[Vision2020] Say What? Everyone Deserves Death.

[Ted Moffett]

Donovan Arnold, or whoever, wrote:

http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2008-May/053886.html

I think everyone deserves death Joe. As everyone is a sinner.  But only
through the grace of God and the sacrifice of Jesus do we live.
--------------
This statement represents the kind of thinking that makes religious cults
dangerous, no matter what religion is supporting this extremism.
--------------
Paul wrote:

http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2008-May/053844.html

I just figure that it doesn't matter much if Donovan is one person, a
committee, multiple personalities, a hive mind, a front for a
corporation, a demon host, an AI, or a couple of local church members.
If he says something idiotic, it's still idiotic and if he makes a good
point it's still a good point.
------------------
Paul, your approach to "Donovan's" posts apparently is tolerant of those who
antagonize and provoke, while perhaps hiding who they are on Vision2020.  It
does matter if Vision2020 participants are misrepresenting who they are, or
allow others to hijack their identity.  It creates a climate on the
list that does not encourage honest forthright participation by sincere
players, and undermines fact and logic based discussion, when the bogus (or
even real)  identity distorts what people assert, on a routine basis,
changes their point of view, seemingly at random, deliberately to create
confusion, it appears, and indulges in juvenile personal attacks, wasting
posting space with this nonsense.  Those posting under Donovan's name, or
even if Donovan is the author of all this confusion, represents an effort to
obfuscate honest debate and dialog, to poison Vision2020, in my opinion.

Those who misrepresent who they are on Vision2020, or let their e-mail
account be hijacked by others, should be ignored, in most cases, even if
they make a good point.

Below is an "Off List" e-mail on this subject that I reconsidered regarding
posting it to the list:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2008 12:29 AM
Subject: Off List: Re: [Vision2020] The Fetus is Not a Baby and is not a
Person
To: deb <debismith at moscow.com>

Off List

Deb-

Exactly.

Yet, Keely, Joe C., Chas, et. al. must know this, yet they keep engaging
with "Donovan" in what seem to me to be pointless dialog.  Is this to find a
focal point for debate, provide entertainment to keep Vision2020 engaging
(yellow journalism sells), offer Donovan their "help?"

Donovan sometimes makes good points.  I have occasionally responded to his
posts.  But this recent nonsense, as sometimes in the past, is over the
top.  I guess if it is true that others are posting under Donovan's name,
then the responses are aimed at whoever they are.  Why give the ghost
writer reinforcement by responding?  This is perhaps an encouragement for
"bad" list serve behavior.  Ghost writers should be ignored, I think, if it
is known this is occurring.  Some might say however, that insults and
nonsense on the list should be responded to, even if from idiots or ghost
writers, to now allow it to pass unchallenged.

Sometimes it seems Donovan is deliberately making himself too easy a target,
to provoke responses.

I don't want to post as Vision2020 psychiatrist, like some do.  This I find
laughable and offensive, given that no responsible professional psychiatrist
would do therapy on a public list serve, given that this could do real harm
to a truly pathological personality.  And as far as I know, none of those
responding to Donovan are psychologists or psychiatrists.  Talk about
needing to stop the "unqualified pronouncements" as Chas phrased it.  He
should not psychoanalyse Donovan on Vision2020, as he has done, it seems to
me...

Anyway, your post expressed what I have been thinking, but did not post to
the list... Trying to moderate Vision2020 is like herding cats...

Ted

On 5/11/08, deb <debismith at moscow.com> wrote:

> Once again, the V is sucked into replies to the "Donovan" persona. Please,
> as I have pleaded with all my friends on the V many times over the past 4
> years, BOZO filter this guy. Stop replying, stop giving the lunatic
> credance, and stop letting him manage you all into being angry at someone
> who only deserves our pity...
> Debi R-S
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> To: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>; "Donovan Arnold"
> <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; "Joe Campbell" <joekc at adelphia.net>;
> "Vision
> 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>; "Ralph Nielsen" <nielsen at uidaho.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 3:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The Fetus is Not a Baby and is not a Person
>
>
> > "I never first strike.  But I will attack back with full force."
> > - Donovan J. Arnold (or is it Doudalchri Wilcourwit?) on May 11, 2008
> >
> > The question then becomes . . . What would God do in retribution to you
> > and your sinful attitude toward your fellow man, Arnold?
> >
> > Perhaps . . .
> >
> > "God Will F*ck You Up"
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA-pWKRyyG8
> >
> > I just know this will lift the lid off a few well stirred stink pots.
> >
> > Keep them cards and letters coming.
> >
> > Tom Hansen
> > Moscow,
> > Idaho
> >
> >
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