[Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?

lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
Thu Dec 3 10:12:17 PST 2009


Andy
You make some good points. I don't like most subsidies either and I favor making Industrial Hemp legal.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: "Andy Boyd" moscowrecycling at turbonet.com
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:18:38 -0800
To: "lfalen" lfalen at turbonet.com, "Gier, Nicholas" NGIER at uidaho.edu, "Kenneth Marcy" kmmos1 at verizon.net, vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?

> Roger,
> It may seem ridiculous but everyone says 'free market' and it's a fraud. 
> The reason one would aspire to a free market is because it would regulate 
> itself regarding supply and demand.  Take the paper industry, economically, 
> paper is cheaper to make from hemp but we place regulations (industrial hemp 
> is illegal) and supply subsidies to these corporations to keep the price of 
> paper from wood cheaper than hemp that is produced legally in other 
> countries.  This is one example of thousands.  Certainly anyone is allowed 
> to engage in a business of ones choosing but depending on the business the 
> cards are not close to fair or free.  The farmer that gets fined by Monsanto 
> when a genetically modified plant shows up in their field even though they 
> don't use Monsanto GMO products is another case and point.  The market and 
> regulators don't treat them fairly.  A free market could actually help some 
> of our environmental 'situations'. If we in the United States had to pay a 
> true market value for food, wood or petroleum products for example, many of 
> the alternative products out 'there' would end up being the same price or 
> cheaper, altering our purchasing habits.  Ahh, so much to criticize.
> And yes, truth in advertising would be great but even if you try to 
> prosecute these inaccuracies, the cards are stacked against the average 
> citizen.
> that's enought for me today.
> Andy Boyd
> Manager/Education Coordinator
> Moscow Recycling
> 208 882 0590
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> To: "Andy Boyd" <moscowrecycling at turbonet.com>; "Gier, Nicholas" 
> <NGIER at uidaho.edu>; "Kenneth Marcy" <kmmos1 at verizon.net>; 
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> 
> 
> > Andy
> > You are being a little ridiculous. You should know what I ment. It is the 
> > right t engage in a business of your choosing, To make a profit and to go 
> > broke. The government does not need to make a profit and is therefore 
> > inefficient. Some regulation is needed, a totally open market with no 
> > holds bared would not protect the citizenry  from fraud or other abuses. 
> > On the whole though there are to many regulations. In some cases ther 
> > should be more. There should be more regulation on truth in advertising in 
> > the health food supplement industry. Some Herbal supplements are very 
> > helpful, some are worthless and some are down right dangerous.
> > Roger
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: "Andy Boyd" moscowrecycling at turbonet.com
> > Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 13:08:07 -0800
> > To: "lfalen" lfalen at turbonet.com, "Gier, Nicholas" NGIER at uidaho.edu, 
> > "Kenneth Marcy" kmmos1 at verizon.net, vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> >
> >> I have yet to see this 'free market" to which you refer.  Might you give 
> >> an
> >> example where markets are free?
> >> Andy Boyd
> >> Manager/Education Coordinator
> >> Moscow Recycling
> >> 208 882 0590
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> >> To: "Andy Boyd" <moscowrecycling at turbonet.com>; "Gier, Nicholas"
> >> <NGIER at uidaho.edu>; "Kenneth Marcy" <kmmos1 at verizon.net>;
> >> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 12:00 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> >>
> >>
> >> > No. Capitalism as embodied in the free market system allows one to 
> >> > freely
> >> > engage in any legal business they see fit. The  role of government 
> >> > should
> >> > be see that businesses do not deceive the public or engage in unfair
> >> > business practices.
> >> > Roger
> >> > -----Original message-----
> >> > From: "Andy Boyd" moscowrecycling at turbonet.com
> >> > Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:37:26 -0800
> >> > To: "lfalen" lfalen at turbonet.com, "Gier, Nicholas" NGIER at uidaho.edu,
> >> > "Kenneth Marcy" kmmos1 at verizon.net, vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> >> >
> >> >> Couldn't you argue that capitalism is a form of behavior control, 
> >> >> turning
> >> >> us
> >> >> all into good little consumers, all occuring in the last 50 years?
> >> >> Andy Boyd
> >> >> Manager/Education Coordinator
> >> >> Moscow Recycling
> >> >> 208 882 0590
> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> >> From: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> >> >> To: "Gier, Nicholas" <NGIER at uidaho.edu>; "Kenneth Marcy"
