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<p>Thanks to all of you who responded on my question about lack of probate affidavits. It was the King County Recorder's Office agent who told me I needed a deed with the affidavit, and it seems clear that's NOT correct. It does appear that the LOP affidavit
should be accompanied by a certified death certificate and REET affidavit showing the tax exemption under WAC 458-61A-202(6)(h) (transfer of community property interest of deceased spouse in real property to surviving spouse who is the sole and rightful heir
to the property). </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>In my case, my client and her husband were married for 75 years and it seems clear that neither ever had any children (and no former spouses). Client is wary of opening estate administration due to possibility of estranged distant relatives coming out of
the woodwork - hence her desire not to administer husband's estate and to transfer house into her own RLT and avoid probate at her death. Also, she plans to have the trust turn around and sell the house before long. In this case, then, i<span>t seems okay
to proceed without opening estate admin. (If needed down the road, so be it.) </span>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I talked to the title company insuring the current deed, and they told me there would be no change in coverage with simply a transfer to an RLT. At SALE, they would require a lack of probate affidavit on their own form. Nevertheless, it seems cleaner to
me to file the DOR version of the lack of probate affidavit now, evidencing the intestate transfer of the real property to the surviving spouse, and only then having her file a deed transferring the house to the trust.
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Sharon <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><a name="_MailAutoSig" id="LPNoLP"><span style="color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;">Sharon C. Rutberg, Attorney at Law</span></a></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span><span style="color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;">Salmon Bay Law Group, PLLC</span></span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span><span style="color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;">1734 NW Market St.</span></span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span><span style="color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;">Seattle, WA 98107</span></span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span><span style="color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;">206-735-3177, ext. 2</span></span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span><span style="color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;">Website: www.salmonbaylaw.com</span></span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span><span style="color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;">Washington State Bar #47055<br>
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<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;"><b>From:</b> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com> on behalf of wsbapt-request@lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-request@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 13, 2017 9:45 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> WSBAPT Digest, Vol 37, Issue 11</font>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Commercial renter's insurance problem (Lisa E Schuchman)<br>
2. Financial POA (Anthony Vivenzio)<br>
3. Re: Financial POA (Brent Williams-Ruth)<br>
4. Re: Financial POA (Heather deVrieze)<br>
5. Re: Inherited mortgage (Eric Nelsen)<br>
6. Re: Financial POA (Brink, Kerry)<br>
7. lack of probate affidavit question (Sharon Rutberg)<br>
8. Re: Financial POA (James Bates)<br>
9. Re: Financial POA (Anthony Vivenzio)<br>
10. Re: Financial POA (Mike Winslow)<br>
11. Re: lack of probate affidavit question (Mike Winslow)<br>
12. Newport, Oregon (Goffe, Wendy S.)<br>
13. Re: lack of probate affidavit question (Paul Neumiller)<br>
14. Re: Financial POA (John McCrady)<br>
15. Re: Newport, Oregon (Kailei Feeney)<br>
16. Re: lack of probate affidavit question (Rebecca King)<br>
17. Re: lack of probate affidavit question (Mike Winslow)<br>
18. Re: Newport, Oregon (Cyrus Field)<br>
19. Re: lack of probate affidavit question (John McCrady)<br>
20. Lack of probate affidavit question (Dalynne Singleton)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 20:26:18 +0000<br>
From: Lisa E Schuchman <lisa@lisaschuchman.com><br>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Commercial renter's insurance problem<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<MWHPR1601MB1309EF7C5B5216E580E87ED4D14B0@MWHPR1601MB1309.namprd16.prod.outlook.com><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
A client owns a business located in rented property. He has commercial renter's insurance. Recently a toilet overflowed, resulting in damaged carpeting and a wall in the premises. The insurance claim was denied because the damaged improvements were made by
a prior tenant and not by him. The insurance company said that the policy covered only improvements made by this insured.<br>
<br>
If anyone thinks this is wrong and has experience contesting the insurance company's decision, please let me know for referral. Thanks.<br>
<br>
Lisa E. Schuchman<br>
206-960-4212<br>
<a href="http://www.lisaschuchman.com<http://www.lisaschuchman.com/">www.lisaschuchman.com<http://www.lisaschuchman.com/</a>><br>
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NOTE: I do not use encrypted email. Messages sent to or from my office via email are not secure and may not be protected by attorney-client privilege. This email address is not monitored at all times. If your matter is urgent, please phone my office during
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 13:45:03 -0700<br>
From: "Anthony Vivenzio" <vivenziolaw@rockisland.com><br>
To: <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Financial POA<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAALZByoMYm/dGiveHP4mZTTmihAAAEAAAADpmDDmaqYtAnZxWT91dnOUBAAAAAA==@rockisland.com><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Listmates:<br>
<br>
Client giver POA to her son. Son goes to Key Bank to access Revocable Trust<br>
account with POA that specifically incorporates the statutes (11.125.240,<br>
11.125.300, 11.125.330). Key Bank essentially says they are a federal bank<br>
and do not have to honor a Washington State POA. Any thoughts or<br>
suggestions?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Anthony D. Vivenzio,<br>
<br>
Attorney and Counselor at Law<br>
<br>
PO Box 208<br>
<br>
540 Guard Street, Ste. 260<br>
<br>
Friday Harbor, WA 98250<br>
<br>
(360) 378-6860<br>
<br>
<<a href="mailto:vivenziolaw@rockisland.com">mailto:vivenziolaw@rockisland.com</a>> vivenziolaw@rockisland.com<br>
<br>
<br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 13:48:44 -0700<br>
From: Brent Williams-Ruth <brent@bwrconsults.com><br>
To: "WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv" <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Financial POA<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CACaE6MCCy26SZ8KUqp6aWSpjCXu27crB2D-j-MwGAtpjd=1c7Q@mail.gmail.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Reply to the List Please.<br>
<br>
Thank you,<br>
<br>
Brent<br>
<br>
On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 1:45 PM, Anthony Vivenzio <<br>
vivenziolaw@rockisland.com> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Listmates:<br>
><br>
> Client giver POA to her son. Son goes to Key Bank to access Revocable<br>
> Trust account with POA that specifically incorporates the statutes<br>
> (11.125.240, 11.125.300, 11.125.330). Key Bank essentially says they are a<br>
> federal bank and do not have to honor a Washington State POA. Any thoughts<br>
> or suggestions?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *Anthony D. Vivenzio*,<br>
><br>
> Attorney and Counselor at Law<br>
><br>
> PO Box 208<br>
><br>
> 540 Guard Street, Ste. 260<br>
><br>
> Friday Harbor, WA 98250<br>
><br>
> (360) 378-6860<br>
><br>
> vivenziolaw@rockisland.com<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION*<br>
> *E-mails from this firm normally contain confidential and privileged<br>
> material, are for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain<br>
> material protected by HIPAA, ERISA or other federal or state law and/or may<br>
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> recipient is prohibited, and may be a violation of law. If you believe that<br>
> you received this e-mail in error, please do not read this e-mail or any<br>
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*BWR Consulting, PLLC*<br>
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Phone: (425) 830-5134<br>
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e-mail <brent@bwrconsults.com> / website <<a href="http://www.bwrconsults.com">http://www.bwrconsults.com</a>> /<br>
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Message: 4<br>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 21:06:09 +0000<br>
From: Heather deVrieze <heatherd@westseattlelaw.com><br>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Financial POA<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CY4PR08MB26952E331EBDB8ED5EAF1028A74B0@CY4PR08MB2695.namprd08.prod.outlook.com><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
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Has the agent provided a sworn statement as described in 11.125.430? That together with a copy of 11.125.200 outlining or highlighting the timeline and reasons that the POA can be refused, and the remedies if it is unreasonably refused, might help.<br>
