[Vision2020] Liberal Agenda

Thu Dec 3 13:26:02 PST 2009

Aha, no difference in print quality but huge difference in other qualities.  I recently learned that hemp is 70% cellulose compared to wood at only 30%.  This explains why paper from wood must be chemically teated with poisons (toulene, bleach, etc.) and is still weaker and shorter lived paper than hemp.  DOW chemicals had a say in lobbying for propagandizing hemp, alongside William Randolf Hurst who owned 20mil. acres of trees and the world's largest newspaper.

Don

> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 11:18:32 -0800 (PST)
> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> To: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Message-ID: <f5873f1184aa6479a097c865c696eb0b.squirrel at secure.fsr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> For special flyers or posters (i.e. announcement of "The First Annual
> Intolerista Wingding" earlier this year) I use hemp paper purchased from
> Canada.
> 
> Believe it or not, there is a discernible difference in print quality
> between Canadian hemp paper and American bond paper.
> 
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
> 
> > Andy
> > You make some good points. I don't like most subsidies either and I favor
> > making Industrial Hemp legal.
> > Roger
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: "Andy Boyd" moscowrecycling at turbonet.com
> > Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:18:38 -0800
> > To: "lfalen" lfalen at turbonet.com, "Gier, Nicholas" NGIER at uidaho.edu,
> > "Kenneth Marcy" kmmos1 at verizon.net, vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> >
> >> Roger,
> >> It may seem ridiculous but everyone says 'free market' and it's a fraud.
> >> The reason one would aspire to a free market is because it would
> >> regulate
> >> itself regarding supply and demand. Take the paper industry,
> >> economically,
> >> paper is cheaper to make from hemp but we place regulations (industrial
> >> hemp
> >> is illegal) and supply subsidies to these corporations to keep the price
> >> of
> >> paper from wood cheaper than hemp that is produced legally in other
> >> countries. This is one example of thousands. Certainly anyone is
> >> allowed
> >> to engage in a business of ones choosing but depending on the business
> >> the
> >> cards are not close to fair or free. The farmer that gets fined by
> >> Monsanto
> >> when a genetically modified plant shows up in their field even though
> >> they
> >> don't use Monsanto GMO products is another case and point. The market
> >> and
> >> regulators don't treat them fairly. A free market could actually help
> >> some
> >> of our environmental 'situations'. If we in the United States had to pay
> >> a
> >> true market value for food, wood or petroleum products for example, many
> >> of
> >> the alternative products out 'there' would end up being the same price
> >> or
> >> cheaper, altering our purchasing habits. Ahh, so much to criticize.
> >> And yes, truth in advertising would be great but even if you try to
> >> prosecute these inaccuracies, the cards are stacked against the average
> >> citizen.
> >> that's enought for me today.
> >> Andy Boyd
> >> Manager/Education Coordinator
> >> Moscow Recycling
> >> 208 882 0590
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> >> To: "Andy Boyd" <moscowrecycling at turbonet.com>; "Gier, Nicholas"
> >> <NGIER at uidaho.edu>; "Kenneth Marcy" <kmmos1 at verizon.net>;
> >> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:27 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> >>
> >>
> >> > Andy
> >> > You are being a little ridiculous. You should know what I ment. It is
> >> the
> >> > right t engage in a business of your choosing, To make a profit and to
> >> go
> >> > broke. The government does not need to make a profit and is therefore
> >> > inefficient. Some regulation is needed, a totally open market with no
> >> > holds bared would not protect the citizenry from fraud or other
> >> abuses.
> >> > On the whole though there are to many regulations. In some cases ther
> >> > should be more. There should be more regulation on truth in
> >> advertising in
> >> > the health food supplement industry. Some Herbal supplements are very
> >> > helpful, some are worthless and some are down right dangerous.
> >> > Roger
> >> > -----Original message-----
> >> > From: "Andy Boyd" moscowrecycling at turbonet.com
> >> > Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 13:08:07 -0800
> >> > To: "lfalen" lfalen at turbonet.com, "Gier, Nicholas" NGIER at uidaho.edu,
> >> > "Kenneth Marcy" kmmos1 at verizon.net, vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> >> >
> >> >> I have yet to see this 'free market" to which you refer. Might you
> >> give
> >> >> an
> >> >> example where markets are free?
> >> >> Andy Boyd
> >> >> Manager/Education Coordinator
> >> >> Moscow Recycling
> >> >> 208 882 0590
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> >> >> To: "Andy Boyd" <moscowrecycling at turbonet.com>; "Gier, Nicholas"
> >> >> <NGIER at uidaho.edu>; "Kenneth Marcy" <kmmos1 at verizon.net>;
> >> >> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 12:00 PM
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > No. Capitalism as embodied in the free market system allows one to
> >> >> > freely
> >> >> > engage in any legal business they see fit. The role of government
> >> >> > should
> >> >> > be see that businesses do not deceive the public or engage in
> >> unfair
> >> >> > business practices.
> >> >> > Roger
> >> >> > -----Original message-----
> >> >> > From: "Andy Boyd" moscowrecycling at turbonet.com
> >> >> > Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:37:26 -0800
> >> >> > To: "lfalen" lfalen at turbonet.com, "Gier, Nicholas"
> >> NGIER at uidaho.edu,
> >> >> > "Kenneth Marcy" kmmos1 at verizon.net, vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Couldn't you argue that capitalism is a form of behavior control,
> >> >> >> turning
> >> >> >> us
> >> >> >> all into good little consumers, all occuring in the last 50 years?
> >> >> >> Andy Boyd
