[Vision2020] First Step Internet: Is It 1984?
deb
debismith at moscow.com
Wed Nov 30 17:09:07 PST 2011
I do think if such remarks were published on V2020 about Bill London (or any other poster), a dfense would happen very quickly by postings from other "members". That so many negative postings about Christ Church (a few thousand? really?) reflects the concern of community members and negative opinion about that organization. First Step isn't the watchdog, and all past attempts to make this a moderated forum have failed, as will yours, ML#($ (oops, caps lock).
I'm with Tom---if you don't want the world to see inside your head, keep your mouth shut and fingers away from that "send" key. I may regret a few postings in hindsight, but for all that, I probably would have said it in public at noon in Friendship Square---it is a PUBLIC FORUM. I knew going in the posts were PUBLIC.
OK, now I'm done feeding the troll....
Debi Robinson-Smith
(notice: this is my real name and you can ask just about anyone to point me out on the street. Nothing to hide, nothing to see, move on, now...)
----- Original Message -----
From: ML394
To: Bill London ; Tom Hansen ; vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] First Step Internet: Is It 1984?
Okay, Bill, I will tone down the remarks. You make some good points here, but again - they are inaccurate.
Look up the legal liability of online forums that host slanderous posts against real people, using real names.
The fellow in Russia was obviously looking for information about Moscow, that's why he found the forum. The V2020 forum could have its main page visible to search engines without its posts visible to search engines.
If someone were searching for BILL LONDON MOSCOW, they would find information about you that you most likely would not have a problem with a stranger seeing.
But if someone were to search the internet for the slanderous, utterly slanderous attacks on Christ Church - there might be a few thousand posts visible online.
Someone could make up things about BILL LONDON and smear you all over this forum. It would be impossible for you to connect with each person who viewed the false information about you on the internet so that you could tell them that you were smeared. In other words, someone might want to offer a business opportunity to BILL LONDON in Moscow, but if they see that BILL LONDON has an internet reputation of being a sex offender, they would likely not contact BILL LONDON.
First Step Internet should not promote V2020 posts on search engines.
Or, and here is another idea that you might like:
Perhaps First Step Internet can place a disclaimer about the truth of posts as the header of every post on the forum. That way, a person reading the forum posts could better understand that V2020 is a free speech, local forum with members who may or may not be who they say they are.
What do you think of this idea, Bill?
On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 5:33 PM, Bill London <london at moscow.com> wrote:
To the anonymous ML394:
V2020 is a public forum. And sure it is likely that these words could be read by others who stumble upon V2020 or seek it for the brilliance of the debate it presents. I remember early in V2020’s life (about 15 years ago) we got a message from a man in Russia who had looked for something in Moscow, found V2020, and joined to learn more about America.
The point is that our messages can be read anywhere in the world, which is a sign of the power of the Internet, not our prose.
Careful study of legal precedence now indicates that what First Step is doing is providing the soapbox in Hyde Park. First Step is not moderating, changing or editing any messages, and therefore takes no responsibility for them.
Vision 2020 users are aware of the public nature of the forum, and recognize that First Step is not in charge of this forum. We need to offer First Step our gratitude, not sloppy and mean-spirited attacks.
BL
From: ML394
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 4:01 PM
To: Tom Hansen ; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] First Step Internet: Is It 1984?
When did privacy become a casualty in our society's pursuit of justice, free speech, better living and peace?
Why is this acceptable to you? Why would you start pointing fingers and throwing names out onto this forum? It is more "gutless" for First Step Internet to disregard the privacy of forum members than it is for me to post here anonymously.
Tom, you cannot be for freedom and against privacy. It has nothing to do with "having nothing to hide." It has to do with common decency. Privacy is a good thing as long as someone is not trying to harm someone else or break the law.
But my question is this:
Is First Step Internet breaking the law by promoting this forum on search engines? According to electronic data law, First Step Internet bears legal responsibility if it "knowingly aids in slander."
Look it up yourself.
On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
There is a not too old saying. It goes something like . . .
"If you don't want the world to know it, don't post it on the internet."
Please. Go ahead and google "Tom Hansen Moscow Idaho" or "Tom Hansen Vision2020" or anything else you are curious about.
Let your fingers do the stalking. I have ABSOLUTELY no problem with it. I will openly discuss, right here on the Viz, ANYTHING you uncover.
