[Vision2020] Bill Moore - First Step Internet

Art Deco deco at moscow.com
Wed Nov 30 20:26:49 PST 2011


Your link gives us the understanding of your motivation.  Nice try.

There will be more for you relish soon.

w.


From: ML394 
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 4:35 PM
To: Paul Rumelhart ; Darrell Keim ; vision2020 at moscow.com 
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bill Moore - First Step Internet


Here's a good one:
http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2011-May/076264.html

It's loaded with gossip, nothing much substantiated here.  

Gossip when done face to face is one thing, but done on the internet and leaving a permanent mark against a person's reputation is internet slander.



On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote: 
  Can you point me to an example of slander being sent to the Viz?

  Paul



  ________________________________
  From: ML394 <ml394 at hushmail.com>
  To: Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com>; vision2020 at moscow.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 4:13 PM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bill Moore - First Step Internet


  Darrell:

  This is a very good, thoughtful response, but it is not accurate: Most online bulletin boards, Google groups and online forums do not promote posts which slander real people.  

  Here's the distinction: If someone on this forum says, "ML394 is a criminal," then that's not slander.  But if someone says, "BILL MOORE is a thief," that is actually slander.  And the hosting company which promotes that slander become liable in a court of law for the content of its posts.

  If a hosting company makes its forum posts private, however, then it is not legally responsible for slanderous content.

  Again, look it up.

   