<br>
Heather<br>
<br>
<br>
Heather S. de Vrieze<br>
Attorney-at-Law<br>
[cid:image001.jpg@01D013C2.30F35160]<br>
3909 California Avenue SW<br>
Seattle, WA 98116-3705<br>
(206)938-5500<br>
heatherd@westseattlelaw.com<mailto:heatherd@westseattlelaw.com><br>
<a href="http://www.westseattlelaw.com<http://www.westseattlelaw.com/">www.westseattlelaw.com<http://www.westseattlelaw.com/</a>><br>
Click here to connect with de Vrieze | Carney on Facebook: [FB Logo] <<a href="https://www.facebook.com/DeVriezeCarney">https://www.facebook.com/DeVriezeCarney</a>><br>
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From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Anthony Vivenzio<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 1:45 PM<br>
To: wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com<br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Financial POA<br>
<br>
Listmates:<br>
Client giver POA to her son. Son goes to Key Bank to access Revocable Trust account with POA that specifically incorporates the statutes (11.125.240, 11.125.300, 11.125.330). Key Bank essentially says they are a federal bank and do not have to honor a Washington
State POA. Any thoughts or suggestions?<br>
<br>
Anthony D. Vivenzio,<br>
Attorney and Counselor at Law<br>
PO Box 208<br>
540 Guard Street, Ste. 260<br>
Friday Harbor, WA 98250<br>
(360) 378-6860<br>
vivenziolaw@rockisland.com<mailto:vivenziolaw@rockisland.com><br>
<br>
CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION<br>
E-mails from this firm normally contain confidential and privileged material, are for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain material protected by HIPAA, ERISA or other federal or state law and/or may be protected by legal privileges. Use or
distribution by an unintended recipient is prohibited, and may be a violation of law. If you believe that you received this e-mail in error, please do not read this e-mail or any attached items. Please delete the e-mail and all attachments, including any copies
thereof, and inform the sender that you have deleted the e-mail, all attachments and any copies thereof. Thank you.<br>
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Message: 5<br>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 21:24:17 +0000<br>
From: Eric Nelsen <Eric@sayrelawoffices.com><br>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Inherited mortgage<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<8CF6ADB264BB704BB884B2ED9C1931D4019BF503C1@SBS2011.SayreLawOffices.local><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
John is probably right, but I vaguely recall an equitable doctrine that forbids a bank from foreclosing when the change in title is "internal" to the co-owners--that is, where the bank has already allowed title to held in names of A and B, a transfer of B's
interest to A leaves the bank in no worse position--and therefore foreclosure on such a technical change would be barred in equity.<br>
<br>
Same result as if, say, title is held 50/50 A and B, and A transfers a 25% interest resulting in 25/75. Technically it's a transfer in violation of the covenant, but meaningless in terms of hypothetical impairment of the bank's interest.<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
<br>
Eric<br>
<br>
Eric C. Nelsen<br>
SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC<br>
1417 31st Ave South<br>
Seattle WA 98144-3909<br>
phone 206-625-0092<br>
fax 206-625-9040<br>
<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of John J. Sullivan<br>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 8:38 PM<br>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Inherited mortgage<br>
<br>
Lisa:<br>
<br>
Yes, but the transfer from decedent was exempt to B&S. I am skeptical that B's subsequent transfer to S is covered by GSG.<br>
<br>
John J. Sullivan<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br>
<br>
On Oct 11, 2017, at 6:06 PM, Lisa E Schuchman <lisa@lisaschuchman.com<mailto:lisa@lisaschuchman.com>> wrote:<br>
John,<br>
<br>
That's my big question, too. As long as S is still there, in theory it shouldn't be a problem. But like I said, some banks haven't even heard of G-St. G, so who knows how they'd handle it.<br>
<br>
On Oct 11, 2017, at 6:04 PM, John J. Sullivan <sullaw@comcast.net<mailto:sullaw@comcast.net>> wrote:<br>
Lisa:<br>
<br>
If decedent is the only one on the note, lender can only foreclose - cannot go after B or S for deficiency. Usually in these scenarios clients muddle through and as long as payments continue to be timely the lender is satisfied.<br>
<br>
I agree with Eric that since B is not being relieved of personal liability there is no consideration to him from S for REET purposes.<br>
<br>
I do have one concern though. While Garn-St. Germaine exempts the transfer from decedent to B&S jointly at death, in not sure it exempts the subsequent transfer of B's interest to S by gift for purposes of due on sale. I'd argue there's no trigger because one
of the heirs still owns now the whole. But I'm not sure of that one.<br>
<br>
John J. Sullivan<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br>
<br>
On Oct 11, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Eric Nelsen <Eric@sayrelawoffices.com<mailto:Eric@sayrelawoffices.com>> wrote:<br>
Agree with John. Personal obligation to pay a debt is determined by who signed the Promissory Note. A mortgage (Deed of Trust) is just an agreement to let the bank seize the house if the Note isn't paid.<br>
<br>
If mother is the only signer of the Note, then B and S have no personal liability for the debt no matter what. Their inherited ownership of the house is subject to the lender's mortgage and right to foreclose for non-payment, so B and S have practical reasons
to pay the debt they aren't liable for...but no matter what B and S do with transfers of ownership, they aren't liable to lender on the original debt.<br>
<br>
If B gift-quitclaims to S, there is still no need for indemnity that I can see, because B remains free of personal obligation on the Note.<br>
<br>
Under that scenario, I think there is no REET due either. See WAC 458-61A-103(2)<http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=458-61A-103>.<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
<br>
Eric<br>
<br>
Eric C. Nelsen<br>
SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC<br>
1417 31st Ave South<br>
Seattle WA 98144-3909<br>
phone 206-625-0092<br>
fax 206-625-9040<br>
<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of John J. Sullivan<br>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 2:41 PM<br>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Inherited mortgage<br>
<br>
So B and S are both mortgagors on the existing mortgage? Or was the mortgage taken out by the decedent they inherited the property from? If the latter, neither is personally obligated on the underlying note.<br>
<br>
If the former, B remains liable directly to lender under the promissory note. He would have to secure a release from the lender, which is rarely granted without S refinancing and qualifying separately.<br>
<br>
Secure indemnification agreement with second position deed of trust? If brother is relieved of liability at time of transfer there might be consideration for REET purposes.<br>
<br>
John J. Sullivan<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br>
<br>
On Oct 11, 2017, at 2:27 PM, Lisa E Schuchman <lisa@lisaschuchman.com<mailto:lisa@lisaschuchman.com>> wrote:<br>
Sister (S) and brother (B), both adults, inherited a house from their mother on her death. We?re getting ready to close the probate and transfer title to them. They understand that they can keep the existing mortgage without additional need to qualify. But
if B later gifts his share of the house to S, can B disentangle himself from the mortgage obligation and leave S fully liable? I know that Garn-St. Germain wouldn?t apply to that transfer, but since S is already in the place of the mortgagor can B get out
of it? Does anyone have a better suggestion?<br>
<br>
Thanks.<br>
<br>
Lisa E. Schuchman<br>
206-960-4212<br>
<a href="http://www.lisaschuchman.com<http://www.lisaschuchman.com/">www.lisaschuchman.com<http://www.lisaschuchman.com/</a>><br>
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I learn, I give. ? Gloria Steinem<br>
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Message: 6<br>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 21:44:55 +0000<br>
From: "Brink, Kerry" <Kbrink@vjglaw.com><br>
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Financial POA<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<C98943B9998C9C46B51D0A15239656E8DD432FCD@vjgtac2-mail.vjglaw.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
<a href="http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=11.125.200">http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=11.125.200</a><br>
<br>
There is always this - last paragraph would require bank to pay reasonable fees for failing to honor the Power of Attorney.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Kerry<br>
Kerry E. Brink * Attorney at Law<br>
<br>
Estate Planning, Probate, Elder Law<br>
<br>
[VJG logo]<br>
Direct: 253-591-8571<br>
www.vjglaw.com<<a href="http://www.vjglaw.com/">http://www.vjglaw.com/</a>><br>
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From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Anthony Vivenzio<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 1:45 PM<br>
To: wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com<br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Financial POA<br>
<br>
Listmates:<br>
Client giver POA to her son. Son goes to Key Bank to access Revocable Trust account with POA that specifically incorporates the statutes (11.125.240, 11.125.300, 11.125.330). Key Bank essentially says they are a federal bank and do not have to honor a Washington
