[Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
Tom Hansen
thansen at moscow.com
Thu Dec 3 11:18:32 PST 2009
For special flyers or posters (i.e. announcement of "The First Annual
Intolerista Wingding" earlier this year) I use hemp paper purchased from
Canada.
Believe it or not, there is a discernible difference in print quality
between Canadian hemp paper and American bond paper.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
> Andy
> You make some good points. I don't like most subsidies either and I favor
> making Industrial Hemp legal.
> Roger
> -----Original message-----
> From: "Andy Boyd" moscowrecycling at turbonet.com
> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:18:38 -0800
> To: "lfalen" lfalen at turbonet.com, "Gier, Nicholas" NGIER at uidaho.edu,
> "Kenneth Marcy" kmmos1 at verizon.net, vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
>
>> Roger,
>> It may seem ridiculous but everyone says 'free market' and it's a fraud.
>> The reason one would aspire to a free market is because it would
>> regulate
>> itself regarding supply and demand. Take the paper industry,
>> economically,
>> paper is cheaper to make from hemp but we place regulations (industrial
>> hemp
>> is illegal) and supply subsidies to these corporations to keep the price
>> of
>> paper from wood cheaper than hemp that is produced legally in other
>> countries. This is one example of thousands. Certainly anyone is
>> allowed
>> to engage in a business of ones choosing but depending on the business
>> the
>> cards are not close to fair or free. The farmer that gets fined by
>> Monsanto
>> when a genetically modified plant shows up in their field even though
>> they
>> don't use Monsanto GMO products is another case and point. The market
>> and
>> regulators don't treat them fairly. A free market could actually help
>> some
>> of our environmental 'situations'. If we in the United States had to pay
>> a
>> true market value for food, wood or petroleum products for example, many
>> of
>> the alternative products out 'there' would end up being the same price
>> or
>> cheaper, altering our purchasing habits. Ahh, so much to criticize.
>> And yes, truth in advertising would be great but even if you try to
>> prosecute these inaccuracies, the cards are stacked against the average
>> citizen.
>> that's enought for me today.
>> Andy Boyd
>> Manager/Education Coordinator
>> Moscow Recycling
>> 208 882 0590
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
>> To: "Andy Boyd" <moscowrecycling at turbonet.com>; "Gier, Nicholas"
>> <NGIER at uidaho.edu>; "Kenneth Marcy" <kmmos1 at verizon.net>;
>> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
>>
>>
>> > Andy
>> > You are being a little ridiculous. You should know what I ment. It is
>> the
>> > right t engage in a business of your choosing, To make a profit and to
>> go
>> > broke. The government does not need to make a profit and is therefore
>> > inefficient. Some regulation is needed, a totally open market with no
>> > holds bared would not protect the citizenry from fraud or other
>> abuses.
>> > On the whole though there are to many regulations. In some cases ther
>> > should be more. There should be more regulation on truth in
>> advertising in
>> > the health food supplement industry. Some Herbal supplements are very
>> > helpful, some are worthless and some are down right dangerous.
>> > Roger
>> > -----Original message-----
>> > From: "Andy Boyd" moscowrecycling at turbonet.com
>> > Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 13:08:07 -0800
>> > To: "lfalen" lfalen at turbonet.com, "Gier, Nicholas" NGIER at uidaho.edu,
>> > "Kenneth Marcy" kmmos1 at verizon.net, vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
>> >
>> >> I have yet to see this 'free market" to which you refer. Might you
>> give
>> >> an
>> >> example where markets are free?
>> >> Andy Boyd
>> >> Manager/Education Coordinator
>> >> Moscow Recycling
>> >> 208 882 0590
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
>> >> To: "Andy Boyd" <moscowrecycling at turbonet.com>; "Gier, Nicholas"
>> >> <NGIER at uidaho.edu>; "Kenneth Marcy" <kmmos1 at verizon.net>;
>> >> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 12:00 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > No. Capitalism as embodied in the free market system allows one to
>> >> > freely
>> >> > engage in any legal business they see fit. The role of government
>> >> > should
>> >> > be see that businesses do not deceive the public or engage in
>> unfair
>> >> > business practices.
