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Aha, no difference in print quality but huge difference in other qualities. I recently learned that hemp is 70% cellulose compared to wood at only 30%. This explains why paper from wood must be chemically teated with poisons (toulene, bleach, etc.) and is still weaker and shorter lived paper than hemp. DOW chemicals had a say in lobbying for propagandizing hemp, alongside William Randolf Hurst who owned 20mil. acres of trees and the world's largest newspaper.<BR><BR>Don<BR> <BR>> Message: 3<BR>> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 11:18:32 -0800 (PST)<BR>> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen@moscow.com><BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?<BR>> To: "lfalen" <lfalen@turbonet.com><BR>> Cc: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> Message-ID: <f5873f1184aa6479a097c865c696eb0b.squirrel@secure.fsr.com><BR>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1<BR>> <BR>> For special flyers or posters (i.e. announcement of "The First Annual<BR>> Intolerista Wingding" earlier this year) I use hemp paper purchased from<BR>> Canada.<BR>> <BR>> Believe it or not, there is a discernible difference in print quality<BR>> between Canadian hemp paper and American bond paper.<BR>> <BR>> Tom Hansen<BR>> Moscow, Idaho<BR>> <BR>> > Andy<BR>> > You make some good points. I don't like most subsidies either and I favor<BR>> > making Industrial Hemp legal.<BR>> > Roger<BR>> > -----Original message-----<BR>> > From: "Andy Boyd" moscowrecycling@turbonet.com<BR>> > Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:18:38 -0800<BR>> > To: "lfalen" lfalen@turbonet.com, "Gier, Nicholas" NGIER@uidaho.edu,<BR>> > "Kenneth Marcy" kmmos1@verizon.net, vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?<BR>> ><BR>> >> Roger,<BR>> >> It may seem ridiculous but everyone says 'free market' and it's a fraud.<BR>> >> The reason one would aspire to a free market is because it would<BR>> >> regulate<BR>> >> itself regarding supply and demand. Take the paper industry,<BR>> >> economically,<BR>> >> paper is cheaper to make from hemp but we place regulations (industrial<BR>> >> hemp<BR>> >> is illegal) and supply subsidies to these corporations to keep the price<BR>> >> of<BR>> >> paper from wood cheaper than hemp that is produced legally in other<BR>> >> countries. This is one example of thousands. Certainly anyone is<BR>> >> allowed<BR>> >> to engage in a business of ones choosing but depending on the business<BR>> >> the<BR>> >> cards are not close to fair or free. The farmer that gets fined by<BR>> >> Monsanto<BR>> >> when a genetically modified plant shows up in their field even though<BR>> >> they<BR>> >> don't use Monsanto GMO products is another case and point. The market<BR>> >> and<BR>> >> regulators don't treat them fairly. A free market could actually help<BR>> >> some<BR>> >> of our environmental 'situations'. If we in the United States had to pay<BR>> >> a<BR>> >> true market value for food, wood or petroleum products for example, many<BR>> >> of<BR>> >> the alternative products out 'there' would end up being the same price<BR>> >> or<BR>> >> cheaper, altering our purchasing habits. Ahh, so much to criticize.<BR>> >> And yes, truth in advertising would be great but even if you try to<BR>> >> prosecute these inaccuracies, the cards are stacked against the average<BR>> >> citizen.<BR>> >> that's enought for me today.<BR>> >> Andy Boyd<BR>> >> Manager/Education Coordinator<BR>> >> Moscow Recycling<BR>> >> 208 882 0590<BR>> >> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> >> From: "lfalen" <lfalen@turbonet.com><BR>> >> To: "Andy Boyd" <moscowrecycling@turbonet.com>; "Gier, Nicholas"<BR>> >> <NGIER@uidaho.edu>; "Kenneth Marcy" <kmmos1@verizon.net>;<BR>> >> <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:27 PM<BR>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >> > Andy<BR>> >> > You are being a little ridiculous. You should know what I ment. It is<BR>> >> the<BR>> >> > right t engage in a business of your choosing, To make a profit and to<BR>> >> go<BR>> >> > broke. The government does not need to make a profit and is therefore<BR>> >> > inefficient. Some regulation is needed, a totally open market with no<BR>> >> > holds bared would not protect the citizenry from fraud or other<BR>> >> abuses.<BR>> >> > On the whole though there are to many regulations. In some cases ther<BR>> >> > should be more. There should be more regulation on truth in<BR>> >> advertising in<BR>> >> > the health food supplement industry. Some Herbal supplements are very<BR>> >> > helpful, some are worthless and some are down right dangerous.