[Vision2020] Award Well-Deserved

Fri Apr 27 11:10:37 PDT 2012

Unfortunately, Ted, the only response to global warming you will get from our current band-aid-it government will be taxpayer subsidizes  for billionaires and millionairs to rebuild their coastal homes that will be flooded by rising ocean levels and to pharmaceutical companies for the development of sunblock 450 to be available to the public at the reasonable price of just $499 for a 30 day supply. 

Donovan Arnold

From: Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
To: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> 
Cc: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; Jeanne McHale <jeannemchale at hotmail.com>; Jim Prall <bermanprall at gmail.com>; Lois Blackburn <loisb at q.com>; Kathy Judson <ponysnpups at gmail.com>; Borg Hendrickson <chicory at wildblue.net>; Friends ofthe Clearwater <foc at friendsoftheclearwater.org>; Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>; Aaron Ament <aaronament at moscow.com>; Fritz Knorr <fritzknorr at gmail.com>; Brett Haverstick <bhaverstick at yahoo.com>; Marilyn Beckett <marilynbeckett at gmail.com>; CherylHalverson <basketmakeart at yahoo.com>; Linwood Laughy <lin at wildblue.net>; HelenYost <helen.yost at vandals.uidaho.edu>; Dr. Dinah Zeiger <dzeiger at uidaho.edu> 
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Award Well-Deserved

Amazing the changes that can happen in just a couple of years...

In August 2008 it was asserted on Vision2020 that I was "obsessing" on
global warming, in questions regarding this issue I asked Dan
Carscallen, in the thread "Dodging Important Questions."

Now in 2012 arrests have been occurring in Moscow in part to protest
behavior increasing the threat of anthropogenic climate change, i.e.
tar sands bound mega-loads.

To Carscallen's credit, he did answer my question in that 2008 thread,
regarding anthropogenic climate change, as quoted below.

It should be emphasized that Carscallen's response to mega-load
protestors regarding Mayor Cheney's approach to this subject is
somewhat understandable, if he still holds the view of anthropogenic
climate change that he expressed in 2008, as quoted below, a view that
does not hold the threat of anthropogenic climate change as a major
problem that human beings are responsible for.  This view on
anthropogenic climate change, or some similar view, is held by a large
percentage of the US public, no doubt also by a large percentage of
Moscow, Idaho residents.  He is expressing a very common viewpoint!

I guess I am not currently "obsessing" enough on global warming, given
I decided not to engage in civil disobedience regarding the tar sands
bound mega-loads coming through Moscow.

But I greatly respect those who did engage in civil disobedience in
this case;  and am inspired by these protests to feel that my alarm
regarding the potential of grave and long term global negative impacts
from anthropogenic climate change is not as fringe as I might
otherwise regard it...

http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2008-August/055497.html

[Vision2020] Dodging Important Questions
Dan Carscallen areaman at moscow.com wrote:
Thu Aug 21 05:23:02 PDT 2008

Do I think there's some climate change going on?  Maybe

If it is, do I think it's "anthropogenic"?  Less likely that, more
likely the sort of climate change that has been going on 'round the
planet for the last 4 or 5 billion years.

Do I think people should do their part to "prevent" climate change?  I
don't think we'll "prevent" anything.  Change will happen.
------------------------------------------
Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett

On 4/27/12, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:

