[Vision2020] Fw: Liberal Agenda
Andy Boyd
moscowrecycling at turbonet.com
Thu Dec 3 13:56:42 PST 2009
Yes, and the movie Refer Madness was part of that propaganda.
It's ironic that our countries most treasured documents are written on hemp paper grown by our founding fathers.
I also think that Teddy Roosevelt is rolling in his grave. He got rid of the robber barrons that has now been replaced by the robber lobbyists!!
Andy Boyd
Manager/Education Coordinator
Moscow Recycling
208 882 0590
----- Original Message -----
From: donald edwards
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda
Aha, no difference in print quality but huge difference in other qualities. I recently learned that hemp is 70% cellulose compared to wood at only 30%. This explains why paper from wood must be chemically teated with poisons (toulene, bleach, etc.) and is still weaker and shorter lived paper than hemp. DOW chemicals had a say in lobbying for propagandizing hemp, alongside William Randolf Hurst who owned 20mil. acres of trees and the world's largest newspaper.
Don
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 11:18:32 -0800 (PST)
> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> To: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Message-ID: <f5873f1184aa6479a097c865c696eb0b.squirrel at secure.fsr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> For special flyers or posters (i.e. announcement of "The First Annual
> Intolerista Wingding" earlier this year) I use hemp paper purchased from
> Canada.
>
> Believe it or not, there is a discernible difference in print quality
> between Canadian hemp paper and American bond paper.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> > Andy
> > You make some good points. I don't like most subsidies either and I favor
> > making Industrial Hemp legal.
> > Roger
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: "Andy Boyd" moscowrecycling at turbonet.com
> > Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:18:38 -0800
> > To: "lfalen" lfalen at turbonet.com, "Gier, Nicholas" NGIER at uidaho.edu,
> > "Kenneth Marcy" kmmos1 at verizon.net, vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> >
> >> Roger,
> >> It may seem ridiculous but everyone says 'free market' and it's a fraud.
> >> The reason one would aspire to a free market is because it would
> >> regulate
> >> itself regarding supply and demand. Take the paper industry,
> >> economically,
> >> paper is cheaper to make from hemp but we place regulations (industrial
> >> hemp
> >> is illegal) and supply subsidies to these corporations to keep the price
> >> of
> >> paper from wood cheaper than hemp that is produced legally in other
> >> countries. This is one example of thousands. Certainly anyone is
> >> allowed
> >> to engage in a business of ones choosing but depending on the business
> >> the
> >> cards are not close to fair or free. The farmer that gets fined by
> >> Monsanto
> >> when a genetically modified plant shows up in their field even though
> >> they
> >> don't use Monsanto GMO products is another case and point. The market
> >> and
> >> regulators don't treat them fairly. A free market could actually help
> >> some
> >> of our environmental 'situations'. If we in the United States had to pay
> >> a
> >> true market value for food, wood or petroleum products for example, many
> >> of
> >> the alternative products out 'there' would end up being the same price
> >> or
> >> cheaper, altering our purchasing habits. Ahh, so much to criticize.
> >> And yes, truth in advertising would be great but even if you try to
> >> prosecute these inaccuracies, the cards are stacked against the average
> >> citizen.
> >> that's enought for me today.
> >> Andy Boyd
> >> Manager/Education Coordinator
> >> Moscow Recycling
> >> 208 882 0590
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> >> To: "Andy Boyd" <moscowrecycling at turbonet.com>; "Gier, Nicholas"
> >> <NGIER at uidaho.edu>; "Kenneth Marcy" <kmmos1 at verizon.net>;
> >> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:27 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> >>
> >>
> >> > Andy
> >> > You are being a little ridiculous. You should know what I ment. It is
> >> the
> >> > right t engage in a business of your choosing, To make a profit and to
> >> go
> >> > broke. The government does not need to make a profit and is therefore
> >> > inefficient. Some regulation is needed, a totally open market with no
> >> > holds bared would not protect the citizenry from fraud or other
> >> abuses.
> >> > On the whole though there are to many regulations. In some cases ther
> >> > should be more. There should be more regulation on truth in
> >> advertising in
> >> > the health food supplement industry. Some Herbal supplements are very
> >> > helpful, some are worthless and some are down right dangerous.
> >> > Roger
> >> > -----Original message-----
> >> > From: "Andy Boyd" moscowrecycling at turbonet.com
> >> > Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 13:08:07 -0800
> >> > To: "lfalen" lfalen at turbonet.com, "Gier, Nicholas" NGIER at uidaho.edu,
> >> > "Kenneth Marcy" kmmos1 at verizon.net, vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> >> >
> >> >> I have yet to see this 'free market" to which you refer. Might you
> >> give
> >> >> an
> >> >> example where markets are free?
> >> >> Andy Boyd
> >> >> Manager/Education Coordinator
> >> >> Moscow Recycling
> >> >> 208 882 0590
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> >> >> To: "Andy Boyd" <moscowrecycling at turbonet.com>; "Gier, Nicholas"
> >> >> <NGIER at uidaho.edu>; "Kenneth Marcy" <kmmos1 at verizon.net>;
> >> >> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 12:00 PM
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > No. Capitalism as embodied in the free market system allows one to
> >> >> > freely
> >> >> > engage in any legal business they see fit. The role of government
> >> >> > should
> >> >> > be see that businesses do not deceive the public or engage in
> >> unfair
> >> >> > business practices.
