[WSBAPT] WSBAPT Digest, Vol 37, Issue 11

[Sharon Rutberg]

Thanks to all of you who responded on my question about lack of probate affidavits. It was the King County Recorder's Office agent who told me I needed a deed with the affidavit, and it seems clear that's NOT correct. It does appear that the LOP affidavit should be accompanied  by a certified death certificate and REET affidavit showing the tax exemption under WAC 458-61A-202(6)(h) (transfer of community property interest of deceased spouse in real property to surviving spouse who is the sole and rightful heir to the property).


In my case, my client and her husband were married for 75 years and it seems clear that neither ever had any children (and no former spouses). Client is wary of opening estate administration due to possibility of estranged distant relatives coming out of the woodwork - hence her desire not to administer husband's estate and to transfer house into her own RLT and avoid probate at her death.  Also, she plans to have the trust turn around and sell the house before long. In this case, then, it seems okay to proceed without opening estate admin. (If needed down the road, so be it.)


I talked to the title company insuring the current deed, and they told me there would be no change in coverage with simply a transfer to an RLT. At SALE, they would require a lack of probate affidavit on their own form. Nevertheless, it seems cleaner to me to file the DOR version of the lack of probate affidavit now, evidencing the intestate transfer of the real property to the surviving spouse, and only then having her file a deed transferring the house to the trust.


Sharon


Sharon C. Rutberg, Attorney at Law

Salmon Bay Law Group, PLLC

1734 NW Market St.

Seattle, WA 98107

206-735-3177, ext. 2

sharon at salmonbaylaw.com<mailto:sharon at salmonbaylaw.com>

Website: www.salmonbaylaw.com

Washington State Bar #47055

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The contents of this message and any attachments may be protected by the attorney-client privilege, work product doctrine, and/or other applicable protections. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this message in error, please notify the sender and promptly delete the message. Thank you for your assistance.



IRS Circular 230 Disclaimer: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that to the extent this communication contains advice relating to a Federal tax issue, it is not intended or written to be used, and it may not be used, for (i) the purpose of avoiding any penalties that may be imposed on you or any other person or entity under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting or marketing to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.







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Subject: WSBAPT Digest, Vol 37, Issue 11

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Today's Topics:

   1. Commercial renter's insurance problem (Lisa E Schuchman)
   2. Financial POA (Anthony Vivenzio)
   3. Re: Financial POA (Brent Williams-Ruth)
   4. Re: Financial POA (Heather deVrieze)
   5. Re: Inherited mortgage (Eric Nelsen)
   6. Re: Financial POA (Brink, Kerry)
   7. lack of probate affidavit question (Sharon Rutberg)
   8. Re: Financial POA (James Bates)
   9. Re: Financial POA (Anthony Vivenzio)
  10. Re: Financial POA (Mike Winslow)
  11. Re: lack of probate affidavit question (Mike Winslow)
  12. Newport, Oregon (Goffe, Wendy S.)
  13. Re: lack of probate affidavit question (Paul Neumiller)
  14. Re: Financial POA (John McCrady)
  15. Re: Newport, Oregon (Kailei Feeney)
  16. Re: lack of probate affidavit question (Rebecca King)
  17. Re: lack of probate affidavit question (Mike Winslow)
  18. Re: Newport, Oregon (Cyrus Field)
  19. Re: lack of probate affidavit question (John McCrady)
  20. Lack of probate affidavit question (Dalynne Singleton)


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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 20:26:18 +0000
From: Lisa E Schuchman <lisa at lisaschuchman.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Commercial renter's insurance problem
Message-ID:
        <MWHPR1601MB1309EF7C5B5216E580E87ED4D14B0 at MWHPR1601MB1309.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

A client owns a business located in rented property.  He has commercial renter's insurance. Recently a toilet overflowed, resulting in damaged carpeting and a wall in the premises.  The insurance claim was denied because the damaged improvements were made by a prior tenant and not by him.  The insurance company said that the policy covered only improvements made by this insured.

If anyone thinks this is wrong and has experience contesting the insurance company's decision, please let me know for referral.  Thanks.

Lisa E. Schuchman
206-960-4212
www.lisaschuchman.com<http://www.lisaschuchman.com/<http://www.lisaschuchman.com<http://www.lisaschuchman.com/>>

I learn, I give. - Gloria Steinem

NOTE: I do not use encrypted email.  Messages sent to or from my office via email are not secure and may not be protected by attorney-client privilege. This email address is not monitored at all times.  If your matter is urgent, please phone my office during regular business hours.

Any tax advice included in this document and its attachments was not intended or written to be used, and it cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code.
P  Please consider the trees before printing this document

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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 13:45:03 -0700
From: "Anthony Vivenzio" <vivenziolaw at rockisland.com>
To: <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Financial POA
Message-ID:
        <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAALZByoMYm/dGiveHP4mZTTmihAAAEAAAADpmDDmaqYtAnZxWT91dnOUBAAAAAA==@rockisland.com>

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Listmates:

Client giver POA to her son.  Son goes to Key Bank to access Revocable Trust
account with POA that specifically incorporates the statutes (11.125.240,
11.125.300, 11.125.330).  Key Bank essentially says they are a federal bank
and do not have to honor a Washington State POA.  Any thoughts or
suggestions?



Anthony D. Vivenzio,

Attorney and Counselor at Law

PO Box 208

540 Guard Street, Ste. 260

Friday Harbor, WA  98250

(360) 378-6860

 <mailto:vivenziolaw at rockisland.com> vivenziolaw at rockisland.com



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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 13:48:44 -0700
From: Brent Williams-Ruth <brent at bwrconsults.com>
To: "WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Financial POA
Message-ID:
        <CACaE6MCCy26SZ8KUqp6aWSpjCXu27crB2D-j-MwGAtpjd=1c7Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Reply to the List Please.

Thank you,

Brent

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 1:45 PM, Anthony Vivenzio <
vivenziolaw at rockisland.com> wrote:

> Listmates:
>
> Client giver POA to her son.  Son goes to Key Bank to access Revocable
> Trust account with POA that specifically incorporates the statutes
> (11.125.240, 11.125.300, 11.125.330).  Key Bank essentially says they are a
> federal bank and do not have to honor a Washington State POA.  Any thoughts
> or suggestions?
>
>
>
> *Anthony D. Vivenzio*,
>
> Attorney and Counselor at Law
>
> PO Box 208
>
> 540 Guard Street, Ste. 260
>
> Friday Harbor, WA  98250
>
> (360) 378-6860
>
> vivenziolaw at rockisland.com
>
>
>
> *CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION*
> *E-mails from this firm normally contain confidential and privileged
> material, are for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain
> material protected by HIPAA, ERISA or other federal or state law and/or may
> be protected by legal privileges. Use or distribution by an unintended
> recipient is prohibited, and may be a violation of law. If you believe that
> you received this e-mail in error, please do not read this e-mail or any
> attached items. Please delete the e-mail and all attachments, including any
> copies thereof, and inform the sender that you have deleted the e-mail, all
> attachments and any copies thereof. Thank you.*
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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--

*Brent Williams-Ruth*
*Founding Member*

*BWR Consulting, PLLC*

Phone: (425) 830-5134

e-mail <brent at bwrconsults.com> / website <http://www.bwrconsults.com> /
facebook <http://www.facebook.com/bwrconsults>
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 21:06:09 +0000
From: Heather deVrieze <heatherd at westseattlelaw.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Financial POA
Message-ID:
        <CY4PR08MB26952E331EBDB8ED5EAF1028A74B0 at CY4PR08MB2695.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Has the agent provided a sworn statement as described in 11.125.430? That together with a copy of 11.125.200 outlining or highlighting the timeline and reasons that the POA can be refused, and the remedies if it is unreasonably refused, might help.