State POA. Any thoughts or suggestions?<br>
<br>
Anthony D. Vivenzio,<br>
Attorney and Counselor at Law<br>
PO Box 208<br>
540 Guard Street, Ste. 260<br>
Friday Harbor, WA 98250<br>
(360) 378-6860<br>
vivenziolaw@rockisland.com<mailto:vivenziolaw@rockisland.com><br>
<br>
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Message: 7<br>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 22:30:35 +0000<br>
From: Sharon Rutberg <sharon@salmonbaylaw.com><br>
To: "wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<MWHPR1001MB22559D216AB7EA5BD7F177D3AE4B0@MWHPR1001MB2255.namprd10.prod.outlook.com><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Hi, listmates --<br>
<br>
<br>
Client's husband died without a will. The couple owned their home as community property and neither spouse has any children. We do not want to open estate administration for the husband (due to lack of need and privacy concerns). But we do want to transfer
the wife's interest into her revocable living trust (created also for privacy concerns).<br>
<br>
<br>
Do we need to record a document reflecting the transfer by intestate succession of the house to the wife as sole owner before she can quit claim the property into her RLT? If so, how so we do that? We have created a lack of probate affidavit attesting that
surviving spouse is the rightful heir to the property. Can we record that (along with a death certificate and a REET affidavit) to document the transfer? Do we need a deed instrument in addition?<br>
<br>
I've heard varying things from different sources. Any clarification would be appreciated!<br>
<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Sharon<br>
<br>
<br>
Sharon C. Rutberg, Attorney at Law<br>
<br>
Salmon Bay Law Group, PLLC<br>
<br>
1734 NW Market St.<br>
<br>
Seattle, WA 98107<br>
<br>
206-735-3177, ext. 2<br>
<br>
sharon@salmonbaylaw.com<mailto:sharon@salmonbaylaw.com><br>
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Message: 8<br>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 22:50:32 +0000<br>
From: James Bates <James.Bates@lucelawfirm.com><br>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Financial POA<br>
Message-ID:<br>
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<br>
1. Key Bank is insane. Heck, I'm shocked they aren't applying Ohio law.<br>
2. I have always struggled with this question from a conceptional standpoint. I would infer that 11.125.240(g) requires some language in the trust which would allow the trustor/trustee to delegate their authority under a POA. Absent that language, I'm
not sure language in a POA is enough to access trust accounts. (Not that it matters much, but I know this is the UTC position, that both the POA and the Trust must allow the delegation.) Any reason not to install the son as a Trustee to access the accounts?
In my opinion, it is a best practice to have the Trustee control the trust accounts and the POA be used for non-trust accounts.<br>
<br>
James Bates, Attorney<br>
Luce & Associates, P.S.<br>
4505 Pacific Hwy. E., Suite A<br>
Tacoma, WA 98424<br>
T: (253) 922-8724<br>
F: (253) 922-2802<br>
www.LuceLawFirm.com<<a href="http://www.LuceLawFirm.com">http://www.LuceLawFirm.com</a>> [e943ecc8-5be2-4768-a17e-1b829b908afe] <<a href="https://www.facebook.com/pages/Luce-Kenney-Associates-PS/200703820101348">https://www.facebook.com/pages/Luce-Kenney-Associates-PS/200703820101348</a>><br>
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Message: 9<br>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:17:08 -0700<br>
From: "Anthony Vivenzio" <vivenziolaw@rockisland.com><br>
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Financial POA<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAALZByoMYm/dGiveHP4mZTTmihAAAEAAAAN58GX3hxY5HnR3r9aZzQ1IBAAAAAA==@rockisland.com><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Key bank quoted their Deposit Account Agreement and Funds Availability<br>
Policy Which states: Accounts not eligible for POA Designation: .Accounts<br>
owned by fiduciaries (estate, guardianship and trust accounts).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Anthony D. Vivenzio,<br>
<br>
Attorney and Counselor at Law<br>
<br>
PO Box 208<br>
<br>
540 Guard Street, Ste. 260<br>
<br>
Friday Harbor, WA 98250<br>
<br>
(360) 378-6860<br>
<br>
vivenziolaw@rockisland.com<br>
<br>
<br>
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From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com<br>
[<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Heather deVrieze<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 2:06 PM<br>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Financial POA<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Has the agent provided a sworn statement as described in 11.125.430? That<br>
together with a copy of 11.125.200 outlining or highlighting the timeline<br>
and reasons that the POA can be refused, and the remedies if it is<br>
unreasonably refused, might help. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Heather<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Heather S. de Vrieze<br>
Attorney-at-Law<br>
<br>
cid:image001.jpg@01D013C2.30F35160<br>
<br>
3909 California Avenue SW<br>
<br>
Seattle, WA 98116-3705 <br>
<br>
(206)938-5500 <br>
<br>
<<a href="mailto:heatherd@westseattlelaw.com">mailto:heatherd@westseattlelaw.com</a>> heatherd@westseattlelaw.com
<br>
<br>
<<a href="http://www.westseattlelaw.com/">http://www.westseattlelaw.com/</a>> <a href="http://www.westseattlelaw.com">
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<br>
Click here to connect with de Vrieze | Carney on Facebook:<br>
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From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com<br>
[<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Anthony Vivenzio<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 1:45 PM<br>
To: wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com<br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Financial POA<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Listmates:<br>
<br>
Client giver POA to her son. Son goes to Key Bank to access Revocable Trust<br>
account with POA that specifically incorporates the statutes (11.125.240,<br>
11.125.300, 11.125.330). Key Bank essentially says they are a federal bank<br>
and do not have to honor a Washington State POA. Any thoughts or<br>
suggestions?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Anthony D. Vivenzio,<br>
<br>
Attorney and Counselor at Law<br>
<br>
PO Box 208<br>
<br>
540 Guard Street, Ste. 260<br>
<br>
Friday Harbor, WA 98250<br>
<br>
(360) 378-6860<br>
<br>
vivenziolaw@rockisland.com<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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E-mails from this firm normally contain confidential and privileged<br>
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<br>
Message: 10<br>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 17:28:54 -0700<br>
From: "Mike Winslow" <mike@winslegal.com><br>
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Financial POA<br>
Message-ID: <003301d343ba$40caffe0$c260ffa0$@winslegal.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
If your client is still competent, consider amending the trust to add son as<br>
a Co-Trustee.<br>
<br>
Michael A. Winslow<br>
1204 Cleveland Ave.<br>
Mount Vernon, WA 98273<br>
Ph. 360-336-3321<br>
Em. Mike@winslegal.com<br>
<br>
This message is from an attorney, so it's confidential. If you are not the<br>
intended recipient, it's too late to stop reading this message, but you may<br>
not use it for any improper purpose. Huge Disclaimer available upon request.<br>
<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com<br>
[<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Anthony Vivenzio<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 4:17 PM<br>
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'<br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Financial POA<br>
<br>
Key bank quoted their Deposit Account Agreement and Funds Availability<br>
Policy Which states: Accounts not eligible for POA Designation: .Accounts<br>
owned by fiduciaries (estate, guardianship and trust accounts).<br>
<br>
Anthony D. Vivenzio,<br>
Attorney and Counselor at Law<br>
PO Box 208<br>
540 Guard Street, Ste. 260<br>
Friday Harbor, WA 98250<br>
(360) 378-6860<br>
vivenziolaw@rockisland.com<br>
<br>
CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION<br>
E-mails from this firm normally contain confidential and privileged<br>
material, are for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain<br>
material protected by HIPAA, ERISA or other federal or state law and/or may<br>
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<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com<br>
[<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Heather deVrieze<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 2:06 PM<br>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Financial POA<br>
<br>
Has the agent provided a sworn statement as described in 11.125.430? That<br>
together with a copy of 11.125.200 outlining or highlighting the timeline<br>
and reasons that the POA can be refused, and the remedies if it is<br>
unreasonably refused, might help. <br>
<br>
Heather<br>
<br>
<br>
Heather S. de Vrieze<br>
Attorney-at-Law<br>
cid:image001.jpg@01D013C2.30F35160<br>
3909 California Avenue SW<br>
Seattle, WA 98116-3705 <br>
(206)938-5500 <br>
<<a href="mailto:heatherd@westseattlelaw.com">mailto:heatherd@westseattlelaw.com</a>> heatherd@westseattlelaw.com
<br>
<<a href="http://www.westseattlelaw.com/">http://www.westseattlelaw.com/</a>> <a href="http://www.westseattlelaw.com">
www.westseattlelaw.com</a> <br>