> >> >> > Roger
> >> >> > -----Original message-----
> >> >> > From: "Andy Boyd" moscowrecycling at turbonet.com
> >> >> > Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:37:26 -0800
> >> >> > To: "lfalen" lfalen at turbonet.com, "Gier, Nicholas"
> >> NGIER at uidaho.edu,
> >> >> > "Kenneth Marcy" kmmos1 at verizon.net, vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Couldn't you argue that capitalism is a form of behavior control,
> >> >> >> turning
> >> >> >> us
> >> >> >> all into good little consumers, all occuring in the last 50 years?
> >> >> >> Andy Boyd
> >> >> >> Manager/Education Coordinator
> >> >> >> Moscow Recycling
> >> >> >> 208 882 0590
> >> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> >> From: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> >> >> >> To: "Gier, Nicholas" <NGIER at uidaho.edu>; "Kenneth Marcy"
> >> >> >> <kmmos1 at verizon.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> >> >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:49 AM
> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > Nick
> >> >> >> > I think that your definition is correct and would be in line
> >> with
> >> >> >> > that
> >> >> >> > of
> >> >> >> > John Stuart Mill. To be liberal should mean that one allows for
> >> the
> >> >> >> > behavior of others to be different from their own, even though
> >> they
> >> >> >> > may
> >> >> >> > not like it. This is why I use the term leftist to identify
> >> those
> >> >> >> > who
> >> >> >> > want
> >> >> >> > the state to control of our behavior. They are anything but
> >> >> >> > liberal,
> >> >> >> > Some
> >> >> >> > of those on the far right want to do the same.
> >> >> >> > Roger
> >> >> >> > -----Original message-----
> >> >> >> > From: "Gier, Nicholas" NGIER at uidaho.edu
> >> >> >> > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:10:48 -0800
> >> >> >> > To: "Kenneth Marcy" kmmos1 at verizon.net, vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> Greetings Visionaries:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> I'm on a futile crusade to bring everyone back to the original
> >> >> >> >> meaning
> >> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> >> the word "liberal," from the Latin word "liberalis," meaning
> >> >> >> >> "pertaining
> >> >> >> >> to a free person," the "liberi" as opposed to the "servi," the
> >> >> >> >> "serfs"
> >> >> >> >> who were not free.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> The genius of the American and French Revolutions was the
> >> >> >> >> declaration
> >> >> >> >> that we are all free with inalienable rights to life, liberty,
> >> and
> >> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >> pursuit of happiness. The "servi" no longer exist.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> For more read my column "We Are All Liberals--Well, Almost
> >> All."
> >> >> >> >> (www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/liberalism.htm) The exceptions are
> >> >> >> >> people
> >> >> >> >> such as Doug Wilson and his sordid gang of Paleo-Conservatives.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> May you all have a very Liberal Thanksgiving,
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Nick Gier
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> >> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com on behalf of Kenneth Marcy
> >> >> >> >> Sent: Wed 11/25/2009 9:27 AM
> >> >> >> >> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> On Tuesday 24 November 2009 18:43:03 John Pool wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > I'm confused. Just what *is* a liberal agenda? Is it
> >> something
> >> >> >> >> > that
> >> >> >> >> > all liberals have to agree on, or just some? Does it have to
> >> be a
> >> >> >> >> > majority, or can it be less than that? What happens if a
> >> moderate
> >> >> >> >> > or centrist seeks the same end? Does that make her/him a
> >> liberal
> >> >> >> >> > automatically? I'd like some clarification here.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> When the phrase "liberal agenda" is used, usually it is a
> >> >> >> >> pejorative
> >> >> >> >> reference by someone talking against whatever is perceived to
> >> be
> >> >> >> >> undesirable about the matters to which they refer. The phrase
> >> has
> >> >> >> >> developed into a shorthand ad hominem argument against whatever
> >> >> >> >> policy the (conservative) speaker opposes.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Liberal is a relative term that needs a reference points in
> >> time
> >> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >> >> place, culture and subject, and policy status quo vis-??-vis
> >> someone
> >> >> >> >> observing. To use it without such referents may be diversionary
> >> and
> >> >> >> >> counterproductive toward effective discussion, which may be the
> >> >> >> >> desired effect.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> I suspect actual liberals just dispense with using the term in
> >> >> >> >> favor
> >> >> >> >> of something more specific, such as legislative agenda or party
> >> >> >> >> platform. On the other hand, in the case of Thanksgiving, a
> >> >> >> >> well-set
> >> >> >> >> table and congenial guests make the agenda and the event the
> >> same.
> >> >> >> >> Happy Holiday.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Ken
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> =======================================================
> >> >> >> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> >> >> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> >> >> >> http://www.fsr.net
> >> >> >> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> >> >> >> =======================================================
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > =======================================================
> >> >> >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> >> >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> >> >> > http://www.fsr.net
> >> >> >> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> >> >> > =======================================================
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
>
>
> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change
> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
>
> - Unknown
>
>
>
>
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>
> End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 42, Issue 8
> *****************************************
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