Or, you could do as most people here on the Viz have done before registering with the Viz . . . GET A LIFE!
In spite of your lack of honesty and transparency, I'm guessin' that you are either one of Dale Courtney's sandbox buddies or Dale Courtney himself. It's hard to tell. It's like y'all are of one mind. The only question I have is . . .
Who's using it today?
Seeya round town, Moscow.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
"If not us, who?
If not now, when?"
- Unknown
On Nov 30, 2011, at 3:37 PM, "ML394" <ml394 at hushmail.com> wrote:
> Janesta Carcich, right? First Step Internet feels that the whole world should know your private thoughts as expressed on the Vision 2020 forum. Check out JANESTA CARCICH on Google.
>
> I ask the forum: Do you want your Vision 2020 posts seen by everyone on the internet? Ex-spouses, high school classmates, employers and even stalkers can see what you've posted on this forum. Identity thieves could have a field day with this forum's posts.
>
> Check out TOM HANSEN IDAHO on Google.
>
> It's all right there, people, right there on Google. Your political views, your comments about other people, your personal information. It wouldn't be that hard to impersonate some members of this forum based on what First Step lets Google track. Why are we letting the First Step Internet corporation treat our personal thoughts and information like everyone out there should see it? It's like making a permanent recording of everything that was ever said in the town square. That's no fun. First Step Internet should respect the privacy of what is said here on this forum, or it should assume that it will have future legal problems.
>
> If someone were to reveal the social security numbers and home addresses of forum members right here onto Vision 2020, would anyone think that was a problem? I do, and if you think that your posts aren't tracked by Google, search your own name online with the word MOSCOW and see what comes up. It's careless to let anyone see what you've written here at Vision 2020.
>
> Tell First Step Internet to stop the privacy invasion and make all posts past, present and future private for members only to view. Wake up, it's 2011, and identity thieves can do a lot with just a little information these days. Protect free speech properly by making this free speech forum private for all members.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Janesta <janesta at gmail.com> wrote:
> What a pity. I was under the impression this was a private forum, in that
> my comments could not be found on the web.
>
> Janesta
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>
> > And your name is . . . ?
> >
> > Seeya round town, Moscow.
> >
> > Tom Hansen
> > Moscow, Idaho
> >
> > "If not us, who?
> > If not now, when?"
> >
> > - Unknown
> >
> > On Nov 30, 2011, at 2:16 PM, "ML394" <ml394 at hushmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > What I heard about First Step Internet is this:
> >
> > Due to the way the forum posts are being tracked by Google these days,
> > anyone can come on this forum and claim to be a person who they are not.
> > Anyone can say anything about someone else (even slander them) and those
> > posts will be tracked by Google and connected to the name of the slandered
> > person.
> >
> > In fact, most of the email addresses used to post to this forum could
> > never be tracked or traced to the name on the forum post. There is no easy
> > way to prove that any of the forum members are who they claim to be.
> >
> > So, if someone were to claim on this forum to be BILL MOORE, who loves to
> > steal money, commit crimes and wants others to share in his life of
> > self-debasement, there would be no way to prove that BILL MOORE did not
> > author the post. And yet the slander remains online. And we all know that
> > Bill Moore of First Step Internet is hardly a degenerate. He is one of the
> > most upstanding people in the area, a man who stands for freedom of speech
> > and the freedom to slander people, too.
> >
> > First Step Internet assumes no liability for the posts on this forum, but
> > according to the Electronic Frontier Foundation hosting a forum which
> > enables members to slander people by name and not just by their screen name
> > creates a legal liability for the hosting company. In this case, First
> > Step Internet is legally responsible for actually promoting the Vision 2020
> > forum on Google and other search engines. First Step Internet is legally
> > responsible for the slander its members write about others.
> >
> > The way I look at it, the longer First Step Internet lets Google track the
> > slanderous comments that have been made on the forum the greater the
> > liability. And First Step Internet would be out of business quickly.
> >
> > While I appreciate how important First Step Internet has been in the
> > development of government-funded, rural internet access and the development
> > of Vision 2020, I am certain that First Step Internet would be better off
> > (from a legal standpoint) making Vision 2020 a private forum that promotes
> > free speech but does not allow search engines to track the content of its
> > posts.
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > <http://www.fsr.net>http://www.fsr.net
> > <Vision2020 at moscow.com>mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com<Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > =======================================================
> >
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> >
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
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List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
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List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
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