<BR>> >> > Roger<BR>> >> > -----Original message-----<BR>> >> > From: "Andy Boyd" moscowrecycling@turbonet.com<BR>> >> > Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 13:08:07 -0800<BR>> >> > To: "lfalen" lfalen@turbonet.com, "Gier, Nicholas" NGIER@uidaho.edu,<BR>> >> > "Kenneth Marcy" kmmos1@verizon.net, vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?<BR>> >> ><BR>> >> >> I have yet to see this 'free market" to which you refer. Might you<BR>> >> give<BR>> >> >> an<BR>> >> >> example where markets are free?<BR>> >> >> Andy Boyd<BR>> >> >> Manager/Education Coordinator<BR>> >> >> Moscow Recycling<BR>> >> >> 208 882 0590<BR>> >> >> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> >> >> From: "lfalen" <lfalen@turbonet.com><BR>> >> >> To: "Andy Boyd" <moscowrecycling@turbonet.com>; "Gier, Nicholas"<BR>> >> >> <NGIER@uidaho.edu>; "Kenneth Marcy" <kmmos1@verizon.net>;<BR>> >> >> <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> >> >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 12:00 PM<BR>> >> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> > No. Capitalism as embodied in the free market system allows one to<BR>> >> >> > freely<BR>> >> >> > engage in any legal business they see fit. The role of government<BR>> >> >> > should<BR>> >> >> > be see that businesses do not deceive the public or engage in<BR>> >> unfair<BR>> >> >> > business practices.<BR>> >> >> > Roger<BR>> >> >> > -----Original message-----<BR>> >> >> > From: "Andy Boyd" moscowrecycling@turbonet.com<BR>> >> >> > Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:37:26 -0800<BR>> >> >> > To: "lfalen" lfalen@turbonet.com, "Gier, Nicholas"<BR>> >> NGIER@uidaho.edu,<BR>> >> >> > "Kenneth Marcy" kmmos1@verizon.net, vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> >> Couldn't you argue that capitalism is a form of behavior control,<BR>> >> >> >> turning<BR>> >> >> >> us<BR>> >> >> >> all into good little consumers, all occuring in the last 50 years?<BR>> >> >> >> Andy Boyd<BR>> >> >> >> Manager/Education Coordinator<BR>> >> >> >> Moscow Recycling<BR>> >> >> >> 208 882 0590<BR>> >> >> >> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> >> >> >> From: "lfalen" <lfalen@turbonet.com><BR>> >> >> >> To: "Gier, Nicholas" <NGIER@uidaho.edu>; "Kenneth Marcy"<BR>> >> >> >> <kmmos1@verizon.net>; <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> >> >> >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:49 AM<BR>> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?<BR>> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> > Nick<BR>> >> >> >> > I think that your definition is correct and would be in line<BR>> >> with<BR>> >> >> >> > that<BR>> >> >> >> > of<BR>> >> >> >> > John Stuart Mill. To be liberal should mean that one allows for<BR>> >> the<BR>> >> >> >> > behavior of others to be different from their own, even though<BR>> >> they<BR>> >> >> >> > may<BR>> >> >> >> > not like it. This is why I use the term leftist to identify<BR>> >> those<BR>> >> >> >> > who<BR>> >> >> >> > want<BR>> >> >> >> > the state to control of our behavior. They are anything but<BR>> >> >> >> > liberal,<BR>> >> >> >> > Some<BR>> >> >> >> > of those on the far right want to do the same.<BR>> >> >> >> > Roger<BR>> >> >> >> > -----Original message-----<BR>> >> >> >> > From: "Gier, Nicholas" NGIER@uidaho.edu<BR>> >> >> >> > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:10:48 -0800<BR>> >> >> >> > To: "Kenneth Marcy" kmmos1@verizon.net, vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?<BR>> >> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> >> >> Greetings Visionaries:<BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >> I'm on a futile crusade to bring everyone back to the original<BR>> >> >> >> >> meaning<BR>> >> >> >> >> of<BR>> >> >> >> >> the word "liberal," from the Latin word "liberalis," meaning<BR>> >> >> >> >> "pertaining<BR>> >> >> >> >> to a free person," the "liberi" as opposed to the "servi," the<BR>> >> >> >> >> "serfs"<BR>> >> >> >> >> who were not free.<BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >> The genius of the American and French Revolutions was the<BR>> >> >> >> >> declaration<BR>> >> >> >> >> that we are all free with inalienable rights to life, liberty,<BR>> >> and<BR>> >> >> >> >> the<BR>> >> >> >> >> pursuit of happiness. The "servi" no longer exist.<BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >> For more read my column "We Are All Liberals--Well, Almost<BR>> >> All."