[Vision2020] First Step Internet: Is It 1984?
ML394
ml394 at hushmail.com
Wed Nov 30 16:44:51 PST 2011
Okay, Bill, I will tone down the remarks. You make some good points
here, but again - they are inaccurate.
Look up the legal liability of online forums that host slanderous
posts against real people, using real names.
The fellow in Russia was obviously looking for information about
Moscow, that's why he found the forum. The V2020 forum could have its
main page visible to search engines without its posts visible to
search engines.
If someone were searching for BILL LONDON MOSCOW, they would find
information about you that you most likely would not have a problem
with a stranger seeing.
But if someone were to search the internet for the slanderous, utterly
slanderous attacks on Christ Church - there might be a few thousand
posts visible online.
Someone could make up things about BILL LONDON and smear you all over
this forum. It would be impossible for you to connect with each
person who viewed the false information about you on the internet so
that you could tell them that you were smeared. In other words,
someone might want to offer a business opportunity to BILL LONDON in
Moscow, but if they see that BILL LONDON has an internet reputation of
being a sex offender, they would likely not contact BILL LONDON.
First Step Internet should not promote V2020 posts on search engines.
Or, and here is another idea that you might like:
Perhaps First Step Internet can place a disclaimer about the truth of
posts as the header of every post on the forum. That way, a person
reading the forum posts could better understand that V2020 is a free
speech, local forum with members who may or may not be who they say
they are.
What do you think of this idea, Bill?
On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 5:33 PM, Bill London wrote:To the
anonymous ML394:
V2020 is a public forum. And sure it is likely that these words could
be read by others who stumble upon V2020 or seek it for the brilliance
of the debate it presents. I remember early in V2020’s life (about
15 years ago) we got a message from a man in Russia who had looked for
something in Moscow, found V2020, and joined to learn more about
America.
The point is that our messages can be read anywhere in the world,
which is a sign of the power of the Internet, not our prose.
Careful study of legal precedence now indicates that what First Step
is doing is providing the soapbox in Hyde Park. First Step is not
moderating, changing or editing any messages, and therefore takes no
responsibility for them.
Vision 2020 users are aware of the public nature of the forum, and
recognize that First Step is not in charge of this forum. We need to
offer First Step our gratitude, not sloppy and mean-spirited attacks.
BL
From: ML394
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 4:01 PM
To: Tom Hansen ; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] First Step Internet: Is It 1984?
When did privacy become a casualty in our society's pursuit of
justice, free speech, better living and peace?
Why is this acceptable to you? Why would you start pointing fingers
and throwing names out onto this forum? It is more "gutless" for
First Step Internet to disregard the privacy of forum members than it
is for me to post here anonymously.
Tom, you cannot be for freedom and against privacy. It has nothing to
do with "having nothing to hide." It has to do with common decency.
Privacy is a good thing as long as someone is not trying to harm
someone else or break the law.
But my question is this:
Is First Step Internet breaking the law by promoting this forum on
search engines? According to electronic data law, First Step Internet
bears legal responsibility if it "knowingly aids in slander."
Look it up yourself.
On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:
There is a not too old saying. It goes something like . . .
"If you don't want the world to know it, don't post it on the
internet."
Please. Go ahead and google "Tom Hansen Moscow Idaho" or "Tom Hansen
Vision2020" or anything else you are curious about.
Let your fingers do the stalking. I have ABSOLUTELY no problem with
it. I will openly discuss, right here on the Viz, ANYTHING you
uncover.
Or, you could do as most people here on the Viz have done before
registering with the Viz . . . GET A LIFE!
In spite of your lack of honesty and transparency, I'm guessin' that
you are either one of Dale Courtney's sandbox buddies or Dale Courtney
himself. It's hard to tell. It's like y'all are of one mind. The only
question I have is . . .
Who's using it today?
Seeya round town, Moscow.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
"If not us, who?
If not now, when?"