Heather


Heather S. de Vrieze
Attorney-at-Law
[cid:image001.jpg at 01D013C2.30F35160]
3909 California Avenue SW
Seattle, WA 98116-3705
(206)938-5500
heatherd at westseattlelaw.com<mailto:heatherd at westseattlelaw.com>
www.westseattlelaw.com<http://www.westseattlelaw.com/<http://www.westseattlelaw.com<http://www.westseattlelaw.com/>>
Click here to connect with de Vrieze | Carney on Facebook:   [FB Logo] <https://www.facebook.com/DeVriezeCarney>

CONFIDENTIAL & PRIVILEGED. This e-mail message may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail message and any attachment.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Vivenzio
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 1:45 PM
To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com
Subject: [WSBAPT] Financial POA

Listmates:
Client giver POA to her son.  Son goes to Key Bank to access Revocable Trust account with POA that specifically incorporates the statutes (11.125.240, 11.125.300, 11.125.330).  Key Bank essentially says they are a federal bank and do not have to honor a Washington State POA.  Any thoughts or suggestions?

Anthony D. Vivenzio,
Attorney and Counselor at Law
PO Box 208
540 Guard Street, Ste. 260
Friday Harbor, WA  98250
(360) 378-6860
vivenziolaw at rockisland.com<mailto:vivenziolaw at rockisland.com>

CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
E-mails from this firm normally contain confidential and privileged material, are for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain material protected by HIPAA, ERISA or other federal or state law and/or may be protected by legal privileges. Use or distribution by an unintended recipient is prohibited, and may be a violation of law. If you believe that you received this e-mail in error, please do not read this e-mail or any attached items. Please delete the e-mail and all attachments, including any copies thereof, and inform the sender that you have deleted the e-mail, all attachments and any copies thereof. Thank you.

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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 21:24:17 +0000
From: Eric Nelsen <Eric at sayrelawoffices.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Inherited mortgage
Message-ID:
        <8CF6ADB264BB704BB884B2ED9C1931D4019BF503C1 at SBS2011.SayreLawOffices.local>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

John is probably right, but I vaguely recall an equitable doctrine that forbids a bank from foreclosing when the change in title is "internal" to the co-owners--that is, where the bank has already allowed title to held in names of A and B, a transfer of B's interest to A leaves the bank in no worse position--and therefore foreclosure on such a technical change would be barred in equity.

Same result as if, say, title is held 50/50 A and B, and A transfers a 25% interest resulting in 25/75. Technically it's a transfer in violation of the covenant, but meaningless in terms of hypothetical impairment of the bank's interest.

Sincerely,

Eric

Eric C. Nelsen
SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC
1417 31st Ave South
Seattle WA  98144-3909
phone 206-625-0092
fax 206-625-9040

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of John J. Sullivan
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 8:38 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Inherited mortgage

Lisa:

Yes, but the transfer from decedent was exempt to B&S. I am skeptical that B's subsequent transfer to S is covered by GSG.

John J. Sullivan

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 11, 2017, at 6:06 PM, Lisa E Schuchman <lisa at lisaschuchman.com<mailto:lisa at lisaschuchman.com>> wrote:
John,

That's my big question, too.  As long as S is still there, in theory it shouldn't be a problem. But like I said, some banks haven't even heard of G-St. G, so who knows how they'd handle it.

On Oct 11, 2017, at 6:04 PM, John J. Sullivan <sullaw at comcast.net<mailto:sullaw at comcast.net>> wrote:
Lisa:

If decedent is the only one on the note, lender can only foreclose - cannot go after B or S for deficiency. Usually in these scenarios clients muddle through and as long as payments continue to be timely the lender is satisfied.

I agree with Eric that since B is not being relieved of personal liability there is no consideration to him from S for REET purposes.

I do have one concern though. While Garn-St. Germaine exempts the transfer from decedent to B&S jointly at death, in not sure it exempts the subsequent transfer of B's interest to S by gift for purposes of due on sale. I'd argue there's no trigger because one of the heirs still owns now the whole. But I'm not sure of that one.

John J. Sullivan

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 11, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Eric Nelsen <Eric at sayrelawoffices.com<mailto:Eric at sayrelawoffices.com>> wrote:
Agree with John. Personal obligation to pay a debt is determined by who signed the Promissory Note. A mortgage (Deed of Trust) is just an agreement to let the bank seize the house if the Note isn't paid.

If mother is the only signer of the Note, then B and S have no personal liability for the debt no matter what. Their inherited ownership of the house is subject to the lender's mortgage and right to foreclose for non-payment, so B and S have practical reasons to pay the debt they aren't liable for...but no matter what B and S do with transfers of ownership, they aren't liable to lender on the original debt.

If B gift-quitclaims to S, there is still no need for indemnity that I can see, because B remains free of personal obligation on the Note.

Under that scenario, I think there is no REET due either. See WAC 458-61A-103(2)<http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=458-61A-103>.

Sincerely,

Eric

Eric C. Nelsen
SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC
1417 31st Ave South
Seattle WA  98144-3909
phone 206-625-0092
fax 206-625-9040

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of John J. Sullivan
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 2:41 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Inherited mortgage

So B and S are both mortgagors on the existing mortgage? Or was the mortgage taken out by the decedent they inherited the property from? If the latter, neither is personally obligated on the underlying note.

If the former, B remains liable directly to lender under the promissory note. He would have to secure a release from the lender, which is rarely granted without S refinancing and qualifying separately.

Secure indemnification agreement with second position deed of trust? If brother is relieved of liability at time of transfer there might be consideration for REET purposes.

John J. Sullivan

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 11, 2017, at 2:27 PM, Lisa E Schuchman <lisa at lisaschuchman.com<mailto:lisa at lisaschuchman.com>> wrote:
Sister (S) and brother (B), both adults, inherited a house from their mother on her death.  We?re getting ready to close the probate and transfer title to them.  They understand that they can keep the existing mortgage without additional need to qualify.  But if B later gifts his share of the house to S, can B disentangle himself from the mortgage obligation and leave S fully liable?  I know that Garn-St. Germain wouldn?t apply to that transfer, but since S is already in the place of the mortgagor can B get out of it?  Does anyone have a better suggestion?

Thanks.

Lisa E. Schuchman
206-960-4212
www.lisaschuchman.com<http://www.lisaschuchman.com/<http://www.lisaschuchman.com<http://www.lisaschuchman.com/>>

I learn, I give. ? Gloria Steinem

NOTE: I do not use encrypted email.  Messages sent to or from my office via email are not secure and may not be protected by attorney-client privilege. This email address is not monitored at all times.  If your matter is urgent, please phone my office during regular business hours.

