[Vision2020] Racism Enshrined in Arizona Law
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Sat Apr 24 13:45:04 PDT 2010
I don't understand your viewpoint on illegal immigrants. Sure, they are
breaking Federal law. But these are people so impoverished and
desperate that they would climb a fence, avoid armed guards, and cross a
desert on foot just to be able to work here for low wages and long
hours. Hell, there are people here that won't even walk down to the
damn Job Service and look for a job unless they are forced to. And you
think we should prosecute them, deport them, and make sure they never
try it again? I say, let's find a way to make these guys legal and
let's get them a job that isn't paid under the table so we can earn some
tax money on them.
That's what I mean about this country having to have a change of heart
before this immigration mess will ever be cleared up.
Paul
Wayne Price wrote:
> Paul,
>
> I agree that this is an issue that there are no simple answers to.
> When you said "what we are now doing which is holding illegal
> immigration to be a status that should be demonized", shouldn't it be?
> I am NOT talking about those in this country legally, but those in the
> country illegally. Those folks that have jumped through the hoops
> have paid their dues so to speak and should
> be welcomed and should be held up as great examples. Those however
> that have entered illegally, have in fact committed a federal crime
> and should be prosecuted, deported and barred
> from re-entry.
>
> Now, one of the areas that does impact us locally is with the
> certification that has to be submitted by employers to the Department
> of Labor to bring in foreign workers.
>
> The employer has to certify:
>
> * There are insufficient available, qualified, and willing U.S.
> workers to fill the position being offered at the prevailing wage
> * Hiring a foreign worker will not adversely affect the wages and
> working conditions of similarly employed U.S. workers
>
>
> Just think about this when it involves the University and bringing in
> employees from outside the US. The University is saying, "There are
> insufficient available, qualified, and willing U.S. workers to fill
> the position being offered at the prevailing wage". Well, what is that
> based on? Notice there is NO mention of "best qualified", just
> "qualified". For instance, a position becomes available at the
> University. Several people including US citizens, put in for the
> position and a foreign national is given there job. Now, when the
> University certifies to the federal government that "There are
> insufficient available, qualified, and willing U.S. workers to fill
> the position being offered at the prevailing wage" is it true? And is
> it even looked into or is the certification taken on face value and
> no subsequent investigation as to the truth or falsehood of the
> statement by the employer is made? And there is a pro-forma process
> where the notification is "posted" for two weeks outside an obscure
> office door where the other applicants are unlikely to ever see it
> and be able to contest the hiring decision. And a better question
> would be who makes the determination at the employer level that
> "There are insufficient available, qualified, and willing U.S.
> workers to fill the position being offered at the prevailing wage?"
> Some clerk? The University President? Who is held responsible IF a
> determination is made that the statement is false? What is the
> consequence? Currently, it doesn't appear to be any at all, so why
> would the "system" ever change?
>
> This is just an example of large gaps in the current immigration
> system that should be plugged. It is also one of the reasons why laws
> like the one Arizona are passed and why there is such a strong
> backlash against illegal immigrants. When qualified US citizens are
> passed over for US taxpayer funded jobs to bring in a foreign
> national, there is bound to be a backlash. And the depressed economic
> situation adds to that backlash and frustration.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 24, 2010, at 9:15 AM, Paul Rumelhart wrote:
>
>>
>> Perhaps we should convict the employers even if they didn't know that
>> they hired an illegal alien. It might make them care about due
>> diligence when hiring someone a little bit more. I imagine that most
>> of these people aren't being paid at executive levels, they are
>> probably being paid at much less than minimum wage. That alone
>> should be a sign that they don't have a legal status. I don't think
>> it's a case of employers being duped by devious immigrants, they are
>> in this with their eyes wide open.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> lfalen wrote:
>>> This sounds good on the face of it. The problem is in how do you
>>> known if they are an illegal alien? Will people have to produce some
>>> sort of proof that they are a legal resident? These documents can
>>> and are forged. I have no problem with convecting employers if it
>>> can be proven that they knowingly hired illegals. This may be hard
>>> to prove.
>>> Roger
>>> -----Original message-----
>>> From: "Mike Deleve" coolerfixer at roadrunner.com
>>> <mailto:coolerfixer at roadrunner.com>
>>> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 18:50:03 -0700
>>> To: "Wayne Price" bear at moscow.com <mailto:bear at moscow.com>, "keely
>>> emerinemix" kjajmix1 at msn.com <mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Racism Enshrined in Arizona Law
>>>
>>>
>>>> It's incredibly easy. $100,000 mandatory fine with 1 year MANDATORY
>>>> time in FEDERAL PRISON for anyone employing an illegal alien.
>>>> Employers are taking advantage of the border jumpers, but the
>>>> employment is why they come.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Wayne Price To: keely
>>>> emerinemix Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com> Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 5:30 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Racism Enshrined in Arizona Law
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Keely,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> While I agree that this has opened a whole can of worms as far as
>>>> profiling, DWM, etc, etc, What can or should be done about ILLEGAL
>>>> immigrants?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There is a process, for better or worse that allows folks that are
>>>> not US citizens access to the US and to jobs in the US. From what I
>>>> understand, the AZ law isn't going after
>>>> those folks at all. It is focused on the illegal immigrants.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Solutions?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 3:26 PM, keely emerinemix wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Arizona Governor Signs a Controversial Immigration Bill
>>>> > > Gov. Jan Brewer of Arizona signed a bill that would require
>>>> > the police to ask people about their immigration status if
>>>> > officers have any reason to suspect that they are in the
>>>> > country illegally. (NY Times, April 23, 2010)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is shameful.
>>>>
>>>> "Any reason to suspect" that someone is in the country illegally
>>>> means simply that "anyone who looks Mexican" could have their race,
>>>> language, ethnicity, customs become probable cause for questioning.
>>>> The idea of "driving while Mexican" used to be a wry, sick joke.
>>>> Now, it's a cornerstone for "law and order," and it reeks.
>>>>
>>>> I hope our local "Libertarians" and freedom lovers join me in
>>>> condemning this bill with all vehemence. Because if not, the
>>>> silence from their keyboards, fieldhouses, and offices would be
>>>> deafening, given the incessant braying recently about the State's
>>>> denial of rights, pronounced threats to liberty, and an alarming
>>>> erosion of Constitutional and family values.
>>>>
>>>> Keely
>>>> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com <http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com>
>>>>
>>>> Keely
>>>> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com <http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>
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