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I'm not competent to judge whether or not this constitutes slander,
but I will say that certain people get beat up on this list far too
often for my tastes. A warning that slander is a possibility is a
good warning for us to have on this list, in my opinion. Each one
of us, myself included, could treat others with a little more
respect even if they disagree with us politically or rub us the
wrong way or represent to us all that is evil in the world.<br>
<br>
I don't, however, think it's First Step's responsibility to police
us. We are all posting messages that we know are accessible
world-wide, it's our responsibility to make sure that we follow the
applicable laws when doing so.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 11/30/2011 04:35 PM, ML394 wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:20111201003528.8E517A6E40@smtp.hushmail.com"
type="cite"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13px;">Here's
a good one:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2011-May/076264.html">http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2011-May/076264.html</a><br>
<br>
It's loaded with gossip, nothing much substantiated here. <br>
<br>
Gossip when done face to face is one thing, but done on the
internet and leaving a permanent mark against a person's
reputation is internet slander.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Paul Rumelhart
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"><godshatter@yahoo.com></a> wrote:
<blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
margin-left: 10px; padding-left: 10px;">Can you point me to an
example of slander being sent to the Viz?<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
From: ML394 <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ml394@hushmail.com"><ml394@hushmail.com></a><br>
To: Darrell Keim <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:keim153@gmail.com"><keim153@gmail.com></a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a> <br>
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 4:13 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bill Moore - First Step Internet<br>
<br>
<br>
Darrell:<br>
<br>
This is a very good, thoughtful response, but it is not
accurate: Most online bulletin boards, Google groups and
online forums do not promote posts which slander real people.
<br>
<br>
Here's the distinction: If someone on this forum says, "ML394
is a criminal," then that's not slander. But if someone says,
"BILL MOORE is a thief," that is actually slander. And the
hosting company which promotes that slander become liable in a
court of law for the content of its posts.<br>
<br>
If a hosting company makes its forum posts private, however,
then it is not legally responsible for slanderous content.<br>
<br>
Again, look it up.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Darrell Keim
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:keim153@gmail.com"><keim153@gmail.com></a> wrote:<br>
I've been familiar with 21st century privacy (or, more
specifically the<br>
>lack thereof) for some time, ML394. My snarky response was
because I find<br>
>it quite ridiculous that anyone would be upset that
remarks made on a<br>
>public board might be read by-gasp!-the public.<br>
><br>
>UI see no need for 1st Step to change how V2020 works.
Anyone making a<br>
>judgement solely off what is written here would be
extremely foolish.<br>
><br>
>I don't think 1st Step has anything to fear RE slander.
There are untold<br>
>public bulletin boards, etc. where nasty comments are made
on a daily<br>
>basis. If there was money to be made sueing them, I'm sure
lawyers would<br>
>be doing so. Capitalism is highly efficient in that
regard!<br>
><br>
>Anyone who wants to look up what I have written on a
public forum is free<br>
>to do so. That is why I attach my name to my musings.<br>
><br>
>Glad to see you remember my name from the Chamber. Your
memory is<br>
>excellent, as I left them some time ago. In fact they are
looking for<br>
>another director, again, even as you read this.<br>
><br>
>On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 3:48 PM, ML394
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ml394@hushmail.com"><ml394@hushmail.com></a> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Darrell:<br>
>><br>
>> I'm glad that you're getting educated about 21st
century privacy. And I<br>
>> meant it when I said that I heard First Step Internet
is going out of<br>
>> business. A lawsuit for slander could put any small
company like First<br>
>> Step Internet out of business.<br>
>><br>
>> Also, I didn't know that the Moscow Chamber of
Commerce hires snarky staff<br>
>> members like yourself. But that's good for business,
right? But when the<br>
>> Moscow chamber is promoting our town, a quick search
through the 2020 posts<br>
>> can find out what you have to say, how sarcastic you
are to others. "When<br>
>> did 7th graders take over the chamber of commerce?"