Any tax advice included in this document and its attachments was not intended or written to be used, and it cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code.
P  Please consider the trees before printing this document

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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 21:44:55 +0000
From: "Brink, Kerry" <Kbrink at vjglaw.com>
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Financial POA
Message-ID:
        <C98943B9998C9C46B51D0A15239656E8DD432FCD at vjgtac2-mail.vjglaw.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=11.125.200

There is always this - last paragraph would require bank to pay reasonable fees for failing to honor the Power of Attorney.

Best regards,
Kerry
Kerry E. Brink * Attorney at Law

Estate Planning, Probate, Elder Law

[VJG logo]
Direct: 253-591-8571
www.vjglaw.com<http://www.vjglaw.com/>
______________________________
This email and any files transmitted with it are from the law firm of Vandeberg Johnson & Gandara, LLP and may contain privileged, confidential, or protected information. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, or use of the contents of this message or any attachments is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify us and delete this email and any attached files.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Vivenzio
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 1:45 PM
To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com
Subject: [WSBAPT] Financial POA

Listmates:
Client giver POA to her son.  Son goes to Key Bank to access Revocable Trust account with POA that specifically incorporates the statutes (11.125.240, 11.125.300, 11.125.330).  Key Bank essentially says they are a federal bank and do not have to honor a Washington State POA.  Any thoughts or suggestions?

Anthony D. Vivenzio,
Attorney and Counselor at Law
PO Box 208
540 Guard Street, Ste. 260
Friday Harbor, WA  98250
(360) 378-6860
vivenziolaw at rockisland.com<mailto:vivenziolaw at rockisland.com>

CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
E-mails from this firm normally contain confidential and privileged material, are for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain material protected by HIPAA, ERISA or other federal or state law and/or may be protected by legal privileges. Use or distribution by an unintended recipient is prohibited, and may be a violation of law. If you believe that you received this e-mail in error, please do not read this e-mail or any attached items. Please delete the e-mail and all attachments, including any copies thereof, and inform the sender that you have deleted the e-mail, all attachments and any copies thereof. Thank you.

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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 22:30:35 +0000
From: Sharon Rutberg <sharon at salmonbaylaw.com>
To: "wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question
Message-ID:
        <MWHPR1001MB22559D216AB7EA5BD7F177D3AE4B0 at MWHPR1001MB2255.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi, listmates --


Client's husband died without a will. The couple owned their home as community property and neither spouse has any children. We do not want to open estate administration for the husband (due to lack of need and privacy concerns). But we do want to transfer the wife's interest into her revocable living trust (created also for privacy concerns).


Do we need to record a document reflecting the transfer by intestate succession of the house to the wife as sole owner before she can quit claim the property into her RLT? If so, how so we do that? We have created a lack of probate affidavit attesting that surviving spouse is the rightful heir to the property. Can we record that (along with a death certificate and a REET affidavit)  to document the transfer? Do we need a deed instrument in addition?

I've heard varying things from different sources. Any clarification would be appreciated!


Best,

Sharon


Sharon C. Rutberg, Attorney at Law

Salmon Bay Law Group, PLLC

1734 NW Market St.

Seattle, WA 98107

206-735-3177, ext. 2

sharon at salmonbaylaw.com<mailto:sharon at salmonbaylaw.com>

Website: www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com>

Washington State Bar #47055

NOTICES
The contents of this message and any attachments may be protected by the attorney-client privilege, work product doctrine, and/or other applicable protections. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this message in error, please notify the sender and promptly delete the message. Thank you for your assistance.



IRS Circular 230 Disclaimer: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that to the extent this communication contains advice relating to a Federal tax issue, it is not intended or written to be used, and it may not be used, for (i) the purpose of avoiding any penalties that may be imposed on you or any other person or entity under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting or marketing to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.





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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 22:50:32 +0000
From: James Bates <James.Bates at lucelawfirm.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Financial POA
Message-ID:
        <BLUPR03MB14741970CBC68B181789108AFF4B0 at BLUPR03MB1474.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

  1.  Key Bank is insane.  Heck, I'm shocked they aren't applying Ohio law.
  2.  I have always struggled with this question from a conceptional standpoint.  I would infer that 11.125.240(g) requires some language in the trust which would allow the trustor/trustee to delegate their authority under a POA.  Absent that language, I'm not sure language in a POA is enough to access trust accounts.  (Not that it matters much, but I know this is the UTC position, that both the POA and the Trust must allow the delegation.)  Any reason not to install the son as a Trustee to access the accounts?  In my opinion, it is a best practice to have the Trustee control the trust accounts and the POA be used for non-trust accounts.

James Bates, Attorney
Luce & Associates, P.S.
4505 Pacific Hwy. E., Suite A
Tacoma, WA 98424
T: (253) 922-8724
F: (253) 922-2802
www.LuceLawFirm.com<http://www.LuceLawFirm.com>  [e943ecc8-5be2-4768-a17e-1b829b908afe] <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Luce-Kenney-Associates-PS/200703820101348>

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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:17:08 -0700
From: "Anthony Vivenzio" <vivenziolaw at rockisland.com>
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Financial POA
Message-ID:
        <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAALZByoMYm/dGiveHP4mZTTmihAAAEAAAAN58GX3hxY5HnR3r9aZzQ1IBAAAAAA==@rockisland.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Key bank quoted their Deposit Account Agreement and Funds Availability
Policy Which states:  Accounts not eligible for POA Designation:  .Accounts
owned by fiduciaries (estate, guardianship and trust accounts).



Anthony D. Vivenzio,

Attorney and Counselor at Law

PO Box 208

540 Guard Street, Ste. 260

Friday Harbor, WA  98250

(360) 378-6860

vivenziolaw at rockisland.com



CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
E-mails from this firm normally contain confidential and privileged
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
[mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Heather deVrieze
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 2:06 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Financial POA



Has the agent provided a sworn statement as described in 11.125.430? That
together with a copy of 11.125.200 outlining or highlighting the timeline
and reasons that the POA can be refused, and the remedies if it is
unreasonably refused, might help.



Heather





Heather S. de Vrieze
Attorney-at-Law

cid:image001.jpg at 01D013C2.30F35160

3909 California Avenue SW

Seattle, WA 98116-3705

(206)938-5500

 <mailto:heatherd at westseattlelaw.com> heatherd at westseattlelaw.com

 <http://www.westseattlelaw.com/> www.westseattlelaw.com<http://www.westseattlelaw.com>

Click here to connect with de Vrieze | Carney on Facebook:
<https://www.facebook.com/DeVriezeCarney> FB Logo



CONFIDENTIAL & PRIVILEGED. This e-mail message may contain legally
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e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies
of this e-mail message and any attachment.



From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
[mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Vivenzio
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 1:45 PM
To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com
Subject: [WSBAPT] Financial POA



Listmates:

Client giver POA to her son.  Son goes to Key Bank to access Revocable Trust
account with POA that specifically incorporates the statutes (11.125.240,
11.125.300, 11.125.330).  Key Bank essentially says they are a federal bank
and do not have to honor a Washington State POA.  Any thoughts or
suggestions?



