[Vision2020] Bill Moore - First Step Internet

ML394 ml394 at hushmail.com
Wed Nov 30 16:35:28 PST 2011

Here's a good one:

It's loaded with gossip, nothing much substantiated here.  

Gossip when done face to face is one thing, but done on the internet
and leaving a permanent mark against a person's reputation is internet
On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Paul Rumelhart  wrote:Can
you point me to an example of slander being sent to the Viz?

 From: ML394 
To: Darrell Keim ; vision2020 at moscow.com 
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bill Moore - First Step Internet

This is a very good, thoughtful response, but it is not accurate: Most
online bulletin boards, Google groups and online forums do not promote
posts which slander real people.  

Here's the distinction: If someone on this forum says, "ML394 is a
criminal," then that's not slander.  But if someone says, "BILL MOORE
is a thief," that is actually slander.  And the hosting company which
promotes that slander become liable in a court of law for the content
of its posts.

If a hosting company makes its forum posts private, however, then it
is not legally responsible for slanderous content.

Again, look it up.
On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Darrell Keim  wrote:
I've been familiar with 21st century privacy (or, more specifically
>lack thereof) for some time, ML394.  My snarky response was because I
>it quite ridiculous that anyone would be upset that remarks made on a
>public board might be read by-gasp!-the public.
>UI see no need for 1st Step to change how V2020 works.  Anyone making
>judgement solely off what is written here would be extremely foolish.
>I don't think 1st Step has anything to fear RE slander.  There are
>public bulletin boards, etc. where nasty comments are made on a daily
>basis.  If there was money to be made sueing them, I'm sure lawyers
>be doing so.  Capitalism is highly efficient in that regard!
>Anyone who wants to look up what I have written on a public forum is
>to do so.  That is why I attach my name to my musings.
>Glad to see you remember my name from the Chamber. Your memory is
>excellent, as I left them some time ago.  In fact they are looking
>another director, again, even as you read this.
>On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 3:48 PM, ML394  wrote:
>> Darrell:
>> I'm glad that you're getting educated about 21st century privacy. 
And I
>> meant it when I said that I heard First Step Internet is going out
>> business.  A lawsuit for slander could put any small company like
>> Step Internet out of business.
>> Also, I didn't know that the Moscow Chamber of Commerce hires
snarky staff
>> members like yourself.  But that's good for business, right?  But
when the
>> Moscow chamber is promoting our town, a quick search through the
2020 posts
>> can find out what you have to say, how sarcastic you are to others.
>> did 7th graders take over the chamber of commerce?" will be the big
>> question businesses ask when they decide on taking their business
>> Good job, darrell.
>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Darrell Keim <
>> keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ya mean to say that people can read the things I writ and are
written 'bout
>> me on a public board!?!
>> Well, shucks. I am mighty glad you took this courageous anonymous
>> ML394!
>> *Shame* on First Step for providing us with a valuable free
service, and
>> not doing it how y'all think is *proper.*
>> It is good of you to eddycate us po' innocent rubes about the
danger of
>> postings on the internut.
>> And you were so clever by starting with your own fake post about
First Step
>> to make your point!
>> I sure hope your occupation turns out as well as the others!
>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 3:11 PM, ML394  wrote:
>> > My name is John Q. Public. My name is the name of anyone who gets
>> > about on this forum and has their reputation smeared on the
>> > engines. My name is your name, Tom. My name is OCCUPY VISION
2020, taking
>> > a stand against First Step Internet for promoting slanderous
comments on
>> > the internet and taking no responsibility for the harm that does
to real
>> > people.
>> >
>> > The truth is that corporations like First Step Internet need to
be held
>> > accountable for their actions and the use of its online
technology to
>> allow
>> > anonymous smears of real people.
>> >
>> > The Vision 2020 policy of having all posts tracked by search
>> needs
>> > to be changed. First Step Internet can make sure that no search
>> > track the forum posts. Why do people on the internet need to have
>> > to the local posts on the forum? That's not freedom, it is
slander with
>> > technology.
>> >
>> > Change the policy. Freedom of speech within the forum is fine,
but having
>> > the freedom to slander others across the internet should not be
>> by
>> > First Step Internet. All First Step has to do is simply make the
>> > posts untrackable by search engines. Nothing else on the forum
>> > change.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Tom Hansen <
>> thansen at moscow.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > And your name is . . . ?
>> >
>> > Seeya round town, Moscow.
>> >
>> > Tom Hansen
>> > Moscow, Idaho
>> >
>> > "If not us, who?
>> > If not now, when?"
>> >
>> > - Unknown
>> >
>> > On Nov 30, 2011, at 2:16 PM, "ML394"  wrote:
>> >
>> > > What I heard about First Step Internet is this:
>> > >
>> > > Due to the way the forum posts are being tracked by Google
these days,
>> > anyone can come on this forum and claim to be a person who they
are not.
>> > Anyone can say anything about someone else (even slander them)
and those
>> > posts will be tracked by Google and connected to the name of the
>> slandered
>> > person.
>> > >
>> > > In fact, most of the email addresses used to post to this forum
>> > never be tracked or traced to the name on the forum post. There
is no
>> easy
>> > way to prove that any of the forum members are who they claim to
>> > >
>> > > So, if someone were to claim on this forum to be BILL MOORE,
who loves
>> > to steal money, commit crimes and wants others to share in his
life of
>> > self-debasement, there would be no way to prove that BILL MOORE
did not
>> > author the post. And yet the slander remains online. And we all
know that
>> > Bill Moore of First Step Internet is hardly a degenerate. He is
one of
>> the
>> > most upstanding people in the area, a man who stands for freedom
>> speech
>> > and the freedom to slander people, too.
>> > >
>> > > First Step Internet assumes no liability for the posts on this
>> > but according to the Electronic Frontier Foundation hosting a
forum which
>> > enables members to slander people by name and not just by their
>> name
>> > creates a legal liability for the hosting company. In this case,
>> Step
>> > Internet is legally responsible for actually promoting the Vision
>> > forum on Google and other search engines. First Step Internet is
>> > responsible for the slander its members write about others.
>> > >
>> > > The way I look at it, the longer First Step Internet lets
Google track
>> > the slanderous comments that have been made on the forum the
greater the
>> > liability. And First Step Internet would be out of business
>> > >
>> > > While I appreciate how important First Step Internet has been
in the
>> > development of government-funded, rural internet access and the
>> development
>> > of Vision 2020, I am certain that First Step Internet would be
better off
>> > (from a legal standpoint) making Vision 2020 a private forum that
>> promotes
>> > free speech but does not allow search engines to track the
content of its
>> > posts.
>> > > =======================================================
>> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> > > http://www.fsr.net
>> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > > =======================================================
>> >
>> >
>> > =======================================================
>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> > http://www.fsr.net
>> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > =======================================================
>> >
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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