[Vision2020] WTF?

[Paul Rumelhart]

I don't know much about using electrolysis as energy storage, the ones I've seen associated with wind have always been water-based storage (i.e. pump water uphill into a reservoir and run it through pipes to spin turbines or whatever to get the energy back).  I agree large capacity storage is desperately needed.  Instead of letting the windmills stand unmoving, store their energy somewhere until the grid needs it.  From what I've seen, there is a lot of work that needs to be done in this area.  We should have lots of energy storage throughout the grid so that the load fluctuations are evened out.  We need higher capacity and more efficient energy storage solutions to be developed, and we need to get even rudimentary ones deployed first before we open the floodgates and put up thousands of variable-load energy generation devices.  We also need a grid smart enough to send the energy where it's needed by the shortest path from the nearest energy
 storage system.

I think rushing headlong into alternative energy solutions without this system in place first is foolish.


Paul



________________________________
 From: Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
To: vision2020 at moscow.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] WTF?
 

Large capacity storage:  That is why electrolysis of water using the wind power is a possible solution.  It takes into account the variablilty of wind and solar power and provides a means of storage and regeneration when the power is needed.  This isn't my idea.  The idea was around from the late 1960s.

w. 


On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:

Ultimately, the problem with wind power is that it's not a constant load solution.  We need some kind of energy storage solution that is cost-effective, efficient, and high capacity.  Then we can use wind and solar to recharge the energy storage system and be buffered from the vagaries of wind speed and cloud cover.  Without that, we end up with a lot of our windmills not moving and our solar panels not receiving enough sunlight some of the time and falling short at others.  We also need a smarter electrical grid that can handle the fluctuations better and be smart enough to route energy to these energy storage systems when needed.  If the government wants to spend money on renewable energy, I would say spend it on electrical grid upgrades and large-capacity energy storage first.  Or nuclear, which actually *is* a base-load solution.
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>Paul
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>________________________________
> From: Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
>To: vision2020 at moscow.com 
>Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 8:04 AM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] WTF?
> 
>
>
>Thank you.
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>It is a complex subject. But does it make sense to pay for power not produced when water can be left through the dams free?
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>Those of us with $200 - $300 per month electricity bills fail to believe the cheapness argument.
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>w.
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>On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I think it's something like this:
>>Wind power is currently not price competitive with hydro-power or natural gas without state laws that require "green energy" and tax breaks. The cost of the machinery to electrolyze water, store the hydrogen, and turn it back into electricity would add to the already non-competitive cost of wind power.
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>>The Whistling Ridge project, just approved by Gregoire over the objections of conservationists, is on hold by the developers for economic reasons-- the price of electricity is so low they can't make it pencil out.
>> 
>>Ron Force
>>Moscow Idaho USA
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>> From: Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
>>To: vision2020 at moscow.com 
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2012 6:03 PM
>>Subject: [Vision2020] WTF?
>> 
>>
>>
>>Why not use the excess power to electrolyze water into hydrogen and oxygen, store these gases, then use them to generate electricity when the demand is greater?
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>>
>>http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03/07/wind-power-companies-paid-to-not-produce/?test=latestnews
>>
>>-- 
>>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
>>art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>>
>>=======================================================
>>List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>>
>
>
>-- 
>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
>art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>
>=======================================================
>List services made available by First Step Internet,
>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>              http://www.fsr.net
>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>=======================================================
>
>


-- 
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
art.deco.studios at gmail.com

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