Anthony D. Vivenzio,

Attorney and Counselor at Law

PO Box 208

540 Guard Street, Ste. 260

Friday Harbor, WA  98250

(360) 378-6860

vivenziolaw at rockisland.com



CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
E-mails from this firm normally contain confidential and privileged
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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 17:28:54 -0700
From: "Mike Winslow" <mike at winslegal.com>
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Financial POA
Message-ID: <003301d343ba$40caffe0$c260ffa0$@winslegal.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

If your client is still competent, consider amending the trust to add son as
a Co-Trustee.

Michael A. Winslow
1204 Cleveland Ave.
Mount Vernon, WA 98273
Ph. 360-336-3321
Em. Mike at winslegal.com

This message is from an attorney, so it's confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, it's too late to stop reading this message, but you may
not use it for any improper purpose. Huge Disclaimer available upon request.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
[mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Vivenzio
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 4:17 PM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Financial POA

Key bank quoted their Deposit Account Agreement and Funds Availability
Policy Which states:  Accounts not eligible for POA Designation:  .Accounts
owned by fiduciaries (estate, guardianship and trust accounts).

Anthony D. Vivenzio,
Attorney and Counselor at Law
PO Box 208
540 Guard Street, Ste. 260
Friday Harbor, WA  98250
(360) 378-6860
vivenziolaw at rockisland.com

CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
E-mails from this firm normally contain confidential and privileged
material, are for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain
material protected by HIPAA, ERISA or other federal or state law and/or may
be protected by legal privileges. Use or distribution by an unintended
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you received this e-mail in error, please do not read this e-mail or any
attached items. Please delete the e-mail and all attachments, including any
copies thereof, and inform the sender that you have deleted the e-mail, all
attachments and any copies thereof. Thank you.


From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
[mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Heather deVrieze
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 2:06 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Financial POA

Has the agent provided a sworn statement as described in 11.125.430? That
together with a copy of 11.125.200 outlining or highlighting the timeline
and reasons that the POA can be refused, and the remedies if it is
unreasonably refused, might help.

Heather


Heather S. de Vrieze
Attorney-at-Law
cid:image001.jpg at 01D013C2.30F35160
3909 California Avenue SW
Seattle, WA 98116-3705
(206)938-5500
 <mailto:heatherd at westseattlelaw.com> heatherd at westseattlelaw.com
 <http://www.westseattlelaw.com/> www.westseattlelaw.com<http://www.westseattlelaw.com>
Click here to connect with de Vrieze | Carney on Facebook:
<https://www.facebook.com/DeVriezeCarney> FB Logo

CONFIDENTIAL & PRIVILEGED. This e-mail message may contain legally
privileged and/or confidential information.  If you have received this
e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies
of this e-mail message and any attachment.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
[mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Vivenzio
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 1:45 PM
To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com
Subject: [WSBAPT] Financial POA

Listmates:
Client giver POA to her son.  Son goes to Key Bank to access Revocable Trust
account with POA that specifically incorporates the statutes (11.125.240,
11.125.300, 11.125.330).  Key Bank essentially says they are a federal bank
and do not have to honor a Washington State POA.  Any thoughts or
suggestions?

Anthony D. Vivenzio,
Attorney and Counselor at Law
PO Box 208
540 Guard Street, Ste. 260
Friday Harbor, WA  98250
(360) 378-6860
vivenziolaw at rockisland.com

CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
E-mails from this firm normally contain confidential and privileged
material, are for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain
material protected by HIPAA, ERISA or other federal or state law and/or may
be protected by legal privileges. Use or distribution by an unintended
recipient is prohibited, and may be a violation of law. If you believe that
you received this e-mail in error, please do not read this e-mail or any
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copies thereof, and inform the sender that you have deleted the e-mail, all
attachments and any copies thereof. Thank you.

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------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 17:34:25 -0700
From: "Mike Winslow" <mike at winslegal.com>
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question
Message-ID: <003901d343bb$05e69820$11b3c860$@winslegal.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I have heard that the clerks in the tax assessor's offices tell people they
need a deed. This happens is Skagit. Not necessary and not effective to
transfer title. Redundant, waste of money, etc.
The Lack of Probate affidavit is sufficient. Record it per the WAC, then,
wife just deeds to Trust. Use a warranty deed, not a quit claim deed, to
maintain title insurance coverage from original acquisition.

See  WAC 458-61A-202. Look at 6(i) for the process applicable to your
matter.



Michael A. Winslow
1204 Cleveland Ave.
Mount Vernon, WA 98273
Ph. 360-336-3321
Em. Mike at winslegal.com

This message is from an attorney, so it's confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, it's too late to stop reading this message, but you may
not use it for any improper purpose. Huge Disclaimer available upon request.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
[mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Sharon Rutberg
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 3:31 PM
To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com
Subject: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question

Hi, listmates --

Client's husband died without a will. The couple owned their home as
community property and neither spouse has any children. We do not want to
open estate administration for the husband (due to lack of need and privacy
concerns). But we do want to transfer the wife's interest into her revocable
living trust (created also for privacy concerns).

Do we need to record a document reflecting the transfer by intestate
succession of the house to the wife as sole owner before she can quit claim
the property into her RLT? If so, how so we do that? We have created a lack
of probate affidavit attesting that surviving spouse is the rightful heir to
the property. Can we record that (along with a death certificate and a REET
affidavit)  to document the transfer? Do we need a deed instrument in
addition?

I've heard varying things from different sources. Any clarification would be
appreciated!

Best,
Sharon

Sharon C. Rutberg, Attorney at Law
Salmon Bay Law Group, PLLC
1734 NW Market St.
Seattle, WA 98107
206-735-3177, ext. 2
 <mailto:sharon at salmonbaylaw.com> sharon at salmonbaylaw.com
Website: www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com>
Washington State Bar #47055

NOTICES
The contents of this message and any attachments may be protected by the
attorney-client privilege, work product doctrine, and/or other applicable
protections. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this
message in error, please notify the sender and promptly delete the message.
Thank you for your assistance.

IRS Circular 230 Disclaimer: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed
by the IRS, we inform you that to the extent this communication contains
advice relating to a Federal tax issue, it is not intended or written to be
used, and it may not be used, for (i) the purpose of avoiding any penalties
that may be imposed on you or any other person or entity under the Internal
Revenue Code or (ii) promoting or marketing to another party any transaction
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------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:47:36 +0000
From: "Goffe, Wendy S." <wendy.goffe at stoel.com>
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Newport, Oregon
Message-ID:
        <1C395378C1FB614F8296822AA87FF8D4020FA8E184 at DC1-EXDAG01.stoel.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Any recommendations for an estate planning attorney in or near Newport, Oregon?

Wendy S. Goffe | Partner
STOEL RIVES LLP | 600 University Street, Suite 3600 | Seattle, WA 98101-4109
Direct: (206) 386-7565 | Fax: (206) 386-7500
wendy.goffe at stoel.com<mailto:wendy.goffe at stoel.com> | Bio<http://www.stoel.com/showbio.aspx?show=9346> | vCard<http://www.stoel.com/getvcard.asp?id=9346> | www.stoel.com<http://www.stoel.com/>

This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient.  Any unauthorized review, use, or distribution is prohibited and may be unlawful.