will be the big<br>
>> question businesses ask when they decide on taking
their business elsewhere.<br>
>><br>
>> Good job, darrell.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Darrell
Keim <<br>
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:keim153@gmail.com">keim153@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Ya mean to say that people can read the things I writ
and are written 'bout<br>
>> me on a public board!?!<br>
>><br>
>> Well, shucks. I am mighty glad you took this
courageous anonymous stand,<br>
>> ML394!<br>
>><br>
>> *Shame* on First Step for providing us with a
valuable free service, and<br>
>> not doing it how y'all think is *proper.*<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> It is good of you to eddycate us po' innocent rubes
about the danger of<br>
>> postings on the internut.<br>
>><br>
>> And you were so clever by starting with your own fake
post about First Step<br>
>> to make your point!<br>
>><br>
>> I sure hope your occupation turns out as well as the
others!<br>
>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 3:11 PM, ML394
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ml394@hushmail.com"><ml394@hushmail.com></a> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> > My name is John Q. Public. My name is the name
of anyone who gets talked<br>
>> > about on this forum and has their reputation
smeared on the search<br>
>> > engines. My name is your name, Tom. My name is
OCCUPY VISION 2020, taking<br>
>> > a stand against First Step Internet for
promoting slanderous comments on<br>
>> > the internet and taking no responsibility for
the harm that does to real<br>
>> > people.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > The truth is that corporations like First Step
Internet need to be held<br>
>> > accountable for their actions and the use of its
online technology to<br>
>> allow<br>
>> > anonymous smears of real people.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > The Vision 2020 policy of having all posts
tracked by search engines<br>
>> needs<br>
>> > to be changed. First Step Internet can make sure
that no search engines<br>
>> > track the forum posts. Why do people on the
internet need to have access<br>
>> > to the local posts on the forum? That's not
freedom, it is slander with<br>
>> > technology.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Change the policy. Freedom of speech within the
forum is fine, but having<br>
>> > the freedom to slander others across the
internet should not be allowed<br>
>> by<br>
>> > First Step Internet. All First Step has to do is
simply make the forum's<br>
>> > posts untrackable by search engines. Nothing
else on the forum would<br>
>> > change.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Tom
Hansen <<br>
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>><br>
>> > wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > And your name is . . . ?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Seeya round town, Moscow.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Tom Hansen<br>
>> > Moscow, Idaho<br>
>> ><br>
>> > "If not us, who?<br>
>> > If not now, when?"<br>
>> ><br>
>> > - Unknown<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On Nov 30, 2011, at 2:16 PM, "ML394"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ml394@hushmail.com"><ml394@hushmail.com></a> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > > What I heard about First Step Internet is
this:<br>
>> > ><br>
>> > > Due to the way the forum posts are being
tracked by Google these days,<br>
>> > anyone can come on this forum and claim to be a
person who they are not.<br>
>> > Anyone can say anything about someone else (even
slander them) and those<br>
>> > posts will be tracked by Google and connected to
the name of the<br>
>> slandered<br>
>> > person.<br>
>> > ><br>
>> > > In fact, most of the email addresses used
to post to this forum could<br>
>> > never be tracked or traced to the name on the
forum post. There is no<br>
>> easy<br>
>> > way to prove that any of the forum members are
who they claim to be.<br>
>> > ><br>
>> > > So, if someone were to claim on this forum
to be BILL MOORE, who loves<br>
>> > to steal money, commit crimes and wants others
to share in his life of<br>
>> > self-debasement, there would be no way to prove
that BILL MOORE did not<br>
>> > author the post. And yet the slander remains
online. And we all know that<br>
>> > Bill Moore of First Step Internet is hardly a
degenerate. He is one of<br>
>> the<br>
>> > most upstanding people in the area, a man who
stands for freedom of<br>
>> speech<br>
>> > and the freedom to slander people, too.<br>
>> > ><br>
>> > > First Step Internet assumes no liability
for the posts on this forum,<br>
>> > but according to the Electronic Frontier
Foundation hosting a forum which<br>
>> > enables members to slander people by name and
not just by their screen<br>
>> name<br>
>> > creates a legal liability for the hosting
company. In this case, First<br>
>> Step<br>
>> > Internet is legally responsible for actually
promoting the Vision 2020<br>
>> > forum on Google and other search engines. First
Step Internet is legally<br>
>> > responsible for the slander its members write
about others.<br>
>> > ><br>
>> > > The way I look at it, the longer First Step
Internet lets Google track<br>
>> > the slanderous comments that have been made on
the forum the greater the<br>
>> > liability. And First Step Internet would be out
of business quickly.<br>
>> > ><br>
>> > > While I appreciate how important First Step
Internet has been in the<br>
>> > development of government-funded, rural internet
access and the<br>
>> development<br>
>> > of Vision 2020, I am certain that First Step
Internet would be better off<br>
>> > (from a legal standpoint) making Vision 2020 a
private forum that<br>
>> promotes<br>
>> > free speech but does not allow search engines to
track the content of its<br>
>> > posts.<br>
>> > >
=======================================================<br>
>> > > List services made available by First Step
Internet,<br>
>> > > serving the communities of the Palouse
since 1994.<br>
>> > > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
>> > > <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
>> > >
=======================================================<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> >
=======================================================<br>
>> > List services made available by First Step
Internet,<br>
>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since
1994.<br>
>> > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
>> > <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
>> >
=======================================================<br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>><br>
=======================================================<br>
List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
=======================================================</blockquote>
</span>
</blockquote>
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