>> >> > Roger
>> >> > -----Original message-----
>> >> > From: "Andy Boyd" moscowrecycling at turbonet.com
>> >> > Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:37:26 -0800
>> >> > To: "lfalen" lfalen at turbonet.com, "Gier, Nicholas"
>> NGIER at uidaho.edu,
>> >> > "Kenneth Marcy" kmmos1 at verizon.net, vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
>> >> >
>> >> >> Couldn't you argue that capitalism is a form of behavior control,
>> >> >> turning
>> >> >> us
>> >> >> all into good little consumers, all occuring in the last 50 years?
>> >> >> Andy Boyd
>> >> >> Manager/Education Coordinator
>> >> >> Moscow Recycling
>> >> >> 208 882 0590
>> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> From: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
>> >> >> To: "Gier, Nicholas" <NGIER at uidaho.edu>; "Kenneth Marcy"
>> >> >> <kmmos1 at verizon.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >> >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:49 AM
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Nick
>> >> >> > I think that your definition is correct and would be in line
>> with
>> >> >> > that
>> >> >> > of
>> >> >> > John Stuart Mill. To be liberal should mean that one allows for
>> the
>> >> >> > behavior of others to be different from their own, even though
>> they
>> >> >> > may
>> >> >> > not like it. This is why I use the term leftist to identify
>> those
>> >> >> > who
>> >> >> > want
>> >> >> > the state to control of our behavior. They are anything but
>> >> >> > liberal,
>> >> >> > Some
>> >> >> > of those on the far right want to do the same.
>> >> >> > Roger
>> >> >> > -----Original message-----
>> >> >> > From: "Gier, Nicholas" NGIER at uidaho.edu
>> >> >> > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:10:48 -0800
>> >> >> > To: "Kenneth Marcy" kmmos1 at verizon.net, vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Greetings Visionaries:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I'm on a futile crusade to bring everyone back to the original
>> >> >> >> meaning
>> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> the word "liberal," from the Latin word "liberalis," meaning
>> >> >> >> "pertaining
>> >> >> >> to a free person," the "liberi" as opposed to the "servi," the
>> >> >> >> "serfs"
>> >> >> >> who were not free.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> The genius of the American and French Revolutions was the
>> >> >> >> declaration
>> >> >> >> that we are all free with inalienable rights to life, liberty,
>> and
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> pursuit of happiness. The "servi" no longer exist.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> For more read my column "We Are All Liberals--Well, Almost
>> All."
>> >> >> >> (www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/liberalism.htm) The exceptions are
>> >> >> >> people
>> >> >> >> such as Doug Wilson and his sordid gang of Paleo-Conservatives.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> May you all have a very Liberal Thanksgiving,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Nick Gier
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> >> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com on behalf of Kenneth Marcy
>> >> >> >> Sent: Wed 11/25/2009 9:27 AM
>> >> >> >> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On Tuesday 24 November 2009 18:43:03 John Pool wrote:
>> >> >> >> > I'm confused. Just what *is* a liberal agenda? Is it
>> something
>> >> >> >> > that
>> >> >> >> > all liberals have to agree on, or just some? Does it have to
>> be a
>> >> >> >> > majority, or can it be less than that? What happens if a
>> moderate
>> >> >> >> > or centrist seeks the same end? Does that make her/him a
>> liberal
>> >> >> >> > automatically? I'd like some clarification here.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> When the phrase "liberal agenda" is used, usually it is a
>> >> >> >> pejorative
>> >> >> >> reference by someone talking against whatever is perceived to
>> be
>> >> >> >> undesirable about the matters to which they refer. The phrase
>> has
>> >> >> >> developed into a shorthand ad hominem argument against whatever
>> >> >> >> policy the (conservative) speaker opposes.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Liberal is a relative term that needs a reference points in
>> time
>> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> place, culture and subject, and policy status quo vis-Ã -vis
>> someone
>> >> >> >> observing. To use it without such referents may be diversionary
>> and
>> >> >> >> counterproductive toward effective discussion, which may be the
>> >> >> >> desired effect.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I suspect actual liberals just dispense with using the term in
>> >> >> >> favor
>> >> >> >> of something more specific, such as legislative agenda or party
>> >> >> >> platform. On the other hand, in the case of Thanksgiving, a
>> >> >> >> well-set
>> >> >> >> table and congenial guests make the agenda and the event the
>> same.
>> >> >> >> Happy Holiday.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Ken
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> =======================================================
>> >> >> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >> >> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >> >> >> http://www.fsr.net
>> >> >> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >> >> >> =======================================================
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > =======================================================
>> >> >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >> >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >> >> > http://www.fsr.net
>> >> >> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >> >> > =======================================================
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
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