> There was no comparison of truck drivers to Nazi guards. The point was
> that you can't use "it was just my job" as an excuse for partaking in
> a set of actions that are wrongful or harmful. Now you can debate
> about whether their job contributes to actions that are wrongful or
> harmful but to throw out the points made in what was a very well
> written, well argued letter because the author happens to mention
> something about Nazis is to be unfair, to say the least.
>
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 8:16 AM, Donovan Arnold
> <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> "He bemoans the lack of respect given for drivers and flaggers who were
>> "just earning a living." There were employees at Auschwitz who were just
>> doing their jobs too."
>>
>> I believe the writer lost her audience's sympathies when comparing truck
>> drivers and construction workers to Nazi concentration camp guards.
>> Otherwise, I think many would have agreed with the stated concerns.
>>
>> There is a bigger problem here than just oil. The problem is that
>> corporations are able to influence politicians with cash donations and
>> the
>> public with "more jobs" rhetoric to the extent in which they do nothing
>> about the planet being irreparably harmed and altered.  The ladies at
>> the Triangle Shirt Factory all had jobs, but it didn't do them any good
>> when
>> the environmental and safety standards were cut.
>>
>> Donovan Arnold
>>
>>
>> From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
>> To: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
>> Cc: Aaron Ament <aaronament at moscow.com>; Jim Prall
>> <bermanprall at gmail.com>;
>> Lois Blackburn <loisb at q.com>; Kathy Judson <ponysnpups at gmail.com>; Borg
>> Hendrickson <chicory at wildblue.net>; Friends ofthe Clearwater
>> <foc at friendsoftheclearwater.org>; Moscow Vision 2020
>> <vision2020 at moscow.com>; Jeanne McHale <jeannemchale at hotmail.com>; Fritz
>> Knorr <fritzknorr at gmail.com>; Brett Haverstick <bhaverstick at yahoo.com>;
>> Marilyn Beckett <marilynbeckett at gmail.com>; CherylHalverson
>> <basketmakeart at yahoo.com>; Linwood Laughy <lin at wildblue.net>; HelenYost
>> <helen.yost at vandals.uidaho.edu>; Dr. Dinah Zeiger <dzeiger at uidaho.edu>
>> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 6:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Award Well-Deserved
>>
>> Ouch! Nice letter!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 27, 2012, at 5:06 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>>
>> Courtesy of today's (April 27, 2012) Moscow-Pullman Daily News.
>>
>> -----------------------------------
>>
>> Award well-deserved
>>
>>
>> Dan Carscallen wants everyone to know that the Mayor's Earth Day award to
>> megaload protesters was not his idea (Letters to the Editor, April 20).
>>
>> Perhaps he is smarter than the climate scientists who decry mining the
>> Alberta Tar Sands as the final act of irreversible, anthropogenic climate
>> change. Perhaps he doesn't mind that indigenous people of northern
>> Alberta
>> are suffering from alarming rates of rare cancers and being robbed of
>> their
>> livelihood as fish and other wildlife are poisoned.
>>
>> He bemoans the lack of respect given for drivers and flaggers who were
>> "just
>> earning a living." There were employees at Auschwitz who were just doing
>> their jobs too. And he cites the need to have police "out in force"
>> because
>> "there was no telling what a protester might try." This statement implies
>> that police were needed to prevent protesters from committing some
>> unknown
>> but apparently heinous act Carscallen imagines us to be capable of.
>>
>> Police outnumbered protesters most nights because they were hired to
>> protect
>> the interests of ExxonMobil/Imperial Oil, not because there was any real
>> threat to the transports. It would make more sense for our police to
>> protect
>> the citizenry from this rapacious corporation, rather than the other way
>> around. Did we really need local, county and state police officers to
>> intimidate protesters as we exercised our constitutional rights?
>>
>> We chanted, we held signs, we played horns and drums, we sang songs and,
>> yes, some of us entered the crosswalk. All of these are perfectly legal
>> actions except, apparently, when our state officials (and some local
>> ones)
>> invite Big Oil to use our roads on their climate-killing, genocidal
>> mission.
>>
>> Perhaps they'll remember us when they plan their next route. To Mayor
>> Chaney, thank you. To Dan Carscallen, you're welcome.
>>
>> Jeanne McHale, Moscow
>>
>> -----------------------------------
>>
>> Earth Day Award for Megaload Protestors - April 16, 2012
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm64L_ozZwQ
>>
>> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>
>> Tom Hansen
>> Moscow, Idaho
>>
>> "If not us, who?
>> If not now, when?"
>>
>> - Unknown
>>
>>
>>
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