[Vision2020] WTF?
Dave
tiedye at turbonet.com
Fri Mar 9 18:54:40 PST 2012
I have always thought that the Columbia Gorge would be ideal location
for pumped-hydroelectric systems (much more efficient then current water
separation techniques BTW). Especially when I see all those turbines
inactive in a strong wind.
But, I don't expect it, it would just make too much sense!
Dave
On 03/08/2012 11:10 AM, Paul Rumelhart wrote:
> I don't know much about using electrolysis as energy storage, the ones
> I've seen associated with wind have always been water-based storage
> (i.e. pump water uphill into a reservoir and run it through pipes to
> spin turbines or whatever to get the energy back). I agree large
> capacity storage is desperately needed. Instead of letting the
> windmills stand unmoving, store their energy somewhere until the grid
> needs it. From what I've seen, there is a lot of work that needs to
> be done in this area. We should have lots of energy storage
> throughout the grid so that the load fluctuations are evened out. We
> need higher capacity and more efficient energy storage solutions to be
> developed, and we need to get even rudimentary ones deployed first
> before we open the floodgates and put up thousands of variable-load
> energy generation devices. We also need a grid smart enough to send
> the energy where it's needed by the shortest path from the nearest
> energy storage system.
>
> I think rushing headlong into alternative energy solutions without
> this system in place first is foolish.
>
> Paul
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 8, 2012 10:36 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] WTF?
>
> Large capacity storage: That is why electrolysis of water using the
> wind power is a possible solution. It takes into account the
> variablilty of wind and solar power and provides a means of storage
> and regeneration when the power is needed. This isn't my idea. The
> idea was around from the late 1960s.
>
> w.
>
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com
> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> Ultimately, the problem with wind power is that it's not a
> constant load solution. We need some kind of energy storage
> solution that is cost-effective, efficient, and high capacity.
> Then we can use wind and solar to recharge the energy storage
> system and be buffered from the vagaries of wind speed and cloud
> cover. Without that, we end up with a lot of our windmills not
> moving and our solar panels not receiving enough sunlight some of
> the time and falling short at others. We also need a smarter
> electrical grid that can handle the fluctuations better and be
> smart enough to route energy to these energy storage systems when
> needed. If the government wants to spend money on renewable
> energy, I would say spend it on electrical grid upgrades and
> large-capacity energy storage first. Or nuclear, which actually
> *is* a base-load solution.
>
> Paul
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com
> <mailto:art.deco.studios at gmail.com>>
> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 8, 2012 8:04 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] WTF?
>
> Thank you.
>
> It is a complex subject. But does it make sense to pay for power
> not produced when water can be left through the dams free?
>
> Those of us with $200 - $300 per month electricity bills fail to
> believe the cheapness argument.
>
> w.
>
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com
> <mailto:rforce2003 at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> I think it's something like this:
> Wind power is currently not price competitive with hydro-power
> or natural gas without state laws that require "green energy"
> and tax breaks. The cost of the machinery to electrolyze
> water, store the hydrogen, and turn it back into electricity
> would add to the already non-competitive cost of wind power.
>
> The Whistling Ridge project, just approved by Gregoire over
> the objections of conservationists, is on hold by the
> developers for economic reasons-- the price of electricity is
> so low they can't make it pencil out.
> Ron Force
> Moscow Idaho USA
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com
> <mailto:art.deco.studios at gmail.com>>
> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 7, 2012 6:03 PM
> *Subject:* [Vision2020] WTF?
>
> Why not use the excess power to electrolyze water into
> hydrogen and oxygen, store these gases, then use them to
> generate electricity when the demand is greater?
>
>
> http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03/07/wind-power-companies-paid-to-not-produce/?test=latestnews
>
> --
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> art.deco.studios at gmail.com <mailto:art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> <mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> =======================================================
>
>
>
>
> --
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> art.deco.studios at gmail.com <mailto:art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> =======================================================
>
>
>
>
> --
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> art.deco.studios at gmail.com <mailto:art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> =======================================================
>
>
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
> --
> Windows, OSX, or Linux is the same choice as:
> McDonald's, Burger King, or a (real) Co-Op.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20120309/b0e63d08/attachment-0001.html>
More information about the Vision2020
mailing list