Click here to connect with de Vrieze | Carney on Facebook:<br>
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From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com<br>
[<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Anthony Vivenzio<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 1:45 PM<br>
To: wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com<br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Financial POA<br>
<br>
Listmates:<br>
Client giver POA to her son. Son goes to Key Bank to access Revocable Trust<br>
account with POA that specifically incorporates the statutes (11.125.240,<br>
11.125.300, 11.125.330). Key Bank essentially says they are a federal bank<br>
and do not have to honor a Washington State POA. Any thoughts or<br>
suggestions?<br>
<br>
Anthony D. Vivenzio,<br>
Attorney and Counselor at Law<br>
PO Box 208<br>
540 Guard Street, Ste. 260<br>
Friday Harbor, WA 98250<br>
(360) 378-6860<br>
vivenziolaw@rockisland.com<br>
<br>
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<br>
Message: 11<br>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 17:34:25 -0700<br>
From: "Mike Winslow" <mike@winslegal.com><br>
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question<br>
Message-ID: <003901d343bb$05e69820$11b3c860$@winslegal.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
I have heard that the clerks in the tax assessor's offices tell people they<br>
need a deed. This happens is Skagit. Not necessary and not effective to<br>
transfer title. Redundant, waste of money, etc.<br>
The Lack of Probate affidavit is sufficient. Record it per the WAC, then,<br>
wife just deeds to Trust. Use a warranty deed, not a quit claim deed, to<br>
maintain title insurance coverage from original acquisition.<br>
<br>
See WAC 458-61A-202. Look at 6(i) for the process applicable to your<br>
matter.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Michael A. Winslow<br>
1204 Cleveland Ave.<br>
Mount Vernon, WA 98273<br>
Ph. 360-336-3321<br>
Em. Mike@winslegal.com<br>
<br>
This message is from an attorney, so it's confidential. If you are not the<br>
intended recipient, it's too late to stop reading this message, but you may<br>
not use it for any improper purpose. Huge Disclaimer available upon request.<br>
<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com<br>
[<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Sharon Rutberg<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 3:31 PM<br>
To: wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com<br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question<br>
<br>
Hi, listmates --<br>
<br>
Client's husband died without a will. The couple owned their home as<br>
community property and neither spouse has any children. We do not want to<br>
open estate administration for the husband (due to lack of need and privacy<br>
concerns). But we do want to transfer the wife's interest into her revocable<br>
living trust (created also for privacy concerns).<br>
<br>
Do we need to record a document reflecting the transfer by intestate<br>
succession of the house to the wife as sole owner before she can quit claim<br>
the property into her RLT? If so, how so we do that? We have created a lack<br>
of probate affidavit attesting that surviving spouse is the rightful heir to<br>
the property. Can we record that (along with a death certificate and a REET<br>
affidavit) to document the transfer? Do we need a deed instrument in<br>
addition? <br>
<br>
I've heard varying things from different sources. Any clarification would be<br>
appreciated!<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Sharon<br>
<br>
Sharon C. Rutberg, Attorney at Law<br>
Salmon Bay Law Group, PLLC<br>
1734 NW Market St.<br>
Seattle, WA 98107<br>
206-735-3177, ext. 2<br>
<<a href="mailto:sharon@salmonbaylaw.com">mailto:sharon@salmonbaylaw.com</a>> sharon@salmonbaylaw.com
<br>
Website: <a href="http://www.salmonbaylaw.com">www.salmonbaylaw.com</a><br>
Washington State Bar #47055<br>
<br>
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IRS Circular 230 Disclaimer: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed<br>
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<br>
Message: 12<br>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:47:36 +0000<br>
From: "Goffe, Wendy S." <wendy.goffe@stoel.com><br>
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Newport, Oregon<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<1C395378C1FB614F8296822AA87FF8D4020FA8E184@DC1-EXDAG01.stoel.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Any recommendations for an estate planning attorney in or near Newport, Oregon?<br>
<br>
Wendy S. Goffe | Partner<br>
STOEL RIVES LLP | 600 University Street, Suite 3600 | Seattle, WA 98101-4109<br>
Direct: (206) 386-7565 | Fax: (206) 386-7500<br>
wendy.goffe@stoel.com<mailto:wendy.goffe@stoel.com> | Bio<<a href="http://www.stoel.com/showbio.aspx?show=9346">http://www.stoel.com/showbio.aspx?show=9346</a>> | vCard<<a href="http://www.stoel.com/getvcard.asp?id=9346">http://www.stoel.com/getvcard.asp?id=9346</a>>
| www.stoel.com<<a href="http://www.stoel.com/">http://www.stoel.com/</a>><br>
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<br>
Message: 13<br>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:45:00 +0000<br>
From: Paul Neumiller <pneumiller@hotmail.com><br>
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CY1PR1101MB1225B13A3E17BADA5522EA19D2480@CY1PR1101MB1225.namprd11.prod.outlook.com><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
<br>
This really goes against my understanding. Those WACs only address exemption from the Excise Tax, not the transfer of title. In the absence of a recorded Community Property Agreement or a recorded Transfer On Death Deed or a probated estate, a Lack of Probate
Affidavit is only effective if a title company is willing to accept it in terms of insuring a sale of the property. I sure hope Dwight Bickel or some other title person chimes in here. While the widow can record the deed (or the Affidavit), the real test
will come at a later time when a title company is asked to insure a sale of the property. Now, if that sale is ten years down the road, an insurance company may feel it?s a safe enough transaction to insure because of the passage of time but I doubt an insurance
company will accept the Affidavit if the sale is within two years.<br>
<br>
I have advised my clients that it is safest to probate the estate to ensure later title insurance on a sale of the property. It has been my analysis that the title companies are currently willing to insure the transfer of title using a an Affidavit of Lack
of Probate until they, as an industry, get burned by a lawsuit involving an Affidavit, the case will hit the conservative title insurance industry like a tsunami, and then their ?acceptance? of an Affidavit will dissolve. That may force the widow to go back
and probate the estate.<br>
<br>
[cid:image002.jpg@01D343FD.9BBA2190]<br>
<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Mike Winslow<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 5:34 PM<br>
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question<br>
<br>
I have heard that the clerks in the tax assessor?s offices tell people they need a deed. This happens is Skagit. Not necessary and not effective to transfer title. Redundant, waste of money, etc.<br>
The Lack of Probate affidavit is sufficient. Record it per the WAC, then, wife just deeds to Trust. Use a warranty deed, not a quit claim deed, to maintain title insurance coverage from original acquisition.<br>
See WAC 458-61A-202. Look at 6(i) for the process applicable to your matter.<br>
<br>
<br>
Michael A. Winslow<br>
1204 Cleveland Ave.<br>
Mount Vernon, WA 98273<br>
Ph. 360-336-3321<br>
Em. Mike@winslegal.com<<a href="mailto:Mike@winslegal.com">mailto:Mike@winslegal.com</a>><br>
<br>
This message is from an attorney, so it?s confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, it?s too late to stop reading this message, but you may not use it for any improper purpose. Huge Disclaimer available upon request.<br>
<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Sharon Rutberg<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 3:31 PM<br>
To: wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi, listmates --<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Client's husband died without a will. The couple owned their home as community property and neither spouse has any children. We do not want to open estate administration for the husband (due to lack of need and privacy concerns). But we do want to transfer
the wife's interest into her revocable living trust (created also for privacy concerns).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Do we need to record a document reflecting the transfer by intestate succession of the house to the wife as sole owner before she can quit claim the property into her RLT? If so, how so we do that? We have created a lack of probate affidavit attesting that
surviving spouse is the rightful heir to the property. Can we record that (along with a death certificate and a REET affidavit) to document the transfer? Do we need a deed instrument in addition?<br>
<br>
I've heard varying things from different sources. Any clarification would be appreciated!<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Sharon<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Sharon C. Rutberg, Attorney at Law<br>
<br>
Salmon Bay Law Group, PLLC<br>
<br>
1734 NW Market St.<br>
<br>
Seattle, WA 98107<br>
<br>
206-735-3177, ext. 2<br>
<br>
sharon@salmonbaylaw.com<mailto:sharon@salmonbaylaw.com><br>
<br>
Website: <a href="http://www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com">www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com</a>><br>
<br>
Washington State Bar #47055<br>
<br>