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Message: 13
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:45:00 +0000
From: Paul Neumiller <pneumiller at hotmail.com>
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question
Message-ID:
        <CY1PR1101MB1225B13A3E17BADA5522EA19D2480 at CY1PR1101MB1225.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

This really goes against my understanding.  Those WACs only address exemption from the Excise Tax, not the transfer of title.  In the absence of a recorded Community Property Agreement or a recorded Transfer On Death Deed or a probated estate, a Lack of Probate Affidavit is only effective if a title company is willing to accept it in terms of insuring a sale of the property.  I sure hope Dwight Bickel or some other title person chimes in here.  While the widow can record the deed (or the Affidavit), the real test will come at a later time when a title company is asked to insure a sale of the property.  Now, if that sale is ten years down the road, an insurance company may feel it?s a safe enough transaction to insure because of the passage of time but I doubt an insurance company will accept the Affidavit if the sale is within two years.

I have advised my clients that it is safest to probate the estate to ensure later title insurance on a sale of the property.  It has been my analysis that the title companies are currently willing to insure the transfer of title using a an Affidavit of Lack of Probate until they, as an industry, get burned by a lawsuit involving an Affidavit, the case will hit the conservative title insurance industry like a tsunami, and then their ?acceptance? of an Affidavit will dissolve.  That may force the widow to go back and probate the estate.

[cid:image002.jpg at 01D343FD.9BBA2190]

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Mike Winslow
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 5:34 PM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question

I have heard that the clerks in the tax assessor?s offices tell people they need a deed. This happens is Skagit. Not necessary and not effective to transfer title. Redundant, waste of money, etc.
The Lack of Probate affidavit is sufficient. Record it per the WAC, then, wife just deeds to Trust. Use a warranty deed, not a quit claim deed, to maintain title insurance coverage from original acquisition.
See  WAC 458-61A-202. Look at 6(i) for the process applicable to your matter.


Michael A. Winslow
1204 Cleveland Ave.
Mount Vernon, WA 98273
Ph. 360-336-3321
Em. Mike at winslegal.com<mailto:Mike at winslegal.com>

This message is from an attorney, so it?s confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, it?s too late to stop reading this message, but you may not use it for any improper purpose. Huge Disclaimer available upon request.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Sharon Rutberg
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 3:31 PM
To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question


Hi, listmates --



Client's husband died without a will. The couple owned their home as community property and neither spouse has any children. We do not want to open estate administration for the husband (due to lack of need and privacy concerns). But we do want to transfer the wife's interest into her revocable living trust (created also for privacy concerns).



Do we need to record a document reflecting the transfer by intestate succession of the house to the wife as sole owner before she can quit claim the property into her RLT? If so, how so we do that? We have created a lack of probate affidavit attesting that surviving spouse is the rightful heir to the property. Can we record that (along with a death certificate and a REET affidavit)  to document the transfer? Do we need a deed instrument in addition?

I've heard varying things from different sources. Any clarification would be appreciated!



Best,

Sharon



Sharon C. Rutberg, Attorney at Law

Salmon Bay Law Group, PLLC

1734 NW Market St.

Seattle, WA 98107

206-735-3177, ext. 2

sharon at salmonbaylaw.com<mailto:sharon at salmonbaylaw.com>

Website: www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com>>

Washington State Bar #47055

NOTICES
The contents of this message and any attachments may be protected by the attorney-client privilege, work product doctrine, and/or other applicable protections. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this message in error, please notify the sender and promptly delete the message. Thank you for your assistance.



IRS Circular 230 Disclaimer: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that to the extent this communication contains advice relating to a Federal tax issue, it is not intended or written to be used, and it may not be used, for (i) the purpose of avoiding any penalties that may be imposed on you or any other person or entity under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting or marketing to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.






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Message: 14
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 08:53:29 -0700
From: John McCrady <j.mccrady at pstitle.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Financial POA
Message-ID:
        <A8106026B40C9544A17DC5E44A2003EE022A40F5B7CF at PSTMAILV.pstitle.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I would think that in order for the POA to be effective for this use you would need:

1)       The trust agreement would need to authorize the trustee to appoint an attorney in fact to act for the trustee.

2)      The POA would need to apply to action as trustee.



John McCrady
Counsel
Puget Sound Title Company
5350 Orchard Street West
University Place WA 98467
253-476-5721
j.mccrady at pstitle.com

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Brink, Kerry
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 2:45 PM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Financial POA

http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=11.125.200

There is always this - last paragraph would require bank to pay reasonable fees for failing to honor the Power of Attorney.

Best regards,
Kerry
Kerry E. Brink * Attorney at Law

Estate Planning, Probate, Elder Law

[cid:image001.png at 01D34400.BD5E02A0]
Direct: 253-591-8571
www.vjglaw.com<http://www.vjglaw.com/>
______________________________
This email and any files transmitted with it are from the law firm of Vandeberg Johnson & Gandara, LLP and may contain privileged, confidential, or protected information. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, or use of the contents of this message or any attachments is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify us and delete this email and any attached files.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Vivenzio
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 1:45 PM
To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Financial POA

Listmates:
Client giver POA to her son.  Son goes to Key Bank to access Revocable Trust account with POA that specifically incorporates the statutes (11.125.240, 11.125.300, 11.125.330).  Key Bank essentially says they are a federal bank and do not have to honor a Washington State POA.  Any thoughts or suggestions?

Anthony D. Vivenzio,
Attorney and Counselor at Law
PO Box 208
540 Guard Street, Ste. 260
Friday Harbor, WA  98250
(360) 378-6860
vivenziolaw at rockisland.com<mailto:vivenziolaw at rockisland.com>

CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
E-mails from this firm normally contain confidential and privileged material, are for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain material protected by HIPAA, ERISA or other federal or state law and/or may be protected by legal privileges. Use or distribution by an unintended recipient is prohibited, and may be a violation of law. If you believe that you received this e-mail in error, please do not read this e-mail or any attached items. Please delete the e-mail and all attachments, including any copies thereof, and inform the sender that you have deleted the e-mail, all attachments and any copies thereof. Thank you.

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------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:58:01 +0000
From: Kailei Feeney <kailei at westseattlelaw.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Newport, Oregon
Message-ID:
        <CY4PR08MB349640C59C5148017D239D14A7480 at CY4PR08MB3496.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Wendy,

I have worked with Mr. Holbrook on OR-WA estate administration and real property matters. I'm fairly certain he also does estate planning. If not, I'm at least certain he could provide you an additional contact:

[Douglas R  Holbrook]

Kailei
Kailei B. Feeney
Attorney-at-Law
[cid:image002.png at 01CE1502.B7F074B0]
3909 California Avenue SW
Seattle, WA 98116-3705
(206)938-5500
kailei at westseattlelaw.com<mailto:kailei at westseattlelaw.com>
www.westseattlelaw.com<http://www.westseattlelaw.com/<http://www.westseattlelaw.com<http://www.westseattlelaw.com/>>
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Goffe, Wendy S.
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 7:48 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
Subject: [WSBAPT] Newport, Oregon

Any recommendations for an estate planning attorney in or near Newport, Oregon?

