[Vision2020] A lesson from "Waters" How to Lie with Statistics

[Art Deco]

It is not clear if "Rob Waters" is actually your real name, but your posts resemble those of certain members of an infamous local cult whose methods of presentation use the tricks discussed in How to Lie with Statistics by Darrell Huff.

For example, your claim that moderately to very successful people pay 25% - 37% of their income in federal taxes.  Wrong!  See
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html  See Table 1.  You only exaggerated by doubling the percent.  25% - 37% is paid on the amount exceeding a certain net income amount (income after all tax breaks have been taken).  I leave it to you to read the actual figures presented and the accompanying discussion.

What you have also dishonestly omitted is that 2/3 of all for-profit U.S. corporations pay no federal income tax at all.  See
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/business/13tax.html

The rest of your so-called facts are similarly inaccurate and incomplete.

It didn't take long from your first appearance on Vision 2020 to show yourself as an arrogant liar.  Good luck in trying to engage anyone here in a meaningful discussion unless you give a believable source for your so-called facts.

People from all over the political continuum agree that tax laws need to be changed.  Lying does not help forward the discussion of this issue.  In your case it gives the impression that conservatives need to lie to attempt to persuade others that their position on tax policy is correct.  I don't think all conservatives lie, but those that do weaken the honest conservatives' positions and make all of us suspicious of their motives.

When I first read your posts, I thought:  "Here is some liberal trying to make conservatives look stupid and uninformed."  Perhaps that is the case, or your posts are attempt to distract some of us from other issues now simmering just below boil whose revelation might be found embarrassing by a number of people, or you really are stupid and uninformed.


Wayne A. Fox
1009 Karen Lane
PO Box 9421
Moscow, ID  83843

waf at moscow.com
208 882-7975

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Rob Waters 
  To: vision2020 at moscow.com 
  Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 9:03 PM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Latah County Election Summ ary and CandidateComparison


  Sandra, 

  Thank you for the long, thoughtful post. I'm trying to get some other work done tonight, but thought I should give you at least a brief reply. Given your quote below which makes your perspective fairly clear, even if I were Hemingway, I doubt I will make much headway.

  Moderately successful people to very successful people are already taxed between 36% and 65%. 
  Fed tax of 25-37%, 
  SS tax of 6+-13% Depending if you are self employed
  State tax of 5-12%
  Add disablility, unemployement taxes, etc and you get real quick to 65%
  (These are resonably accurate estimates)

  You may think this is not high enough, but most people will quit producing if 2 of every 3 dollars goes to the government. Millionaire taxes in several states have already shown this. You quickly get into diminishing returns and not only do you begin to loose taxes from the rich, but also the people they no longer hire. You can only wring so much blood out of the "Golden Goose" before you kill it. It may pain you to hear this, but most people don't work 10-15 hour days to run a successful business, so they can do their civic duty and give it to the government. People with money don't have to work. 

  The only people paying little or no tax are people under about 40K which is probably 90% of the population, and I bet you don't want to tax them at all.

  So that leaves BIG budget cuts...


  Rob


  On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl.fastmail.fm> wrote:



    Given the incredible debt that’s been amassed due to the war-mongering of the industrial-military complex, I remain quite interested what solutions anti-tax advocates recommend that don’t throw their fellow Americans under the bus.





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