> >> >> >> Manager/Education Coordinator
> >> >> >> Moscow Recycling
> >> >> >> 208 882 0590
> >> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> >> From: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> >> >> >> To: "Gier, Nicholas" <NGIER at uidaho.edu>; "Kenneth Marcy"
> >> >> >> <kmmos1 at verizon.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> >> >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:49 AM
> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > Nick
> >> >> >> > I think that your definition is correct and would be in line
> >> with
> >> >> >> > that
> >> >> >> > of
> >> >> >> > John Stuart Mill. To be liberal should mean that one allows for
> >> the
> >> >> >> > behavior of others to be different from their own, even though
> >> they
> >> >> >> > may
> >> >> >> > not like it. This is why I use the term leftist to identify
> >> those
> >> >> >> > who
> >> >> >> > want
> >> >> >> > the state to control of our behavior. They are anything but
> >> >> >> > liberal,
> >> >> >> > Some
> >> >> >> > of those on the far right want to do the same.
> >> >> >> > Roger
> >> >> >> > -----Original message-----
> >> >> >> > From: "Gier, Nicholas" NGIER at uidaho.edu
> >> >> >> > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:10:48 -0800
> >> >> >> > To: "Kenneth Marcy" kmmos1 at verizon.net, vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> Greetings Visionaries:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> I'm on a futile crusade to bring everyone back to the original
> >> >> >> >> meaning
> >> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> >> the word "liberal," from the Latin word "liberalis," meaning
> >> >> >> >> "pertaining
> >> >> >> >> to a free person," the "liberi" as opposed to the "servi," the
> >> >> >> >> "serfs"
> >> >> >> >> who were not free.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> The genius of the American and French Revolutions was the
> >> >> >> >> declaration
> >> >> >> >> that we are all free with inalienable rights to life, liberty,
> >> and
> >> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >> pursuit of happiness. The "servi" no longer exist.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> For more read my column "We Are All Liberals--Well, Almost
> >> All."
> >> >> >> >> (www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/liberalism.htm) The exceptions are
> >> >> >> >> people
> >> >> >> >> such as Doug Wilson and his sordid gang of Paleo-Conservatives.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> May you all have a very Liberal Thanksgiving,
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Nick Gier
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> >> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com on behalf of Kenneth Marcy
> >> >> >> >> Sent: Wed 11/25/2009 9:27 AM
> >> >> >> >> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> On Tuesday 24 November 2009 18:43:03 John Pool wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > I'm confused. Just what *is* a liberal agenda? Is it
> >> something
> >> >> >> >> > that
> >> >> >> >> > all liberals have to agree on, or just some? Does it have to
> >> be a
> >> >> >> >> > majority, or can it be less than that? What happens if a
> >> moderate
> >> >> >> >> > or centrist seeks the same end? Does that make her/him a
> >> liberal
> >> >> >> >> > automatically? I'd like some clarification here.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> When the phrase "liberal agenda" is used, usually it is a
> >> >> >> >> pejorative
> >> >> >> >> reference by someone talking against whatever is perceived to
> >> be
> >> >> >> >> undesirable about the matters to which they refer. The phrase
> >> has
> >> >> >> >> developed into a shorthand ad hominem argument against whatever
> >> >> >> >> policy the (conservative) speaker opposes.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Liberal is a relative term that needs a reference points in
> >> time
> >> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >> >> place, culture and subject, and policy status quo vis-??-vis
> >> someone
> >> >> >> >> observing. To use it without such referents may be diversionary
> >> and
> >> >> >> >> counterproductive toward effective discussion, which may be the
> >> >> >> >> desired effect.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> I suspect actual liberals just dispense with using the term in
> >> >> >> >> favor
> >> >> >> >> of something more specific, such as legislative agenda or party
> >> >> >> >> platform. On the other hand, in the case of Thanksgiving, a
> >> >> >> >> well-set
> >> >> >> >> table and congenial guests make the agenda and the event the
> >> same.
> >> >> >> >> Happy Holiday.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Ken
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> =======================================================
> >> >> >> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> >> >> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> >> >> >> http://www.fsr.net
> >> >> >> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> >> >> >> =======================================================
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > =======================================================
> >> >> >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> >> >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> >> >> > http://www.fsr.net
> >> >> >> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> >> >> > =======================================================
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> 
> 
> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change
> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
> 
> - Unknown
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet, 
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. 
> http://www.fsr.net 
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
> 
> End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 42, Issue 8
> *****************************************

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