NOTICES<br>
The contents of this message and any attachments may be protected by the attorney-client privilege, work product doctrine, and/or other applicable protections. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this message in error, please notify the sender
and promptly delete the message. Thank you for your assistance.<br>
<br>
<br>
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IRS Circular 230 Disclaimer: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that to the extent this communication contains advice relating to a Federal tax issue, it is not intended or written to be used, and it may not be used, for
(i) the purpose of avoiding any penalties that may be imposed on you or any other person or entity under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting or marketing to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
Message: 14<br>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 08:53:29 -0700<br>
From: John McCrady <j.mccrady@pstitle.com><br>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Financial POA<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<A8106026B40C9544A17DC5E44A2003EE022A40F5B7CF@PSTMAILV.pstitle.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
I would think that in order for the POA to be effective for this use you would need:<br>
<br>
1) The trust agreement would need to authorize the trustee to appoint an attorney in fact to act for the trustee.<br>
<br>
2) The POA would need to apply to action as trustee.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
John McCrady<br>
Counsel<br>
Puget Sound Title Company<br>
5350 Orchard Street West<br>
University Place WA 98467<br>
253-476-5721<br>
j.mccrady@pstitle.com<br>
<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Brink, Kerry<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 2:45 PM<br>
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Financial POA<br>
<br>
<a href="http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=11.125.200">http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=11.125.200</a><br>
<br>
There is always this - last paragraph would require bank to pay reasonable fees for failing to honor the Power of Attorney.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Kerry<br>
Kerry E. Brink * Attorney at Law<br>
<br>
Estate Planning, Probate, Elder Law<br>
<br>
[cid:image001.png@01D34400.BD5E02A0]<br>
Direct: 253-591-8571<br>
www.vjglaw.com<<a href="http://www.vjglaw.com/">http://www.vjglaw.com/</a>><br>
______________________________<br>
This email and any files transmitted with it are from the law firm of Vandeberg Johnson & Gandara, LLP and may contain privileged, confidential, or protected information. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, or use of the contents
of this message or any attachments is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify us and delete this email and any attached files.<br>
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From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Anthony Vivenzio<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 1:45 PM<br>
To: wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Financial POA<br>
<br>
Listmates:<br>
Client giver POA to her son. Son goes to Key Bank to access Revocable Trust account with POA that specifically incorporates the statutes (11.125.240, 11.125.300, 11.125.330). Key Bank essentially says they are a federal bank and do not have to honor a Washington
State POA. Any thoughts or suggestions?<br>
<br>
Anthony D. Vivenzio,<br>
Attorney and Counselor at Law<br>
PO Box 208<br>
540 Guard Street, Ste. 260<br>
Friday Harbor, WA 98250<br>
(360) 378-6860<br>
vivenziolaw@rockisland.com<mailto:vivenziolaw@rockisland.com><br>
<br>
CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION<br>
E-mails from this firm normally contain confidential and privileged material, are for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain material protected by HIPAA, ERISA or other federal or state law and/or may be protected by legal privileges. Use or
distribution by an unintended recipient is prohibited, and may be a violation of law. If you believe that you received this e-mail in error, please do not read this e-mail or any attached items. Please delete the e-mail and all attachments, including any copies
thereof, and inform the sender that you have deleted the e-mail, all attachments and any copies thereof. Thank you.<br>
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<br>
Message: 15<br>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:58:01 +0000<br>
From: Kailei Feeney <kailei@westseattlelaw.com><br>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Newport, Oregon<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CY4PR08MB349640C59C5148017D239D14A7480@CY4PR08MB3496.namprd08.prod.outlook.com><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Wendy,<br>
<br>
I have worked with Mr. Holbrook on OR-WA estate administration and real property matters. I'm fairly certain he also does estate planning. If not, I'm at least certain he could provide you an additional contact:<br>
<br>
[Douglas R Holbrook]<br>
<br>
Kailei<br>
Kailei B. Feeney<br>
Attorney-at-Law<br>
[cid:image002.png@01CE1502.B7F074B0]<br>
3909 California Avenue SW<br>
Seattle, WA 98116-3705<br>
(206)938-5500<br>
kailei@westseattlelaw.com<mailto:kailei@westseattlelaw.com><br>
<a href="http://www.westseattlelaw.com<http://www.westseattlelaw.com/">www.westseattlelaw.com<http://www.westseattlelaw.com/</a>><br>
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From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Goffe, Wendy S.<br>
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 7:48 AM<br>
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'<br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Newport, Oregon<br>
<br>
Any recommendations for an estate planning attorney in or near Newport, Oregon?<br>
<br>
Wendy S. Goffe | Partner<br>
STOEL RIVES LLP | 600 University Street, Suite 3600 | Seattle, WA 98101-4109<br>
Direct: (206) 386-7565 | Fax: (206) 386-7500<br>
wendy.goffe@stoel.com<mailto:wendy.goffe@stoel.com> | Bio<<a href="http://www.stoel.com/showbio.aspx?show=9346">http://www.stoel.com/showbio.aspx?show=9346</a>> | vCard<<a href="http://www.stoel.com/getvcard.asp?id=9346">http://www.stoel.com/getvcard.asp?id=9346</a>>
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<br>
Message: 16<br>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 16:16:43 +0000<br>
From: Rebecca King <rebecca@nwelg.com><br>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<DM5PR10MB20272ABB8F427AB8E781E6FAB3480@DM5PR10MB2027.namprd10.prod.outlook.com><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
When a spouse passes and there is a need to demonstrate that the real property vests in the surviving spouse and there are no other probate assets, I generally advise surviving spouse to execute a Succession Affidavit which is recorded. The original will is
filed with the court. If a title company later refuses to insure based on the Succession Affidavit (which I have not personally experienced), we can open the probate at that later date. In most cases, we save the client significant fees and costs of probate.<br>
<br>
Sharon, have you considered getting title insurance on the transfer to the RLT? I would think that if a title company is willing to insure the transfer, you will be fine.<br>
<br>
Rebecca King<br>
Attorney<br>
<br>
PLEASE NOTE: Our new address is 2150 N. 107th Street, Suite 501, Seattle, WA 98133<br>
<br>
Northwest Elder Law Group<br>
2150 N. 107th Street, Suite 501<br>
Seattle, WA 98133<br>
Main: (206) 937-6102<br>
Direct: (206) 866-6544<br>
Fax: (206) 830-9326<br>
<br>
Providing Services in Elder Law<br>
<br>
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From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Paul Neumiller<br>
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 8:45 AM<br>
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'<br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question<br>
<br>
This really goes against my understanding. Those WACs only address exemption from the Excise Tax, not the transfer of title. In the absence of a recorded Community Property Agreement or a recorded Transfer On Death Deed or a probated estate, a Lack of Probate
Affidavit is only effective if a title company is willing to accept it in terms of insuring a sale of the property. I sure hope Dwight Bickel or some other title person chimes in here. While the widow can record the deed (or the Affidavit), the real test
will come at a later time when a title company is asked to insure a sale of the property. Now, if that sale is ten years down the road, an insurance company may feel it's a safe enough transaction to insure because of the passage of time but I doubt an insurance
company will accept the Affidavit if the sale is within two years.<br>
<br>
I have advised my clients that it is safest to probate the estate to ensure later title insurance on a sale of the property. It has been my analysis that the title companies are currently willing to insure the transfer of title using a an Affidavit of Lack
of Probate until they, as an industry, get burned by a lawsuit involving an Affidavit, the case will hit the conservative title insurance industry like a tsunami, and then their "acceptance" of an Affidavit will dissolve. That may force the widow to go back
and probate the estate.<br>
<br>
[cid:image002.jpg@01D34402.FEA78090]<br>
<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Mike Winslow<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 5:34 PM<br>
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com>><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question<br>
<br>
