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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I do think if such remarks were published on V2020
about Bill London (or any other poster), a dfense would happen very quickly by
postings from other "members". That so many negative postings about Christ
Church (a few thousand? really?) reflects the concern of community members and
negative opinion about that organization. First Step isn't the watchdog, and all
past attempts to make this a moderated forum have failed, as will yours, ML#($
(oops, caps lock).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm with Tom---if you don't want the world to see
inside your head, keep your mouth shut and fingers away from that "send" key. I
may regret a few postings in hindsight, but for all that, I probably would have
said it in public at noon in Friendship Square---it is a PUBLIC FORUM. I knew
going in the posts were PUBLIC. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>OK, now I'm done feeding the troll....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Debi Robinson-Smith</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(notice: this is my real name and you can ask just
about anyone to point me out on the street. Nothing to hide, nothing to see,
move on, now...)</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ml394@hushmail.com href="mailto:ml394@hushmail.com">ML394</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=london@moscow.com
href="mailto:london@moscow.com">Bill London</A> ; <A title=thansen@moscow.com
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">Tom Hansen</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 30, 2011 6:44
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] First Step
Internet: Is It 1984?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Okay, Bill, I
will tone down the remarks. You make some good points here, but again -
they are inaccurate.<BR><BR>Look up the legal liability of online forums that
host slanderous posts against real people, using real names.<BR><BR>The fellow
in Russia was obviously looking for information about Moscow, that's why he
found the forum. The V2020 forum could have its main page visible to
search engines without its posts visible to search engines.<BR><BR>If someone
were searching for BILL LONDON MOSCOW, they would find information about you
that you most likely would not have a problem with a stranger
seeing.<BR><BR>But if someone were to search the internet for the slanderous,
utterly slanderous attacks on Christ Church - there might be a few thousand
posts visible online.<BR><BR>Someone could make up things about BILL LONDON
and smear you all over this forum. It would be impossible for you to
connect with each person who viewed the false information about you on the
internet so that you could tell them that you were smeared. In other
words, someone might want to offer a business opportunity to BILL LONDON in
Moscow, but if they see that BILL LONDON has an internet reputation of being a
sex offender, they would likely not contact BILL LONDON.<BR><BR>First Step
Internet should not promote V2020 posts on search engines.<BR><BR>Or, and here
is another idea that you might like:<BR>Perhaps First Step Internet can place
a disclaimer about the truth of posts as the header of every post on the
forum. That way, a person reading the forum posts could better
understand that V2020 is a free speech, local forum with members who may or
may not be who they say they are.<BR><BR>What do you think of this idea,
Bill?<BR><BR>On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 5:33 PM, Bill London
<london@moscow.com> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">To
the anonymous ML394:<BR><BR>V2020 is a public forum. And sure it is likely
that these words could be read by others who stumble upon V2020 or seek it
for the brilliance of the debate it presents. I remember early in V2020’s
life (about 15 years ago) we got a message from a man in Russia who had
looked for something in Moscow, found V2020, and joined to learn more about
America.<BR><BR>The point is that our messages can be read anywhere in the
world, which is a sign of the power of the Internet, not our
prose.<BR><BR>Careful study of legal precedence now indicates that what
First Step is doing is providing the soapbox in Hyde Park. First Step is not
moderating, changing or editing any messages, and therefore takes no
responsibility for them.<BR><BR>Vision 2020 users are aware of the public
nature of the forum, and recognize that First Step is not in charge of this
forum. We need to offer First Step our gratitude, not sloppy and
mean-spirited attacks.<BR><BR>BL<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>From: ML394
<BR>Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 4:01 PM<BR>To: Tom Hansen ;
vision2020@moscow.com <BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] First Step Internet: Is
It 1984?<BR><BR>When did privacy become a casualty in our society's pursuit
of justice, free speech, better living and peace?<BR><BR>Why is this
acceptable to you? Why would you start pointing fingers and throwing names
out onto this forum? It is more "gutless" for First Step Internet to
disregard the privacy of forum members than it is for me to post here
anonymously.<BR><BR>Tom, you cannot be for freedom and against privacy. It
has nothing to do with "having nothing to hide." It has to do with common
decency. Privacy is a good thing as long as someone is not trying to harm
someone else or break the law.<BR><BR>But my question is this:<BR><BR>Is
First Step Internet breaking the law by promoting this forum on search
engines? According to electronic data law, First Step Internet bears legal
responsibility if it "knowingly aids in slander."<BR><BR>Look it up
yourself.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Tom
Hansen <thansen@moscow.com> wrote: <BR>There is a not too old saying.
It goes something like . . .<BR><BR>"If you don't want the world to know it,
don't post it on the internet."<BR><BR>Please. Go ahead and google "Tom
Hansen Moscow Idaho" or "Tom Hansen Vision2020" or anything else you are
curious about.<BR><BR>Let your fingers do the stalking. I have ABSOLUTELY no
problem with it. I will openly discuss, right here on the Viz, ANYTHING you
uncover.<BR><BR>Or, you could do as most people here on the Viz have done
before registering with the Viz . . . GET A LIFE!<BR><BR>In spite of your
lack of honesty and transparency, I'm guessin' that you are either one of
Dale Courtney's sandbox buddies or Dale Courtney himself. It's hard to tell.
It's like y'all are of one mind. The only question I have is . .
