[Vision2020] Racism Enshrined in Arizona Law
Wayne Price
bear at moscow.com
Sat Apr 24 12:10:15 PDT 2010
Paul,
I agree that this is an issue that there are no simple answers to.
When you said "what we are now doing which is holding illegal
immigration to be a status that should be demonized", shouldn't it be?
I am NOT talking about those in this country legally, but those in the
country illegally. Those folks that have jumped through the hoops
have paid their dues so to speak and should
be welcomed and should be held up as great examples. Those however
that have entered illegally, have in fact committed a federal crime
and should be prosecuted, deported and barred
from re-entry.
Now, one of the areas that does impact us locally is with the
certification that has to be submitted by employers to the Department
of Labor to bring in foreign workers.
The employer has to certify:
There are insufficient available, qualified, and willing U.S. workers
to fill the position being offered at the prevailing wage
Hiring a foreign worker will not adversely affect the wages and
working conditions of similarly employed U.S. workers
Just think about this when it involves the University and bringing in
employees from outside the US. The University is saying, "There are
insufficient available, qualified, and willing U.S. workers to fill
the position being offered at the prevailing wage". Well, what is that
based on? Notice there is NO mention of "best qualified", just
"qualified". For instance, a position becomes available at the
University. Several people including US citizens, put in for the
position and a foreign national is given there job. Now, when the
University certifies to the federal government that "There are
insufficient available, qualified, and willing U.S. workers to fill
the position being offered at the prevailing wage" is it true? And is
it even looked into or is the certification taken on face value and no
subsequent investigation as to the truth or falsehood of the statement
by the employer is made? And there is a pro-forma process where the
notification is "posted" for two weeks outside an obscure office door
where the other applicants are unlikely to ever see it and be able to
contest the hiring decision. And a better question would be who makes
the determination at the employer level that "There are insufficient
available, qualified, and willing U.S. workers to fill the position
being offered at the prevailing wage?" Some clerk? The University
President? Who is held responsible IF a determination is made that the
statement is false? What is the consequence? Currently, it doesn't
appear to be any at all, so why would the "system" ever change?
This is just an example of large gaps in the current immigration
system that should be plugged. It is also one of the reasons why laws
like the one Arizona are passed and why there is such a strong
backlash against illegal immigrants. When qualified US citizens are
passed over for US taxpayer funded jobs to bring in a foreign
national, there is bound to be a backlash. And the depressed economic
situation adds to that backlash and frustration.
On Apr 24, 2010, at 9:15 AM, Paul Rumelhart wrote:
>
> Perhaps we should convict the employers even if they didn't know
> that they hired an illegal alien. It might make them care about due
> diligence when hiring someone a little bit more. I imagine that
> most of these people aren't being paid at executive levels, they are
> probably being paid at much less than minimum wage. That alone
> should be a sign that they don't have a legal status. I don't think
> it's a case of employers being duped by devious immigrants, they are
> in this with their eyes wide open.
>
> Paul
>
> lfalen wrote:
>> This sounds good on the face of it. The problem is in how do you
>> known if they are an illegal alien? Will people have to produce
>> some sort of proof that they are a legal resident? These documents
>> can and are forged. I have no problem with convecting employers
>> if it can be proven that they knowingly hired illegals. This may be
>> hard to prove.
>> Roger
>> -----Original message-----
>> From: "Mike Deleve" coolerfixer at roadrunner.com
>> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 18:50:03 -0700
>> To: "Wayne Price" bear at moscow.com, "keely emerinemix" kjajmix1 at msn.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Racism Enshrined in Arizona Law
>>
>>
>>> It's incredibly easy. $100,000 mandatory fine with 1 year
>>> MANDATORY time in FEDERAL PRISON for anyone employing an illegal
>>> alien. Employers are taking advantage of the border jumpers, but
>>> the employment is why they come.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Wayne Price To: keely
>>> emerinemix Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com Sent: Friday, April 23,
>>> 2010 5:30 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Racism Enshrined in Arizona Law
>>>
>>>
>>> Keely,
>>>
>>>
>>> While I agree that this has opened a whole can of worms as far as
>>> profiling, DWM, etc, etc, What can or should be done about
>>> ILLEGAL immigrants?
>>>
>>>
>>> There is a process, for better or worse that allows folks that
>>> are not US citizens access to the US and to jobs in the US. From
>>> what I understand, the AZ law isn't going after
>>> those folks at all. It is focused on the illegal immigrants.
>>>
>>>
>>> Solutions?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 3:26 PM, keely emerinemix wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Arizona Governor Signs a Controversial Immigration Bill
>>> > > Gov. Jan Brewer of Arizona signed a bill that would
>>> require
>>> > the police to ask people about their immigration status if
>>> > officers have any reason to suspect that they are in the
>>> > country illegally. (NY Times, April 23, 2010)
>>>
>>>
>>> This is shameful.
>>>
>>> "Any reason to suspect" that someone is in the country
>>> illegally means simply that "anyone who looks Mexican" could have
>>> their race, language, ethnicity, customs become probable cause for
>>> questioning. The idea of "driving while Mexican" used to be a
>>> wry, sick joke. Now, it's a cornerstone for "law and order," and
>>> it reeks.
>>>
>>> I hope our local "Libertarians" and freedom lovers join me in
>>> condemning this bill with all vehemence. Because if not, the
>>> silence from their keyboards, fieldhouses, and offices would be
>>> deafening, given the incessant braying recently about the State's
>>> denial of rights, pronounced threats to liberty, and an alarming
>>> erosion of Constitutional and family values.
>>>
>>> Keely
>>> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>>>
>>> Keely
>>> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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