[Vision2020] Bill Moore - First Step Internet
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Wed Nov 30 17:51:57 PST 2011
I'm not competent to judge whether or not this constitutes slander, but
I will say that certain people get beat up on this list far too often
for my tastes. A warning that slander is a possibility is a good
warning for us to have on this list, in my opinion. Each one of us,
myself included, could treat others with a little more respect even if
they disagree with us politically or rub us the wrong way or represent
to us all that is evil in the world.
I don't, however, think it's First Step's responsibility to police us.
We are all posting messages that we know are accessible world-wide, it's
our responsibility to make sure that we follow the applicable laws when
doing so.
Paul
On 11/30/2011 04:35 PM, ML394 wrote:
> Here's a good one:
> http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2011-May/076264.html
>
> It's loaded with gossip, nothing much substantiated here.
>
> Gossip when done face to face is one thing, but done on the internet
> and leaving a permanent mark against a person's reputation is internet
> slander.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Paul Rumelhart
> <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Can you point me to an example of slander being sent to the Viz?
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ML394 <ml394 at hushmail.com>
> To: Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com>; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 4:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bill Moore - First Step Internet
>
>
> Darrell:
>
> This is a very good, thoughtful response, but it is not accurate:
> Most online bulletin boards, Google groups and online forums do
> not promote posts which slander real people.
>
> Here's the distinction: If someone on this forum says, "ML394 is a
> criminal," then that's not slander. But if someone says, "BILL
> MOORE is a thief," that is actually slander. And the hosting
> company which promotes that slander become liable in a court of
> law for the content of its posts.
>
> If a hosting company makes its forum posts private, however, then
> it is not legally responsible for slanderous content.
>
> Again, look it up.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Darrell Keim
> <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've been familiar with 21st century privacy (or, more
> specifically the
> >lack thereof) for some time, ML394. My snarky response was because
> I find
> >it quite ridiculous that anyone would be upset that remarks made on a
> >public board might be read by-gasp!-the public.
> >
> >UI see no need for 1st Step to change how V2020 works. Anyone making a
> >judgement solely off what is written here would be extremely foolish.
> >
> >I don't think 1st Step has anything to fear RE slander. There are
> untold
> >public bulletin boards, etc. where nasty comments are made on a daily
> >basis. If there was money to be made sueing them, I'm sure lawyers
> would
> >be doing so. Capitalism is highly efficient in that regard!
> >
> >Anyone who wants to look up what I have written on a public forum
> is free
> >to do so. That is why I attach my name to my musings.
> >
> >Glad to see you remember my name from the Chamber. Your memory is
> >excellent, as I left them some time ago. In fact they are looking for
> >another director, again, even as you read this.
> >
> >On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 3:48 PM, ML394 <ml394 at hushmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Darrell:
> >>
> >> I'm glad that you're getting educated about 21st century
> privacy. And I
> >> meant it when I said that I heard First Step Internet is going
> out of
> >> business. A lawsuit for slander could put any small company like
> First
> >> Step Internet out of business.
> >>
> >> Also, I didn't know that the Moscow Chamber of Commerce hires
> snarky staff
> >> members like yourself. But that's good for business, right? But
> when the
> >> Moscow chamber is promoting our town, a quick search through the
> 2020 posts
> >> can find out what you have to say, how sarcastic you are to
> others. "When
> >> did 7th graders take over the chamber of commerce?" will be the big
> >> question businesses ask when they decide on taking their
> business elsewhere.
> >>
> >> Good job, darrell.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Darrell Keim <
> >> keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Ya mean to say that people can read the things I writ and are
> written 'bout
> >> me on a public board!?!
> >>
> >> Well, shucks. I am mighty glad you took this courageous
> anonymous stand,
> >> ML394!
> >>
> >> *Shame* on First Step for providing us with a valuable free
> service, and
> >> not doing it how y'all think is *proper.*
> >>
> >>
> >> It is good of you to eddycate us po' innocent rubes about the
> danger of
> >> postings on the internut.
> >>
> >> And you were so clever by starting with your own fake post about
> First Step
> >> to make your point!
> >>
> >> I sure hope your occupation turns out as well as the others!