.<BR><BR>Who's using it today?<BR><BR>Seeya round town, Moscow.<BR><BR>Tom
Hansen<BR>Moscow, Idaho<BR><BR>"If not us, who?<BR>If not now,
when?"<BR><BR>- Unknown<BR><BR>On Nov 30, 2011, at 3:37 PM, "ML394"
<ml394@hushmail.com> wrote:<BR><BR>> Janesta Carcich, right? First
Step Internet feels that the whole world should know your private thoughts
as expressed on the Vision 2020 forum. Check out JANESTA CARCICH on Google.
<BR>> <BR>> I ask the forum: Do you want your Vision 2020 posts seen
by everyone on the internet? Ex-spouses, high school classmates, employers
and even stalkers can see what you've posted on this forum. Identity thieves
could have a field day with this forum's posts.<BR>> <BR>> Check out
TOM HANSEN IDAHO on Google.<BR>> <BR>> It's all right there, people,
right there on Google. Your political views, your comments about other
people, your personal information. It wouldn't be that hard to impersonate
some members of this forum based on what First Step lets Google track. Why
are we letting the First Step Internet corporation treat our personal
thoughts and information like everyone out there should see it? It's like
making a permanent recording of everything that was ever said in the town
square. That's no fun. First Step Internet should respect the privacy of
what is said here on this forum, or it should assume that it will have
future legal problems. <BR>> <BR>> If someone were to reveal the
social security numbers and home addresses of forum members right here onto
Vision 2020, would anyone think that was a problem? I do, and if you think
that your posts aren't tracked by Google, search your own name online with
the word MOSCOW and see what comes up. It's careless to let anyone see what
you've written here at Vision 2020.<BR>> <BR>> Tell First Step
Internet to stop the privacy invasion and make all posts past, present and
future private for members only to view. Wake up, it's 2011, and identity
thieves can do a lot with just a little information these days. Protect free
speech properly by making this free speech forum private for all
members.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2011
at 4:02 PM, Janesta <janesta@gmail.com> wrote:<BR>> What a pity. I
was under the impression this was a private forum, in that<BR>> my
comments could not be found on the web.<BR>> <BR>> Janesta<BR>>
<BR>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Tom Hansen
<thansen@moscow.com> wrote:<BR>> <BR>> > And your name is . .
. ?<BR>> ><BR>> > Seeya round town, Moscow.<BR>> ><BR>>
> Tom Hansen<BR>> > Moscow, Idaho<BR>> ><BR>> > "If not
us, who?<BR>> > If not now, when?"<BR>> ><BR>> > -
Unknown<BR>> ><BR>> > On Nov 30, 2011, at 2:16 PM, "ML394"
<ml394@hushmail.com> wrote:<BR>> ><BR>> > What I heard
about First Step Internet is this:<BR>> ><BR>> > Due to the way
the forum posts are being tracked by Google these days,<BR>> > anyone
can come on this forum and claim to be a person who they are not.<BR>>
> Anyone can say anything about someone else (even slander them) and
those<BR>> > posts will be tracked by Google and connected to the name
of the slandered<BR>> > person.<BR>> ><BR>> > In fact,
most of the email addresses used to post to this forum could<BR>> >
never be tracked or traced to the name on the forum post. There is no
easy<BR>> > way to prove that any of the forum members are who they
claim to be.<BR>> ><BR>> > So, if someone were to claim on this
forum to be BILL MOORE, who loves to<BR>> > steal money, commit crimes
and wants others to share in his life of<BR>> > self-debasement, there
would be no way to prove that BILL MOORE did not<BR>> > author the
post. And yet the slander remains online. And we all know that<BR>> >
Bill Moore of First Step Internet is hardly a degenerate. He is one of
the<BR>> > most upstanding people in the area, a man who stands for
freedom of speech<BR>> > and the freedom to slander people,
too.<BR>> ><BR>> > First Step Internet assumes no liability for
the posts on this forum, but<BR>> > according to the Electronic
Frontier Foundation hosting a forum which<BR>> > enables members to
slander people by name and not just by their screen name<BR>> >
creates a legal liability for the hosting company. In this case,
First<BR>> > Step Internet is legally responsible for actually
promoting the Vision 2020<BR>> > forum on Google and other search
engines. First Step Internet is legally<BR>> > responsible for the
slander its members write about others.<BR>> ><BR>> > The way I
look at it, the longer First Step Internet lets Google track the<BR>>
> slanderous comments that have been made on the forum the greater
the<BR>> > liability. And First Step Internet would be out of business
quickly.<BR>> ><BR>> > While I appreciate how important First
Step Internet has been in the<BR>> > development of government-funded,
rural internet access and the development<BR>> > of Vision 2020, I am
certain that First Step Internet would be better off<BR>> > (from a
legal standpoint) making Vision 2020 a private forum that promotes<BR>>
> free speech but does not allow search engines to track the content of
its<BR>> > posts.<BR>> ><BR>> >
=======================================================<BR>> > List
services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> > serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> > <<A
href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A>><A
href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A><BR>> >
<Vision2020@moscow.com>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<Vision2020@moscow.com><BR>>
> =======================================================<BR>>
><BR>> ><BR>> >
=======================================================<BR>> > List
services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> > serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> > <A
href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A><BR>> >
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >
=======================================================<BR>> ><BR>>
=======================================================<BR>> List
services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> <A
href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A><BR>>
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>>
=======================================================<BR><BR><BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>=======================================================<BR>List
services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>serving the communities
of the Palouse since 1994.<BR><A
href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A><BR>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>=======================================================</BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>=======================================================<BR> List
services made available by First Step Internet,<BR> serving the
communities of the Palouse since
1994.<BR>
http://www.fsr.net<BR>
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>=======================================================</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>