> >> >> <kmmos1 at verizon.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:49 AM
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > Nick
> >> >> > I think that your definition is correct and would be in line with 
> >> >> > that
> >> >> > of
> >> >> > John Stuart Mill. To be liberal should mean that one allows for the
> >> >> > behavior of others to be different from their own, even though they 
> >> >> > may
> >> >> > not like it. This is why I use the term leftist to identify those 
> >> >> > who
> >> >> > want
> >> >> > the state to control of our behavior.  They are anything but 
> >> >> > liberal,
> >> >> > Some
> >> >> > of those on the far right want to do the same.
> >> >> > Roger
> >> >> > -----Original message-----
> >> >> > From: "Gier, Nicholas" NGIER at uidaho.edu
> >> >> > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:10:48 -0800
> >> >> > To: "Kenneth Marcy" kmmos1 at verizon.net,  vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Greetings Visionaries:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I'm on a futile crusade to bring everyone back to the original 
> >> >> >> meaning
> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> the word "liberal," from the Latin word "liberalis," meaning
> >> >> >> "pertaining
> >> >> >> to a free person," the "liberi" as opposed to the "servi," the 
> >> >> >> "serfs"
> >> >> >> who were not free.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The genius of the American and French Revolutions was the 
> >> >> >> declaration
> >> >> >> that we are all free with inalienable rights to life, liberty, and 
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> pursuit of happiness. The "servi" no longer exist.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> For more read my column "We Are All Liberals--Well, Almost All."
> >> >> >> (www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/liberalism.htm) The exceptions are 
> >> >> >> people
> >> >> >> such as Doug Wilson and his sordid gang of Paleo-Conservatives.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> May you all have a very Liberal Thanksgiving,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Nick Gier
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com on behalf of Kenneth Marcy
> >> >> >> Sent: Wed 11/25/2009 9:27 AM
> >> >> >> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On Tuesday 24 November 2009 18:43:03 John Pool wrote:
> >> >> >> > I'm confused. Just what *is* a liberal agenda? Is it something 
> >> >> >> > that
> >> >> >> > all liberals have to agree on, or just some? Does it have to be a
> >> >> >> > majority, or can it be less than that? What happens if a moderate
> >> >> >> > or centrist seeks the same end? Does that make her/him a liberal
> >> >> >> > automatically? I'd like some clarification here.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> When the phrase "liberal agenda" is used, usually it is a 
> >> >> >> pejorative
> >> >> >> reference by someone talking against whatever is perceived to be
> >> >> >> undesirable about the matters to which they refer. The phrase has
> >> >> >> developed into a shorthand ad hominem argument against whatever
> >> >> >> policy the (conservative) speaker opposes.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Liberal is a relative term that needs a reference points in time 
> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >> place, culture and subject, and policy status quo vis-à-vis someone
> >> >> >> observing. To use it without such referents may be diversionary and
> >> >> >> counterproductive toward effective discussion, which may be the
> >> >> >> desired effect.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I suspect actual liberals just dispense with using the term in 
> >> >> >> favor
> >> >> >> of something more specific, such as legislative agenda or party
> >> >> >> platform. On the other hand, in the case of Thanksgiving, a 
> >> >> >> well-set
> >> >> >> table and congenial guests make the agenda and the event the same.
> >> >> >> Happy Holiday.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Ken
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> =======================================================
> >> >> >>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> >> >>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> >> >>                http://www.fsr.net
> >> >> >>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> >> >> =======================================================
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > =======================================================
> >> >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> >> >               http://www.fsr.net
> >> >> >          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> >> > =======================================================
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> > 
> 
> 



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