- Unknown
On Nov 30, 2011, at 3:37 PM, "ML394" wrote:
> Janesta Carcich, right? First Step Internet feels that the whole
world should know your private thoughts as expressed on the Vision
2020 forum. Check out JANESTA CARCICH on Google.
>
> I ask the forum: Do you want your Vision 2020 posts seen by
everyone on the internet? Ex-spouses, high school classmates,
employers and even stalkers can see what you've posted on this forum.
Identity thieves could have a field day with this forum's posts.
>
> Check out TOM HANSEN IDAHO on Google.
>
> It's all right there, people, right there on Google. Your
political views, your comments about other people, your personal
information. It wouldn't be that hard to impersonate some members of
this forum based on what First Step lets Google track. Why are we
letting the First Step Internet corporation treat our personal
thoughts and information like everyone out there should see it? It's
like making a permanent recording of everything that was ever said in
the town square. That's no fun. First Step Internet should respect the
privacy of what is said here on this forum, or it should assume that
it will have future legal problems.
>
> If someone were to reveal the social security numbers and home
addresses of forum members right here onto Vision 2020, would anyone
think that was a problem? I do, and if you think that your posts
aren't tracked by Google, search your own name online with the word
MOSCOW and see what comes up. It's careless to let anyone see what
you've written here at Vision 2020.
>
> Tell First Step Internet to stop the privacy invasion and make all
posts past, present and future private for members only to view. Wake
up, it's 2011, and identity thieves can do a lot with just a little
information these days. Protect free speech properly by making this
free speech forum private for all members.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Janesta wrote:
> What a pity. I was under the impression this was a private forum,
in that
> my comments could not be found on the web.
>
> Janesta
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:
>
> > And your name is . . . ?
> >
> > Seeya round town, Moscow.
> >
> > Tom Hansen
> > Moscow, Idaho
> >
> > "If not us, who?
> > If not now, when?"
> >
> > - Unknown
> >
> > On Nov 30, 2011, at 2:16 PM, "ML394" wrote:
> >
> > What I heard about First Step Internet is this:
> >
> > Due to the way the forum posts are being tracked by Google these
days,
> > anyone can come on this forum and claim to be a person who they
are not.
> > Anyone can say anything about someone else (even slander them)
and those
> > posts will be tracked by Google and connected to the name of the
slandered
> > person.
> >
> > In fact, most of the email addresses used to post to this forum
could
> > never be tracked or traced to the name on the forum post. There
is no easy
> > way to prove that any of the forum members are who they claim to
be.
> >
> > So, if someone were to claim on this forum to be BILL MOORE, who
loves to
> > steal money, commit crimes and wants others to share in his life
of
> > self-debasement, there would be no way to prove that BILL MOORE
did not
> > author the post. And yet the slander remains online. And we all
know that
> > Bill Moore of First Step Internet is hardly a degenerate. He is
one of the
> > most upstanding people in the area, a man who stands for freedom
of speech
> > and the freedom to slander people, too.
> >
> > First Step Internet assumes no liability for the posts on this
forum, but
> > according to the Electronic Frontier Foundation hosting a forum
which
> > enables members to slander people by name and not just by their
screen name
> > creates a legal liability for the hosting company. In this case,
First
> > Step Internet is legally responsible for actually promoting the
Vision 2020
> > forum on Google and other search engines. First Step Internet is
legally
> > responsible for the slander its members write about others.
> >
> > The way I look at it, the longer First Step Internet lets Google
track the
> > slanderous comments that have been made on the forum the greater
the
> > liability. And First Step Internet would be out of business
quickly.
> >
> > While I appreciate how important First Step Internet has been in
the
> > development of government-funded, rural internet access and the
development
> > of Vision 2020, I am certain that First Step Internet would be
better off
> > (from a legal standpoint) making Vision 2020 a private forum
that promotes
> > free speech but does not allow search engines to track the
content of its
> > posts.
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> >
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> >
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
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