  On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
  I've been familiar with 21st century privacy (or, more specifically the
  >lack thereof) for some time, ML394. My snarky response was because I find
  >it quite ridiculous that anyone would be upset that remarks made on a
  >public board might be read by-gasp!-the public.
  >
  >UI see no need for 1st Step to change how V2020 works. Anyone making a
  >judgement solely off what is written here would be extremely foolish.
  >
  >I don't think 1st Step has anything to fear RE slander. There are untold
  >public bulletin boards, etc. where nasty comments are made on a daily
  >basis. If there was money to be made sueing them, I'm sure lawyers would
  >be doing so. Capitalism is highly efficient in that regard!
  >
  >Anyone who wants to look up what I have written on a public forum is free
  >to do so. That is why I attach my name to my musings.
  >
  >Glad to see you remember my name from the Chamber. Your memory is
  >excellent, as I left them some time ago. In fact they are looking for
  >another director, again, even as you read this.
  >
  >On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 3:48 PM, ML394 <ml394 at hushmail.com> wrote:
  >
  >> Darrell:
  >>
  >> I'm glad that you're getting educated about 21st century privacy. And I
  >> meant it when I said that I heard First Step Internet is going out of
  >> business. A lawsuit for slander could put any small company like First
  >> Step Internet out of business.
  >>
  >> Also, I didn't know that the Moscow Chamber of Commerce hires snarky staff
  >> members like yourself. But that's good for business, right? But when the
  >> Moscow chamber is promoting our town, a quick search through the 2020 posts
  >> can find out what you have to say, how sarcastic you are to others. "When
  >> did 7th graders take over the chamber of commerce?" will be the big
  >> question businesses ask when they decide on taking their business elsewhere.
  >>
  >> Good job, darrell.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Darrell Keim <
  >> keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
  >>
  >> Ya mean to say that people can read the things I writ and are written 'bout
  >> me on a public board!?!
  >>
  >> Well, shucks. I am mighty glad you took this courageous anonymous stand,
  >> ML394!
  >>
  >> *Shame* on First Step for providing us with a valuable free service, and
  >> not doing it how y'all think is *proper.*
  >>
  >>
  >> It is good of you to eddycate us po' innocent rubes about the danger of
  >> postings on the internut.
  >>
  >> And you were so clever by starting with your own fake post about First Step
  >> to make your point!
  >>
  >> I sure hope your occupation turns out as well as the others!
  >> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 3:11 PM, ML394 <ml394 at hushmail.com> wrote:
  >>
  >> > My name is John Q. Public. My name is the name of anyone who gets talked
  >> > about on this forum and has their reputation smeared on the search
  >> > engines. My name is your name, Tom. My name is OCCUPY VISION 2020, taking
  >> > a stand against First Step Internet for promoting slanderous comments on
  >> > the internet and taking no responsibility for the harm that does to real
  >> > people.
  >> >
  >> > The truth is that corporations like First Step Internet need to be held
  >> > accountable for their actions and the use of its online technology to
  >> allow
  >> > anonymous smears of real people.
  >> >
  >> > The Vision 2020 policy of having all posts tracked by search engines
  >> needs
  >> > to be changed. First Step Internet can make sure that no search engines
  >> > track the forum posts. Why do people on the internet need to have access
  >> > to the local posts on the forum? That's not freedom, it is slander with
  >> > technology.
  >> >
  >> > Change the policy. Freedom of speech within the forum is fine, but having
  >> > the freedom to slander others across the internet should not be allowed
  >> by
  >> > First Step Internet. All First Step has to do is simply make the forum's
  >> > posts untrackable by search engines. Nothing else on the forum would
  >> > change.
  >> >
  >> >
  >> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Tom Hansen <
  >> thansen at moscow.com>
  >> > wrote:
  >> >
  >> > And your name is . . . ?
  >> >
  >> > Seeya round town, Moscow.
  >> >
  >> > Tom Hansen
  >> > Moscow, Idaho
  >> >
  >> > "If not us, who?
  >> > If not now, when?"
  >> >
  >> > - Unknown
  >> >
  >> > On Nov 30, 2011, at 2:16 PM, "ML394" <ml394 at hushmail.com> wrote:
  >> >
  >> > > What I heard about First Step Internet is this:
  >> > >
  >> > > Due to the way the forum posts are being tracked by Google these days,
  >> > anyone can come on this forum and claim to be a person who they are not.
  >> > Anyone can say anything about someone else (even slander them) and those
  >> > posts will be tracked by Google and connected to the name of the
  >> slandered
  >> > person.
  >> > >
  >> > > In fact, most of the email addresses used to post to this forum could
  >> > never be tracked or traced to the name on the forum post. There is no
  >> easy
  >> > way to prove that any of the forum members are who they claim to be.
  >> > >
  >> > > So, if someone were to claim on this forum to be BILL MOORE, who loves
  >> > to steal money, commit crimes and wants others to share in his life of
  >> > self-debasement, there would be no way to prove that BILL MOORE did not
  >> > author the post. And yet the slander remains online. And we all know that
  >> > Bill Moore of First Step Internet is hardly a degenerate. He is one of
  >> the
  >> > most upstanding people in the area, a man who stands for freedom of
  >> speech
  >> > and the freedom to slander people, too.
  >> > >
  >> > > First Step Internet assumes no liability for the posts on this forum,
  >> > but according to the Electronic Frontier Foundation hosting a forum which
  >> > enables members to slander people by name and not just by their screen
  >> name
  >> > creates a legal liability for the hosting company. In this case, First
  >> Step
  >> > Internet is legally responsible for actually promoting the Vision 2020
  >> > forum on Google and other search engines. First Step Internet is legally
  >> > responsible for the slander its members write about others.
  >> > >
  >> > > The way I look at it, the longer First Step Internet lets Google track
  >> > the slanderous comments that have been made on the forum the greater the
  >> > liability. And First Step Internet would be out of business quickly.
  >> > >
  >> > > While I appreciate how important First Step Internet has been in the
  >> > development of government-funded, rural internet access and the
  >> development
  >> > of Vision 2020, I am certain that First Step Internet would be better off
  >> > (from a legal standpoint) making Vision 2020 a private forum that
  >> promotes
  >> > free speech but does not allow search engines to track the content of its
  >> > posts.
  >> > > =======================================================
  >> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
  >> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
  >> > > http://www.fsr.net
  >> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
  >> > > =======================================================
  >> >
  >> >
  >> > =======================================================
  >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
  >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
  >> > http://www.fsr.net
  >> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
  >> > =======================================================
  >> >
  >>
  >>
  =======================================================
  List services made available by First Step Internet,
  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
                http://www.fsr.net
            mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
  =======================================================


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=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
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