[Vision2020] WTF?

[Gier, Nicholas]

Good Morning Visionaries:

In Denmark (which is already carbon with several islands carbon negative) excess wind power is sent to Norway to pump water back up in their hydropower projects, and, on a lesser scale, used to produce hydrogen gas.  Furthermore, Israel and Denmark are the only countries--using American technology--that are experimenting with storing excess wind power in the batteries of thousands of parked electric cars.

For one carbon negative Danish island see my column attached. Here is the epigraph for the columns: "We are a conservative farming community. We are only normal people, not some special people."--Joergen Tranberg, Samsoe Island farmer

Where there is a political will there are many ways to a carbon free future.  The U.S. is horrible at a common political will. If conservative Danish farmers can do it, why can't conservative Americans?

Nick

A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in. 

-Greek proverb



-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com on behalf of Art Deco
Sent: Thu 3/8/2012 10:36 AM
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] WTF?
 
Large capacity storage:  That is why electrolysis of water using the wind
power is a possible solution.  It takes into account the variablilty of
wind and solar power and provides a means of storage and regeneration when
the power is needed.  This isn't my idea.  The idea was around from the
late 1960s.

w.

On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Ultimately, the problem with wind power is that it's not a constant load
> solution.  We need some kind of energy storage solution that is
> cost-effective, efficient, and high capacity.  Then we can use wind and
> solar to recharge the energy storage system and be buffered from the
> vagaries of wind speed and cloud cover.  Without that, we end up with a lot
> of our windmills not moving and our solar panels not receiving enough
> sunlight some of the time and falling short at others.  We also need a
> smarter electrical grid that can handle the fluctuations better and be
> smart enough to route energy to these energy storage systems when needed.
> If the government wants to spend money on renewable energy, I would say
> spend it on electrical grid upgrades and large-capacity energy storage
> first.  Or nuclear, which actually *is* a base-load solution.
>
> Paul
>
>   ------------------------------
> *From:* Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 8, 2012 8:04 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] WTF?
>
> Thank you.
>
> It is a complex subject. But does it make sense to pay for power not
> produced when water can be left through the dams free?
>
> Those of us with $200 - $300 per month electricity bills fail to believe
> the cheapness argument.
>
> w.
>
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I think it's something like this:
> Wind power is currently not price competitive with hydro-power or natural
> gas without state laws that require "green energy" and tax breaks. The cost
> of the machinery to electrolyze water, store the hydrogen, and turn it back
> into electricity would add to the already non-competitive cost of wind
> power.
>
> The Whistling Ridge project, just approved by Gregoire over the objections
> of conservationists, is on hold by the developers for economic reasons--
> the price of electricity is so low they can't make it pencil out.
>
> Ron Force
> Moscow Idaho USA
>   ------------------------------
> *From:* Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 7, 2012 6:03 PM
> *Subject:* [Vision2020] WTF?
>
> Why not use the excess power to electrolyze water into hydrogen and
> oxygen, store these gases, then use them to generate electricity when the
> demand is greater?
>
>
>
> http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03/07/wind-power-companies-paid-to-not-produce/?test=latestnews
>
> --
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>               http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
>
>
>
> --
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>               http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
>


-- 
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
art.deco.studios at gmail.com



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