to choose from. Rental houses will be incredibly hard to find. The void might be filled by corporate landlords building apartments or government landlords building projects.
This is very bad for tenants, long term. The loss of rental housing will affect all of us.
Rani K. Sampson
Overcast Law Offices | Attorney
23 S Wenatchee Ave #320, Wenatchee WA 98801 | (509) 663-5588 x 6
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>> On Behalf Of Kary Krismer
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:37 AM
To: wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> ><mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
You're generalizing. The moratorium protects an entire class regardless of their need, at the expense of another class, regardless of their need. If it were based on economics I'd have little problem with it, but it's not. Beyond that though, I'm worried about the long term adverse effects on those who actually need the protection. The moratorium may have given them a false sense of security and lead them to make bad decisions. Back when I practiced law I did primarily debtor bankruptcy and the moratorium is likely causing people to make decisions that no competent financial planner would ever advise them to make.
Also, you can't even assume someone who rents cannot afford to own. They may just not wish to own for many different reasons.
Kary L. Krismer
206 723-2148
On 12/17/2020 10:20 AM, Andrew Hay wrote:
I will take the pro moratorium position. Donning my suit of armor at the same time.....
This is a time of great economic pain due to a pandemic unequaled by any health crisis in 100 years. The moratoriums are a policy protecting the most vulnerable people in the population as a whole - renters. As a group they are either poor or old or both. They are people who can't afford homes due to lack of wealth.
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