I have heard that the clerks in the tax assessor's offices tell people they need a deed. This happens is Skagit. Not necessary and not effective to transfer title. Redundant, waste of money, etc.<br>
The Lack of Probate affidavit is sufficient. Record it per the WAC, then, wife just deeds to Trust. Use a warranty deed, not a quit claim deed, to maintain title insurance coverage from original acquisition.<br>
See WAC 458-61A-202. Look at 6(i) for the process applicable to your matter.<br>
<br>
<br>
Michael A. Winslow<br>
1204 Cleveland Ave.<br>
Mount Vernon, WA 98273<br>
Ph. 360-336-3321<br>
Em. Mike@winslegal.com<<a href="mailto:Mike@winslegal.com">mailto:Mike@winslegal.com</a>><br>
<br>
This message is from an attorney, so it's confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, it's too late to stop reading this message, but you may not use it for any improper purpose. Huge Disclaimer available upon request.<br>
<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Sharon Rutberg<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 3:31 PM<br>
To: wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi, listmates --<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Client's husband died without a will. The couple owned their home as community property and neither spouse has any children. We do not want to open estate administration for the husband (due to lack of need and privacy concerns). But we do want to transfer
the wife's interest into her revocable living trust (created also for privacy concerns).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Do we need to record a document reflecting the transfer by intestate succession of the house to the wife as sole owner before she can quit claim the property into her RLT? If so, how so we do that? We have created a lack of probate affidavit attesting that
surviving spouse is the rightful heir to the property. Can we record that (along with a death certificate and a REET affidavit) to document the transfer? Do we need a deed instrument in addition?<br>
<br>
I've heard varying things from different sources. Any clarification would be appreciated!<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Sharon<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Sharon C. Rutberg, Attorney at Law<br>
<br>
Salmon Bay Law Group, PLLC<br>
<br>
1734 NW Market St.<br>
<br>
Seattle, WA 98107<br>
<br>
206-735-3177, ext. 2<br>
<br>
sharon@salmonbaylaw.com<mailto:sharon@salmonbaylaw.com><br>
<br>
Website: <a href="http://www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com">www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com</a>><br>
<br>
Washington State Bar #47055<br>
<br>
NOTICES<br>
The contents of this message and any attachments may be protected by the attorney-client privilege, work product doctrine, and/or other applicable protections. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this message in error, please notify the sender
and promptly delete the message. Thank you for your assistance.<br>
<br>
<br>
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IRS Circular 230 Disclaimer: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that to the extent this communication contains advice relating to a Federal tax issue, it is not intended or written to be used, and it may not be used, for
(i) the purpose of avoiding any penalties that may be imposed on you or any other person or entity under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting or marketing to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.<br>
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<br>
Message: 17<br>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:18:13 -0700<br>
From: "Mike Winslow" <mike@winslegal.com><br>
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question<br>
Message-ID: <003001d3443e$deee59e0$9ccb0da0$@winslegal.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Title vests in the surviving spouse if a couple takes title as "husband and<br>
wife", absent a will that disposes of the one half interest of the decedent<br>
otherwise.<br>
Further, title vests in the heirs at law without the requirement of probate<br>
under:<br>
RCW 11.04.250<br>
When real estate vests-Rights of heirs.<br>
When a person dies seized of lands, tenements or hereditaments, or any right<br>
thereto or entitled to any interest therein in fee or for the life of<br>
another, his or her title shall vest immediately in his or her heirs or<br>
devisees, subject to his or her debts, family allowance, expenses of<br>
administration, and any other charges for which such real estate is liable<br>
under existing laws. No administration of the estate of such decedent, and<br>
no decree of distribution or other finding or order of any court shall be<br>
necessary in any case to vest such title in the heirs or devisees, but the<br>
same shall vest in the heirs or devisees instantly upon the death of such<br>
decedent: PROVIDED, That no person shall be deemed a devisee until the will<br>
has been probated. The title and right to possession of such lands,<br>
tenements, or hereditaments so vested in such heirs or devisees, together<br>
with the rents, issues, and profits thereof, shall be good and valid against<br>
all persons claiming adversely to the claims of any such heirs, or devisees,<br>
excepting only the personal representative when appointed, and persons<br>
lawfully claiming under such personal representative; and any one or more of<br>
such heirs or devisees, or their grantees, jointly or severally, may sue for<br>
and recover their respective shares or interests in any such lands,<br>
tenements, or hereditaments and the rents, issues, and profits thereof,<br>
whether letters testamentary or of administration be granted or not, from<br>
any person except the personal representative and those lawfully claiming<br>
under such personal representative.<br>
<br>
<br>
Michael A. Winslow<br>
1204 Cleveland Ave.<br>
Mount Vernon, WA 98273<br>
Ph. 360-336-3321<br>
Em. Mike@winslegal.com<br>
<br>
This message is from an attorney, so it's confidential. If you are not the<br>
intended recipient, it's too late to stop reading this message, but you may<br>
not use it for any improper purpose. Huge Disclaimer available upon request.<br>
<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com<br>
[<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Paul Neumiller<br>
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 8:45 AM<br>
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'<br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question<br>
<br>
This really goes against my understanding. Those WACs only address<br>
exemption from the Excise Tax, not the transfer of title. In the absence of<br>
a recorded Community Property Agreement or a recorded Transfer On Death Deed<br>
or a probated estate, a Lack of Probate Affidavit is only effective if a<br>
title company is willing to accept it in terms of insuring a sale of the<br>
property. I sure hope Dwight Bickel or some other title person chimes in<br>
here. While the widow can record the deed (or the Affidavit), the real test<br>
will come at a later time when a title company is asked to insure a sale of<br>
the property. Now, if that sale is ten years down the road, an insurance<br>
company may feel it's a safe enough transaction to insure because of the<br>
passage of time but I doubt an insurance company will accept the Affidavit<br>
if the sale is within two years.<br>
<br>
I have advised my clients that it is safest to probate the estate to ensure<br>
later title insurance on a sale of the property. It has been my analysis<br>
that the title companies are currently willing to insure the transfer of<br>
title using a an Affidavit of Lack of Probate until they, as an industry,<br>
get burned by a lawsuit involving an Affidavit, the case will hit the<br>
conservative title insurance industry like a tsunami, and then their<br>
"acceptance" of an Affidavit will dissolve. That may force the widow to go<br>
back and probate the estate.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com<br>
[<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Mike Winslow<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 5:34 PM<br>
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question<br>
<br>
I have heard that the clerks in the tax assessor's offices tell people they<br>
need a deed. This happens is Skagit. Not necessary and not effective to<br>
transfer title. Redundant, waste of money, etc.<br>
The Lack of Probate affidavit is sufficient. Record it per the WAC, then,<br>
wife just deeds to Trust. Use a warranty deed, not a quit claim deed, to<br>
maintain title insurance coverage from original acquisition.<br>
<br>
See WAC 458-61A-202. Look at 6(i) for the process applicable to your<br>
matter.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Michael A. Winslow<br>
1204 Cleveland Ave.<br>
Mount Vernon, WA 98273<br>
Ph. 360-336-3321<br>
Em. Mike@winslegal.com<br>
<br>
This message is from an attorney, so it's confidential. If you are not the<br>
intended recipient, it's too late to stop reading this message, but you may<br>
not use it for any improper purpose. Huge Disclaimer available upon request.<br>
<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com<br>
[<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Sharon Rutberg<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 3:31 PM<br>
To: wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com<br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question<br>
<br>
Hi, listmates --<br>
<br>
Client's husband died without a will. The couple owned their home as<br>
community property and neither spouse has any children. We do not want to<br>
open estate administration for the husband (due to lack of need and privacy<br>
concerns). But we do want to transfer the wife's interest into her revocable<br>