<BR>> >> >> >> >> (www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/liberalism.htm) The exceptions are<BR>> >> >> >> >> people<BR>> >> >> >> >> such as Doug Wilson and his sordid gang of Paleo-Conservatives.<BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >> May you all have a very Liberal Thanksgiving,<BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >> Nick Gier<BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message-----<BR>> >> >> >> >> From: vision2020-bounces@moscow.com on behalf of Kenneth Marcy<BR>> >> >> >> >> Sent: Wed 11/25/2009 9:27 AM<BR>> >> >> >> >> To: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Liberal Agenda?<BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >> On Tuesday 24 November 2009 18:43:03 John Pool wrote:<BR>> >> >> >> >> > I'm confused. Just what *is* a liberal agenda? Is it<BR>> >> something<BR>> >> >> >> >> > that<BR>> >> >> >> >> > all liberals have to agree on, or just some? Does it have to<BR>> >> be a<BR>> >> >> >> >> > majority, or can it be less than that? What happens if a<BR>> >> moderate<BR>> >> >> >> >> > or centrist seeks the same end? Does that make her/him a<BR>> >> liberal<BR>> >> >> >> >> > automatically? I'd like some clarification here.<BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >> When the phrase "liberal agenda" is used, usually it is a<BR>> >> >> >> >> pejorative<BR>> >> >> >> >> reference by someone talking against whatever is perceived to<BR>> >> be<BR>> >> >> >> >> undesirable about the matters to which they refer. The phrase<BR>> >> has<BR>> >> >> >> >> developed into a shorthand ad hominem argument against whatever<BR>> >> >> >> >> policy the (conservative) speaker opposes.<BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >> Liberal is a relative term that needs a reference points in<BR>> >> time<BR>> >> >> >> >> and<BR>> >> >> >> >> place, culture and subject, and policy status quo vis-??-vis<BR>> >> someone<BR>> >> >> >> >> observing. To use it without such referents may be diversionary<BR>> >> and<BR>> >> >> >> >> counterproductive toward effective discussion, which may be the<BR>> >> >> >> >> desired effect.<BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >> I suspect actual liberals just dispense with using the term in<BR>> >> >> >> >> favor<BR>> >> >> >> >> of something more specific, such as legislative agenda or party<BR>> >> >> >> >> platform. On the other hand, in the case of Thanksgiving, a<BR>> >> >> >> >> well-set<BR>> >> >> >> >> table and congenial guests make the agenda and the event the<BR>> >> same.<BR>> >> >> >> >> Happy Holiday.<BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >> Ken<BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >> =======================================================<BR>> >> >> >> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> >> >> >> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >> >> >> >> http://www.fsr.net<BR>> >> >> >> >> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> >> >> >> =======================================================<BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> >> > =======================================================<BR>> >> >> >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> >> >> >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >> >> >> > http://www.fsr.net<BR>> >> >> >> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> >> >> > =======================================================<BR>> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> ><BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> ><BR>> > =======================================================<BR>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> > http://www.fsr.net<BR>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> > =======================================================<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change<BR>> and the Realist adjusts his sails."<BR>> <BR>> - Unknown<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ------------------------------<BR>> <BR>> =======================================================<BR>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>> http://www.fsr.net <BR>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> =======================================================<BR>> <BR>> End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 42, Issue 8<BR>> *****************************************<BR><BR> <br /><hr />Windows LiveT Hotmail is faster and more secure than ever. <a href='http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_1:092009' target='_new'>Learn more.</a></body>
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