Wendy S. Goffe | Partner
STOEL RIVES LLP | 600 University Street, Suite 3600 | Seattle, WA 98101-4109
Direct: (206) 386-7565 | Fax: (206) 386-7500
wendy.goffe at stoel.com<mailto:wendy.goffe at stoel.com> | Bio<http://www.stoel.com/showbio.aspx?show=9346> | vCard<http://www.stoel.com/getvcard.asp?id=9346> | www.stoel.com<http://www.stoel.com/>

This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient.  Any unauthorized review, use, or distribution is prohibited and may be unlawful.


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------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 16:16:43 +0000
From: Rebecca King <rebecca at nwelg.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question
Message-ID:
        <DM5PR10MB20272ABB8F427AB8E781E6FAB3480 at DM5PR10MB2027.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

When a spouse passes and there is a need to demonstrate that the real property vests in the surviving spouse and there are no other probate assets, I generally advise surviving spouse to execute a Succession Affidavit which is recorded.  The original will is filed with the court.  If a title company later refuses to insure based on the Succession Affidavit (which I have not personally experienced), we can open the probate at that later date.  In most cases, we save the client significant fees and costs of probate.

Sharon, have you considered getting title insurance on the transfer to the RLT?   I would think that if a title company is willing to insure the transfer, you will be fine.

Rebecca King
Attorney

PLEASE NOTE: Our new address is 2150 N. 107th Street, Suite 501, Seattle, WA 98133

Northwest Elder Law Group
2150 N. 107th Street, Suite 501
Seattle, WA 98133
Main: (206) 937-6102
Direct: (206) 866-6544
Fax: (206) 830-9326

Providing Services in Elder Law

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information protected by law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Paul Neumiller
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 8:45 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question

This really goes against my understanding.  Those WACs only address exemption from the Excise Tax, not the transfer of title.  In the absence of a recorded Community Property Agreement or a recorded Transfer On Death Deed or a probated estate, a Lack of Probate Affidavit is only effective if a title company is willing to accept it in terms of insuring a sale of the property.  I sure hope Dwight Bickel or some other title person chimes in here.  While the widow can record the deed (or the Affidavit), the real test will come at a later time when a title company is asked to insure a sale of the property.  Now, if that sale is ten years down the road, an insurance company may feel it's a safe enough transaction to insure because of the passage of time but I doubt an insurance company will accept the Affidavit if the sale is within two years.

I have advised my clients that it is safest to probate the estate to ensure later title insurance on a sale of the property.  It has been my analysis that the title companies are currently willing to insure the transfer of title using a an Affidavit of Lack of Probate until they, as an industry, get burned by a lawsuit involving an Affidavit, the case will hit the conservative title insurance industry like a tsunami, and then their "acceptance" of an Affidavit will dissolve.  That may force the widow to go back and probate the estate.

[cid:image002.jpg at 01D34402.FEA78090]

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Mike Winslow
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 5:34 PM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question

I have heard that the clerks in the tax assessor's offices tell people they need a deed. This happens is Skagit. Not necessary and not effective to transfer title. Redundant, waste of money, etc.
The Lack of Probate affidavit is sufficient. Record it per the WAC, then, wife just deeds to Trust. Use a warranty deed, not a quit claim deed, to maintain title insurance coverage from original acquisition.
See  WAC 458-61A-202. Look at 6(i) for the process applicable to your matter.


Michael A. Winslow
1204 Cleveland Ave.
Mount Vernon, WA 98273
Ph. 360-336-3321
Em. Mike at winslegal.com<mailto:Mike at winslegal.com>

This message is from an attorney, so it's confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, it's too late to stop reading this message, but you may not use it for any improper purpose. Huge Disclaimer available upon request.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Sharon Rutberg
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 3:31 PM
To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question


Hi, listmates --



Client's husband died without a will. The couple owned their home as community property and neither spouse has any children. We do not want to open estate administration for the husband (due to lack of need and privacy concerns). But we do want to transfer the wife's interest into her revocable living trust (created also for privacy concerns).



Do we need to record a document reflecting the transfer by intestate succession of the house to the wife as sole owner before she can quit claim the property into her RLT? If so, how so we do that? We have created a lack of probate affidavit attesting that surviving spouse is the rightful heir to the property. Can we record that (along with a death certificate and a REET affidavit)  to document the transfer? Do we need a deed instrument in addition?

I've heard varying things from different sources. Any clarification would be appreciated!



Best,

Sharon



Sharon C. Rutberg, Attorney at Law

Salmon Bay Law Group, PLLC

1734 NW Market St.

Seattle, WA 98107

206-735-3177, ext. 2

sharon at salmonbaylaw.com<mailto:sharon at salmonbaylaw.com>

Website: www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com>>

Washington State Bar #47055

NOTICES
The contents of this message and any attachments may be protected by the attorney-client privilege, work product doctrine, and/or other applicable protections. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this message in error, please notify the sender and promptly delete the message. Thank you for your assistance.



IRS Circular 230 Disclaimer: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that to the extent this communication contains advice relating to a Federal tax issue, it is not intended or written to be used, and it may not be used, for (i) the purpose of avoiding any penalties that may be imposed on you or any other person or entity under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting or marketing to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.






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------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:18:13 -0700
From: "Mike Winslow" <mike at winslegal.com>
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question
Message-ID: <003001d3443e$deee59e0$9ccb0da0$@winslegal.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Title vests in the surviving spouse if a couple takes title as "husband and
wife", absent a will that disposes of the one half interest of the decedent
otherwise.
Further, title vests in the heirs at law without the requirement of probate
under:
RCW 11.04.250
When real estate vests-Rights of heirs.
When a person dies seized of lands, tenements or hereditaments, or any right
thereto or entitled to any interest therein in fee or for the life of
another, his or her title shall vest immediately in his or her heirs or
devisees, subject to his or her debts, family allowance, expenses of
administration, and any other charges for which such real estate is liable
under existing laws. No administration of the estate of such decedent, and
no decree of distribution or other finding or order of any court shall be
necessary in any case to vest such title in the heirs or devisees, but the
same shall vest in the heirs or devisees instantly upon the death of such
decedent: PROVIDED, That no person shall be deemed a devisee until the will
has been probated. The title and right to possession of such lands,
tenements, or hereditaments so vested in such heirs or devisees, together
with the rents, issues, and profits thereof, shall be good and valid against
all persons claiming adversely to the claims of any such heirs, or devisees,
excepting only the personal representative when appointed, and persons
lawfully claiming under such personal representative; and any one or more of
such heirs or devisees, or their grantees, jointly or severally, may sue for
and recover their respective shares or interests in any such lands,
tenements, or hereditaments and the rents, issues, and profits thereof,
whether letters testamentary or of administration be granted or not, from
any person except the personal representative and those lawfully claiming
under such personal representative.