living trust (created also for privacy concerns).<br>
<br>
Do we need to record a document reflecting the transfer by intestate<br>
succession of the house to the wife as sole owner before she can quit claim<br>
the property into her RLT? If so, how so we do that? We have created a lack<br>
of probate affidavit attesting that surviving spouse is the rightful heir to<br>
the property. Can we record that (along with a death certificate and a REET<br>
affidavit) to document the transfer? Do we need a deed instrument in<br>
addition? <br>
<br>
I've heard varying things from different sources. Any clarification would be<br>
appreciated!<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Sharon<br>
<br>
Sharon C. Rutberg, Attorney at Law<br>
Salmon Bay Law Group, PLLC<br>
1734 NW Market St.<br>
Seattle, WA 98107<br>
206-735-3177, ext. 2<br>
<<a href="mailto:sharon@salmonbaylaw.com">mailto:sharon@salmonbaylaw.com</a>> sharon@salmonbaylaw.com
<br>
Website: <a href="http://www.salmonbaylaw.com">www.salmonbaylaw.com</a><br>
Washington State Bar #47055<br>
<br>
NOTICES<br>
The contents of this message and any attachments may be protected by the<br>
attorney-client privilege, work product doctrine, and/or other applicable<br>
protections. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this<br>
message in error, please notify the sender and promptly delete the message.<br>
Thank you for your assistance.<br>
<br>
IRS Circular 230 Disclaimer: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed<br>
by the IRS, we inform you that to the extent this communication contains<br>
advice relating to a Federal tax issue, it is not intended or written to be<br>
used, and it may not be used, for (i) the purpose of avoiding any penalties<br>
that may be imposed on you or any other person or entity under the Internal<br>
Revenue Code or (ii) promoting or marketing to another party any transaction<br>
or matter addressed herein. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
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<br>
Message: 18<br>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:22:55 -0700<br>
From: "Cyrus Field" <cyfield@rockisland.com><br>
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Newport, Oregon<br>
Message-ID: <01cf01d3443f$88359e00$98a0da00$@com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Hi Wendy-FWIW, my folks retired to Newport and used Brian Haggerty<br>
(541-265-8888) for revising their RLT and handling my Dad's estate. My mom<br>
was pleased with his services. Good luck, Cy<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Cyrus W. Field, Attorney at Law (admitted in Washington and Oregon)<br>
<br>
phone: 360-472-1223 Mail: POB 367, Shaw Island, WA 98286 Office: 640 Mullis<br>
St. Friday Harbor, WA<br>
<br>
******************************************************************<br>
<br>
The information contained in this e-mail message, including attachments, may<br>
be privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not<br>
the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying is<br>
strictly prohibited. If you think you have received this e-mail in error,<br>
please e-mail the sender at cyfield@rockisland.com and destroy or delete the<br>
original and any copies. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com<br>
[<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Goffe, Wendy S.<br>
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 7:48 AM<br>
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'<br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Newport, Oregon<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Any recommendations for an estate planning attorney in or near Newport,<br>
Oregon?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Wendy S. Goffe | Partner<br>
STOEL RIVES LLP | 600 University Street, Suite 3600 | Seattle, WA 98101-4109<br>
Direct: (206) 386-7565 | Fax: (206) 386-7500<br>
wendy.goffe@stoel.com | Bio <<a href="http://www.stoel.com/showbio.aspx?show=9346">http://www.stoel.com/showbio.aspx?show=9346</a>> |<br>
vCard <<a href="http://www.stoel.com/getvcard.asp?id=9346">http://www.stoel.com/getvcard.asp?id=9346</a>> |
<a href="http://www.stoel.com">www.stoel.com</a><br>
<<a href="http://www.stoel.com/">http://www.stoel.com/</a>> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or<br>
attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any<br>
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<br>
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<br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 19<br>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:32:02 -0700<br>
From: John McCrady <j.mccrady@pstitle.com><br>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<A8106026B40C9544A17DC5E44A2003EE022A40F5B7E0@PSTMAILV.pstitle.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Most title people wouldn't disagree with your analysis. Probate is the better alternative. Title companies have used the lack of probate solution as an accommodation to people who, for whatever reason, (usually cost) don't want to probate the deceased's estate.<br>
We do try to analyze the perceived risk of each situation; the surviving spouse usually being viewed as the safest situation. My company has not had any loss claims directly related to our acceptance of a lack of probate affidavit.<br>
But you are correct when you say that a big loss claim by one of the insurers will make many of the insurers more reluctant to accept the affidavits.<br>
It is easy to imagine a surviving spouse "forgetting" to mention a daughter of the deceased and a will that left the house to her.<br>
<br>
John McCrady<br>
Counsel<br>
Puget Sound Title Company<br>
5350 Orchard Street West<br>
University Place WA 98467<br>
253-476-5721<br>
j.mccrady@pstitle.com<br>
<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Paul Neumiller<br>
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 8:45 AM<br>
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question<br>
<br>
This really goes against my understanding. Those WACs only address exemption from the Excise Tax, not the transfer of title. In the absence of a recorded Community Property Agreement or a recorded Transfer On Death Deed or a probated estate, a Lack of Probate
Affidavit is only effective if a title company is willing to accept it in terms of insuring a sale of the property. I sure hope Dwight Bickel or some other title person chimes in here. While the widow can record the deed (or the Affidavit), the real test
will come at a later time when a title company is asked to insure a sale of the property. Now, if that sale is ten years down the road, an insurance company may feel it's a safe enough transaction to insure because of the passage of time but I doubt an insurance
company will accept the Affidavit if the sale is within two years.<br>
<br>
I have advised my clients that it is safest to probate the estate to ensure later title insurance on a sale of the property. It has been my analysis that the title companies are currently willing to insure the transfer of title using a an Affidavit of Lack
of Probate until they, as an industry, get burned by a lawsuit involving an Affidavit, the case will hit the conservative title insurance industry like a tsunami, and then their "acceptance" of an Affidavit will dissolve. That may force the widow to go back
and probate the estate.<br>
<br>
[cid:image001.jpg@01D34406.207A60E0]<br>
<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Mike Winslow<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 5:34 PM<br>
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com>><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question<br>
<br>
I have heard that the clerks in the tax assessor's offices tell people they need a deed. This happens is Skagit. Not necessary and not effective to transfer title. Redundant, waste of money, etc.<br>
The Lack of Probate affidavit is sufficient. Record it per the WAC, then, wife just deeds to Trust. Use a warranty deed, not a quit claim deed, to maintain title insurance coverage from original acquisition.<br>
See WAC 458-61A-202. Look at 6(i) for the process applicable to your matter.<br>
<br>
<br>
Michael A. Winslow<br>
1204 Cleveland Ave.<br>
Mount Vernon, WA 98273<br>
Ph. 360-336-3321<br>
Em. Mike@winslegal.com<<a href="mailto:Mike@winslegal.com">mailto:Mike@winslegal.com</a>><br>
<br>
This message is from an attorney, so it's confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, it's too late to stop reading this message, but you may not use it for any improper purpose. Huge Disclaimer available upon request.<br>
<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Sharon Rutberg<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 3:31 PM<br>
To: wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi, listmates --<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Client's husband died without a will. The couple owned their home as community property and neither spouse has any children. We do not want to open estate administration for the husband (due to lack of need and privacy concerns). But we do want to transfer
the wife's interest into her revocable living trust (created also for privacy concerns).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Do we need to record a document reflecting the transfer by intestate succession of the house to the wife as sole owner before she can quit claim the property into her RLT? If so, how so we do that? We have created a lack of probate affidavit attesting that
surviving spouse is the rightful heir to the property. Can we record that (along with a death certificate and a REET affidavit) to document the transfer? Do we need a deed instrument in addition?<br>
<br>