> >> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 3:11 PM, ML394 <ml394 at hushmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > My name is John Q. Public. My name is the name of anyone who
> gets talked
> >> > about on this forum and has their reputation smeared on the search
> >> > engines. My name is your name, Tom. My name is OCCUPY VISION
> 2020, taking
> >> > a stand against First Step Internet for promoting slanderous
> comments on
> >> > the internet and taking no responsibility for the harm that
> does to real
> >> > people.
> >> >
> >> > The truth is that corporations like First Step Internet need
> to be held
> >> > accountable for their actions and the use of its online
> technology to
> >> allow
> >> > anonymous smears of real people.
> >> >
> >> > The Vision 2020 policy of having all posts tracked by search
> engines
> >> needs
> >> > to be changed. First Step Internet can make sure that no
> search engines
> >> > track the forum posts. Why do people on the internet need to
> have access
> >> > to the local posts on the forum? That's not freedom, it is
> slander with
> >> > technology.
> >> >
> >> > Change the policy. Freedom of speech within the forum is fine,
> but having
> >> > the freedom to slander others across the internet should not
> be allowed
> >> by
> >> > First Step Internet. All First Step has to do is simply make
> the forum's
> >> > posts untrackable by search engines. Nothing else on the forum
> would
> >> > change.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Tom Hansen <
> >> thansen at moscow.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > And your name is . . . ?
> >> >
> >> > Seeya round town, Moscow.
> >> >
> >> > Tom Hansen
> >> > Moscow, Idaho
> >> >
> >> > "If not us, who?
> >> > If not now, when?"
> >> >
> >> > - Unknown
> >> >
> >> > On Nov 30, 2011, at 2:16 PM, "ML394" <ml394 at hushmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > What I heard about First Step Internet is this:
> >> > >
> >> > > Due to the way the forum posts are being tracked by Google
> these days,
> >> > anyone can come on this forum and claim to be a person who
> they are not.
> >> > Anyone can say anything about someone else (even slander them)
> and those
> >> > posts will be tracked by Google and connected to the name of the
> >> slandered
> >> > person.
> >> > >
> >> > > In fact, most of the email addresses used to post to this
> forum could
> >> > never be tracked or traced to the name on the forum post.
> There is no
> >> easy
> >> > way to prove that any of the forum members are who they claim
> to be.
> >> > >
> >> > > So, if someone were to claim on this forum to be BILL MOORE,
> who loves
> >> > to steal money, commit crimes and wants others to share in his
> life of
> >> > self-debasement, there would be no way to prove that BILL
> MOORE did not
> >> > author the post. And yet the slander remains online. And we
> all know that
> >> > Bill Moore of First Step Internet is hardly a degenerate. He
> is one of
> >> the
> >> > most upstanding people in the area, a man who stands for
> freedom of
> >> speech
> >> > and the freedom to slander people, too.
> >> > >
> >> > > First Step Internet assumes no liability for the posts on
> this forum,
> >> > but according to the Electronic Frontier Foundation hosting a
> forum which
> >> > enables members to slander people by name and not just by
> their screen
> >> name
> >> > creates a legal liability for the hosting company. In this
> case, First
> >> Step
> >> > Internet is legally responsible for actually promoting the
> Vision 2020
> >> > forum on Google and other search engines. First Step Internet
> is legally
> >> > responsible for the slander its members write about others.
> >> > >
> >> > > The way I look at it, the longer First Step Internet lets
> Google track
> >> > the slanderous comments that have been made on the forum the
> greater the
> >> > liability. And First Step Internet would be out of business
> quickly.
> >> > >
> >> > > While I appreciate how important First Step Internet has
> been in the
> >> > development of government-funded, rural internet access and the
> >> development
> >> > of Vision 2020, I am certain that First Step Internet would be
> better off
> >> > (from a legal standpoint) making Vision 2020 a private forum that
> >> promotes
> >> > free speech but does not allow search engines to track the
> content of its
> >> > posts.
> >> > > =======================================================
> >> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> > > http://www.fsr.net
> >> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> > > =======================================================
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > =======================================================
> >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> > http://www.fsr.net
> >> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> > =======================================================
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
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