Michael A. Winslow
1204 Cleveland Ave.
Mount Vernon, WA 98273
Ph. 360-336-3321
Em. Mike at winslegal.com

This message is from an attorney, so it's confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, it's too late to stop reading this message, but you may
not use it for any improper purpose. Huge Disclaimer available upon request.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
[mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Paul Neumiller
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 8:45 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question

This really goes against my understanding.  Those WACs only address
exemption from the Excise Tax, not the transfer of title.  In the absence of
a recorded Community Property Agreement or a recorded Transfer On Death Deed
or a probated estate, a Lack of Probate Affidavit is only effective if a
title company is willing to accept it in terms of insuring a sale of the
property.  I sure hope Dwight Bickel or some other title person chimes in
here.  While the widow can record the deed (or the Affidavit), the real test
will come at a later time when a title company is asked to insure a sale of
the property.  Now, if that sale is ten years down the road, an insurance
company may feel it's a safe enough transaction to insure because of the
passage of time but I doubt an insurance company will accept the Affidavit
if the sale is within two years.

I have advised my clients that it is safest to probate the estate to ensure
later title insurance on a sale of the property.  It has been my analysis
that the title companies are currently willing to insure the transfer of
title using a an Affidavit of Lack of Probate until they, as an industry,
get burned by a lawsuit involving an Affidavit, the case will hit the
conservative title insurance industry like a tsunami, and then their
"acceptance" of an Affidavit will dissolve.  That may force the widow to go
back and probate the estate.



From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
[mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Mike Winslow
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 5:34 PM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question

I have heard that the clerks in the tax assessor's offices tell people they
need a deed. This happens is Skagit. Not necessary and not effective to
transfer title. Redundant, waste of money, etc.
The Lack of Probate affidavit is sufficient. Record it per the WAC, then,
wife just deeds to Trust. Use a warranty deed, not a quit claim deed, to
maintain title insurance coverage from original acquisition.

See  WAC 458-61A-202. Look at 6(i) for the process applicable to your
matter.



Michael A. Winslow
1204 Cleveland Ave.
Mount Vernon, WA 98273
Ph. 360-336-3321
Em. Mike at winslegal.com

This message is from an attorney, so it's confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, it's too late to stop reading this message, but you may
not use it for any improper purpose. Huge Disclaimer available upon request.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
[mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Sharon Rutberg
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 3:31 PM
To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com
Subject: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question

Hi, listmates --

Client's husband died without a will. The couple owned their home as
community property and neither spouse has any children. We do not want to
open estate administration for the husband (due to lack of need and privacy
concerns). But we do want to transfer the wife's interest into her revocable
living trust (created also for privacy concerns).

Do we need to record a document reflecting the transfer by intestate
succession of the house to the wife as sole owner before she can quit claim
the property into her RLT? If so, how so we do that? We have created a lack
of probate affidavit attesting that surviving spouse is the rightful heir to
the property. Can we record that (along with a death certificate and a REET
affidavit)  to document the transfer? Do we need a deed instrument in
addition?

I've heard varying things from different sources. Any clarification would be
appreciated!

Best,
Sharon

Sharon C. Rutberg, Attorney at Law
Salmon Bay Law Group, PLLC
1734 NW Market St.
Seattle, WA 98107
206-735-3177, ext. 2
 <mailto:sharon at salmonbaylaw.com> sharon at salmonbaylaw.com
Website: www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com>
Washington State Bar #47055

NOTICES
The contents of this message and any attachments may be protected by the
attorney-client privilege, work product doctrine, and/or other applicable
protections. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this
message in error, please notify the sender and promptly delete the message.
Thank you for your assistance.

IRS Circular 230 Disclaimer: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed
by the IRS, we inform you that to the extent this communication contains
advice relating to a Federal tax issue, it is not intended or written to be
used, and it may not be used, for (i) the purpose of avoiding any penalties
that may be imposed on you or any other person or entity under the Internal
Revenue Code or (ii) promoting or marketing to another party any transaction
or matter addressed herein.



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------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:22:55 -0700
From: "Cyrus Field" <cyfield at rockisland.com>
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Newport, Oregon
Message-ID: <01cf01d3443f$88359e00$98a0da00$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Wendy-FWIW, my folks retired to Newport and used Brian Haggerty
(541-265-8888) for revising their RLT and handling my Dad's estate. My mom
was pleased with his services. Good luck, Cy



Cyrus W. Field, Attorney at Law (admitted in Washington and Oregon)

phone: 360-472-1223 Mail: POB 367, Shaw Island, WA 98286 Office: 640 Mullis
St. Friday Harbor, WA

******************************************************************

The information contained in this e-mail message, including attachments, may
be privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not
the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying is
strictly prohibited. If you think you have received this e-mail in error,
please e-mail the sender at cyfield at rockisland.com and destroy or delete the
original and any copies.







From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
[mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Goffe, Wendy S.
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 7:48 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
Subject: [WSBAPT] Newport, Oregon



Any recommendations for an estate planning attorney in or near Newport,
Oregon?



Wendy S. Goffe | Partner
STOEL RIVES LLP | 600 University Street, Suite 3600 | Seattle, WA 98101-4109
Direct: (206) 386-7565 | Fax: (206) 386-7500
wendy.goffe at stoel.com | Bio <http://www.stoel.com/showbio.aspx?show=9346>  |
vCard <http://www.stoel.com/getvcard.asp?id=9346>  | www.stoel.com<http://www.stoel.com>
<http://www.stoel.com/>



This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or
attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient.  Any
unauthorized review, use, or distribution is prohibited and may be unlawful.






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------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:32:02 -0700
From: John McCrady <j.mccrady at pstitle.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question
Message-ID:
        <A8106026B40C9544A17DC5E44A2003EE022A40F5B7E0 at PSTMAILV.pstitle.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Most title people wouldn't disagree with your analysis.  Probate is the better alternative.  Title companies have used the lack of probate solution as an accommodation to people who, for whatever reason, (usually cost) don't want to probate the deceased's estate.
We do try to analyze the perceived risk of each situation; the surviving spouse usually being viewed as the safest situation.  My company has not had any loss claims directly related to our acceptance of a  lack of probate affidavit.
But you are correct when you say that a big loss claim by one of the insurers will make many of the insurers more reluctant to accept the affidavits.
It is easy to imagine a surviving spouse "forgetting" to mention a daughter of the deceased and a will that left the house to her.

John McCrady
Counsel
Puget Sound Title Company
5350 Orchard Street West
University Place WA 98467
253-476-5721
j.mccrady at pstitle.com

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Paul Neumiller
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 8:45 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question

This really goes against my understanding.  Those WACs only address exemption from the Excise Tax, not the transfer of title.  In the absence of a recorded Community Property Agreement or a recorded Transfer On Death Deed or a probated estate, a Lack of Probate Affidavit is only effective if a title company is willing to accept it in terms of insuring a sale of the property.  I sure hope Dwight Bickel or some other title person chimes in here.  While the widow can record the deed (or the Affidavit), the real test will come at a later time when a title company is asked to insure a sale of the property.  Now, if that sale is ten years down the road, an insurance company may feel it's a safe enough transaction to insure because of the passage of time but I doubt an insurance company will accept the Affidavit if the sale is within two years.