I've heard varying things from different sources. Any clarification would be appreciated!<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Sharon<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Sharon C. Rutberg, Attorney at Law<br>
<br>
Salmon Bay Law Group, PLLC<br>
<br>
1734 NW Market St.<br>
<br>
Seattle, WA 98107<br>
<br>
206-735-3177, ext. 2<br>
<br>
sharon@salmonbaylaw.com<mailto:sharon@salmonbaylaw.com><br>
<br>
Website: <a href="http://www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com">www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com</a>><br>
<br>
Washington State Bar #47055<br>
<br>
NOTICES<br>
The contents of this message and any attachments may be protected by the attorney-client privilege, work product doctrine, and/or other applicable protections. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this message in error, please notify the sender
and promptly delete the message. Thank you for your assistance.<br>
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(i) the purpose of avoiding any penalties that may be imposed on you or any other person or entity under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting or marketing to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.<br>
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Message: 20<br>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 16:44:55 +0000<br>
From: Dalynne Singleton <dalynne@glgmail.com><br>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Lack of probate affidavit question<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CY1PR12MB0603E68F4A2380090D3E3A19A5480@CY1PR12MB0603.namprd12.prod.outlook.com><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Not exactly the same facts but we have run into something recently where my client (wife) held onto property after her husband died in 2012. They had been married over 40 years. His Will was filed with the clerk of the court but no probate was opened. The
wife decided to sell in 2017 and title gave us a complete runaround when it was discovered that the husband had a prior wife from whom he divorced who was on the title to the property and she subsequently died in 1978. Her death certificate showed she had
remarried. We could find NO heirs, no divorce papers or her 2nd husband. Her estate was never probated.<br>
<br>
Ticor Title and Chicago Title didn't want to close without seeing the divorce papers from the 1960s. We couldn't find them.<br>
Finally, it closed with my push back that a quiet title action would delay closing several months.<br>
<br>
If you wait to file probate, the surviving spouse might have died and then you leave title to 2 people who are both deceased. I guess in my experience, it is better to probate now and have title vest properly.<br>
<br>
[cid:image001.png@01D34407.E9EE6150]<br>
<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Rebecca King<br>
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 9:17 AM<br>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question<br>
<br>
When a spouse passes and there is a need to demonstrate that the real property vests in the surviving spouse and there are no other probate assets, I generally advise surviving spouse to execute a Succession Affidavit which is recorded. The original will is
filed with the court. If a title company later refuses to insure based on the Succession Affidavit (which I have not personally experienced), we can open the probate at that later date. In most cases, we save the client significant fees and costs of probate.<br>
<br>
Sharon, have you considered getting title insurance on the transfer to the RLT? I would think that if a title company is willing to insure the transfer, you will be fine.<br>
<br>
Rebecca King<br>
Attorney<br>
<br>
PLEASE NOTE: Our new address is 2150 N. 107th Street, Suite 501, Seattle, WA 98133<br>
<br>
Northwest Elder Law Group<br>
2150 N. 107th Street, Suite 501<br>
Seattle, WA 98133<br>
Main: (206) 937-6102<br>
Direct: (206) 866-6544<br>
Fax: (206) 830-9326<br>
<br>
Providing Services in Elder Law<br>
<br>
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information protected by law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.
If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.<br>
<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Paul Neumiller<br>
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 8:45 AM<br>
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'<br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question<br>
<br>
This really goes against my understanding. Those WACs only address exemption from the Excise Tax, not the transfer of title. In the absence of a recorded Community Property Agreement or a recorded Transfer On Death Deed or a probated estate, a Lack of Probate
Affidavit is only effective if a title company is willing to accept it in terms of insuring a sale of the property. I sure hope Dwight Bickel or some other title person chimes in here. While the widow can record the deed (or the Affidavit), the real test
will come at a later time when a title company is asked to insure a sale of the property. Now, if that sale is ten years down the road, an insurance company may feel it's a safe enough transaction to insure because of the passage of time but I doubt an insurance
company will accept the Affidavit if the sale is within two years.<br>
<br>
I have advised my clients that it is safest to probate the estate to ensure later title insurance on a sale of the property. It has been my analysis that the title companies are currently willing to insure the transfer of title using a an Affidavit of Lack
of Probate until they, as an industry, get burned by a lawsuit involving an Affidavit, the case will hit the conservative title insurance industry like a tsunami, and then their "acceptance" of an Affidavit will dissolve. That may force the widow to go back
and probate the estate.<br>
<br>
[cid:image002.jpg@01D34407.E9EE6150]<br>
<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Mike Winslow<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 5:34 PM<br>
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com>><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question<br>
<br>
I have heard that the clerks in the tax assessor's offices tell people they need a deed. This happens is Skagit. Not necessary and not effective to transfer title. Redundant, waste of money, etc.<br>
The Lack of Probate affidavit is sufficient. Record it per the WAC, then, wife just deeds to Trust. Use a warranty deed, not a quit claim deed, to maintain title insurance coverage from original acquisition.<br>
See WAC 458-61A-202. Look at 6(i) for the process applicable to your matter.<br>
<br>
<br>
Michael A. Winslow<br>
1204 Cleveland Ave.<br>
Mount Vernon, WA 98273<br>
Ph. 360-336-3321<br>
Em. Mike@winslegal.com<<a href="mailto:Mike@winslegal.com">mailto:Mike@winslegal.com</a>><br>
<br>
This message is from an attorney, so it's confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, it's too late to stop reading this message, but you may not use it for any improper purpose. Huge Disclaimer available upon request.<br>
<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Sharon Rutberg<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 3:31 PM<br>
To: wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi, listmates --<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Client's husband died without a will. The couple owned their home as community property and neither spouse has any children. We do not want to open estate administration for the husband (due to lack of need and privacy concerns). But we do want to transfer
the wife's interest into her revocable living trust (created also for privacy concerns).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Do we need to record a document reflecting the transfer by intestate succession of the house to the wife as sole owner before she can quit claim the property into her RLT? If so, how so we do that? We have created a lack of probate affidavit attesting that
surviving spouse is the rightful heir to the property. Can we record that (along with a death certificate and a REET affidavit) to document the transfer? Do we need a deed instrument in addition?<br>
<br>
I've heard varying things from different sources. Any clarification would be appreciated!<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Sharon<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Sharon C. Rutberg, Attorney at Law<br>
<br>
Salmon Bay Law Group, PLLC<br>
<br>
1734 NW Market St.<br>
<br>
Seattle, WA 98107<br>
<br>
206-735-3177, ext. 2<br>
<br>
sharon@salmonbaylaw.com<mailto:sharon@salmonbaylaw.com><br>
<br>
Website: <a href="http://www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com">www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com</a>><br>
<br>
Washington State Bar #47055<br>
<br>
NOTICES<br>
The contents of this message and any attachments may be protected by the attorney-client privilege, work product doctrine, and/or other applicable protections. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this message in error, please notify the sender
and promptly delete the message. Thank you for your assistance.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
IRS Circular 230 Disclaimer: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that to the extent this communication contains advice relating to a Federal tax issue, it is not intended or written to be used, and it may not be used, for
(i) the purpose of avoiding any penalties that may be imposed on you or any other person or entity under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting or marketing to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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End of WSBAPT Digest, Vol 37, Issue 11<br>
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