I have advised my clients that it is safest to probate the estate to ensure later title insurance on a sale of the property.  It has been my analysis that the title companies are currently willing to insure the transfer of title using a an Affidavit of Lack of Probate until they, as an industry, get burned by a lawsuit involving an Affidavit, the case will hit the conservative title insurance industry like a tsunami, and then their "acceptance" of an Affidavit will dissolve.  That may force the widow to go back and probate the estate.

[cid:image001.jpg at 01D34406.207A60E0]

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Mike Winslow
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 5:34 PM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question

I have heard that the clerks in the tax assessor's offices tell people they need a deed. This happens is Skagit. Not necessary and not effective to transfer title. Redundant, waste of money, etc.
The Lack of Probate affidavit is sufficient. Record it per the WAC, then, wife just deeds to Trust. Use a warranty deed, not a quit claim deed, to maintain title insurance coverage from original acquisition.
See  WAC 458-61A-202. Look at 6(i) for the process applicable to your matter.


Michael A. Winslow
1204 Cleveland Ave.
Mount Vernon, WA 98273
Ph. 360-336-3321
Em. Mike at winslegal.com<mailto:Mike at winslegal.com>

This message is from an attorney, so it's confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, it's too late to stop reading this message, but you may not use it for any improper purpose. Huge Disclaimer available upon request.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Sharon Rutberg
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 3:31 PM
To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question


Hi, listmates --



Client's husband died without a will. The couple owned their home as community property and neither spouse has any children. We do not want to open estate administration for the husband (due to lack of need and privacy concerns). But we do want to transfer the wife's interest into her revocable living trust (created also for privacy concerns).



Do we need to record a document reflecting the transfer by intestate succession of the house to the wife as sole owner before she can quit claim the property into her RLT? If so, how so we do that? We have created a lack of probate affidavit attesting that surviving spouse is the rightful heir to the property. Can we record that (along with a death certificate and a REET affidavit)  to document the transfer? Do we need a deed instrument in addition?

I've heard varying things from different sources. Any clarification would be appreciated!



Best,

Sharon



Sharon C. Rutberg, Attorney at Law

Salmon Bay Law Group, PLLC

1734 NW Market St.

Seattle, WA 98107

206-735-3177, ext. 2

sharon at salmonbaylaw.com<mailto:sharon at salmonbaylaw.com>

Website: www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com>>

Washington State Bar #47055

NOTICES
The contents of this message and any attachments may be protected by the attorney-client privilege, work product doctrine, and/or other applicable protections. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this message in error, please notify the sender and promptly delete the message. Thank you for your assistance.



IRS Circular 230 Disclaimer: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that to the extent this communication contains advice relating to a Federal tax issue, it is not intended or written to be used, and it may not be used, for (i) the purpose of avoiding any penalties that may be imposed on you or any other person or entity under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting or marketing to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.






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Message: 20
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 16:44:55 +0000
From: Dalynne Singleton <dalynne at glgmail.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Lack of probate affidavit question
Message-ID:
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Not exactly the same facts but we have run into something recently where my client (wife) held onto property after her husband died in 2012.  They had been married over 40 years.  His Will was filed with the clerk of the court but no probate was opened.  The wife decided to sell in 2017 and title gave us a complete runaround when it was discovered that the husband had a prior wife from whom he divorced who was on the title to the property and she subsequently died in 1978.  Her death certificate showed she had remarried.  We could find NO heirs, no divorce papers or her 2nd husband.  Her estate was never probated.

Ticor Title and Chicago Title didn't want to close without seeing the divorce papers from the 1960s.  We couldn't find them.
Finally, it closed with my push back that a quiet title action would delay closing several months.

If you wait to file probate, the surviving spouse might have died and then you leave title to 2 people who are both deceased.  I guess in my experience, it is better to probate now and have title vest properly.

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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Rebecca King
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 9:17 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question

When a spouse passes and there is a need to demonstrate that the real property vests in the surviving spouse and there are no other probate assets, I generally advise surviving spouse to execute a Succession Affidavit which is recorded.  The original will is filed with the court.  If a title company later refuses to insure based on the Succession Affidavit (which I have not personally experienced), we can open the probate at that later date.  In most cases, we save the client significant fees and costs of probate.

Sharon, have you considered getting title insurance on the transfer to the RLT?   I would think that if a title company is willing to insure the transfer, you will be fine.

Rebecca King
Attorney

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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Paul Neumiller
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 8:45 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question

This really goes against my understanding.  Those WACs only address exemption from the Excise Tax, not the transfer of title.  In the absence of a recorded Community Property Agreement or a recorded Transfer On Death Deed or a probated estate, a Lack of Probate Affidavit is only effective if a title company is willing to accept it in terms of insuring a sale of the property.  I sure hope Dwight Bickel or some other title person chimes in here.  While the widow can record the deed (or the Affidavit), the real test will come at a later time when a title company is asked to insure a sale of the property.  Now, if that sale is ten years down the road, an insurance company may feel it's a safe enough transaction to insure because of the passage of time but I doubt an insurance company will accept the Affidavit if the sale is within two years.

I have advised my clients that it is safest to probate the estate to ensure later title insurance on a sale of the property.  It has been my analysis that the title companies are currently willing to insure the transfer of title using a an Affidavit of Lack of Probate until they, as an industry, get burned by a lawsuit involving an Affidavit, the case will hit the conservative title insurance industry like a tsunami, and then their "acceptance" of an Affidavit will dissolve.  That may force the widow to go back and probate the estate.

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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Mike Winslow
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 5:34 PM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question

I have heard that the clerks in the tax assessor's offices tell people they need a deed. This happens is Skagit. Not necessary and not effective to transfer title. Redundant, waste of money, etc.
The Lack of Probate affidavit is sufficient. Record it per the WAC, then, wife just deeds to Trust. Use a warranty deed, not a quit claim deed, to maintain title insurance coverage from original acquisition.
See  WAC 458-61A-202. Look at 6(i) for the process applicable to your matter.


Michael A. Winslow
1204 Cleveland Ave.
Mount Vernon, WA 98273
Ph. 360-336-3321
Em. Mike at winslegal.com<mailto:Mike at winslegal.com>

This message is from an attorney, so it's confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, it's too late to stop reading this message, but you may not use it for any improper purpose. Huge Disclaimer available upon request.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Sharon Rutberg
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 3:31 PM
To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question


Hi, listmates --



Client's husband died without a will. The couple owned their home as community property and neither spouse has any children. We do not want to open estate administration for the husband (due to lack of need and privacy concerns). But we do want to transfer the wife's interest into her revocable living trust (created also for privacy concerns).



Do we need to record a document reflecting the transfer by intestate succession of the house to the wife as sole owner before she can quit claim the property into her RLT? If so, how so we do that? We have created a lack of probate affidavit attesting that surviving spouse is the rightful heir to the property. Can we record that (along with a death certificate and a REET affidavit)  to document the transfer? Do we need a deed instrument in addition?

I've heard varying things from different sources. Any clarification would be appreciated!



Best,

Sharon



Sharon C. Rutberg, Attorney at Law

Salmon Bay Law Group, PLLC

1734 NW Market St.

Seattle, WA 98107

206-735-3177, ext. 2

sharon at salmonbaylaw.com<mailto:sharon at salmonbaylaw.com>

Website: www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com>>

Washington State Bar #47055

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