[Vision2020] 935 False Statements Made Before War

Mon Jan 28 12:56:35 PST 2008

When those who follow Christ cease committing acts of violence and injustice themselves, they can (we can) cast the first stone.  Until that time, we address injustice with prayer, love, and the clear teaching of our Savior.

Keely

> To: vision2020 at mail-gw.fsr.net
> From: pkraut at moscow.com
> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:12:35 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 935 False Statements Made Before War
> 
> So the raping, shredding starving was OK with you and you do not think 
> that injustice should be addressed by those who follow Christ?
> interesting!
> 
> > 
> > Groupthink is truly a dangerous thing, stoked as it is by those with the
> lo> udest voices and stronger hands.  The gods of this world refuse to be
> quiet> ed and bound, and the horror compounds when "religious" people 
> provide
> them>  with amplifiers and weapons, believing they have somehow baptized 
> them
> int> o The Cause when, in reality, they themselves have been conscripted 
> into
> wa> r against the very things God came to deliver us from.  
> > 
> > I wonder what would happen if those who follow the Prince of Peace -- 
> what
> > three or four billion people around the world call Jesus Christ -- in
> seeki> ng peace, living in peace, working for peace, and expecting peace 
> to be
> the>  grid through which our leaders make decisions about our world and 
> our
> posi> tion in it.  I wonder how it is that we as Christian individuals 
> give
> assen> t to the whole idea of "living at peace" -- we know it's good to 
> be kind
> to>  the rude store clerk, and we applaud those who meet ugly words with 
> humor
> > or kindness -- and yet we seemingly have little concern that the 
> corporate
> > Body or the leaders of our government do the same.  I don't read in
> Scriptu> re that the idea of reflection, prudence humility and love -- 
> such a
> femini> ne, sentimental word! -- in response to provocation is simply for
> individua> ls, not for the body politic.  And it's a sinful world; those 
> who don't
> rev> ere this Prince of Peace probably won't be as determined to live 
> peaceably
> > as His disciples would, we assume with smug, self-satisfied judgment  --
> an> d then we rush to join them.  
> > 
> > His disciples don't obey Jesus on this.  Not individually, not
> corporately,>  not "professionally" in the public square or privately at 
> home.  Further,
> > no other disciples dare rebuke them; the expectation that THIS 
> particular
> e> mphasis of Christ's teachings actually be practiced seems quaint, 
> archaic,
> > or imprudent beyond what their Author seemingly could have known.  We 
> who
> a> re often rightly condemned as lockstep fundamentalists practice a very
> pecu> liar form of theological liberalism when we not only dismiss these 
> words
> of>  Christ, but expect our "Godly" leaders to do the same.  Worse even 
> is the
> > contempt we heap on those who are committed, because of Christ, to 
> obeying
> > him on this issue:  they seem so out of touch, so naive, so silly, 
> so . .
> >  un-American.  We who are referred to in Scripture as aliens and
> strangers,>  citizens of a heavenly place and mere sojourners on this 
> one, have lain
> ba> ck and spread 'em for the whorish idolatry of blind nationalism,
> patriotism> , and enthusiasm for power.  This is not to say that there is 
> never a time
> > to take up arms, but the reality of that ought to be what causes us to
> shri> nk back in horror at the idea of carelessly, mindlessly, responding 
> in
> viol> ence -- or encouraging our young men and women to.   Elders are 
> supposed
> to>  be examples of honor and integrity; instead, we create situations 
> that
> req> uire killing and result in the same, and calling it "righteous" may 
> well
> at> tract our young people to the cause -- just as it increases our own
> culpabi> lity.  If we really believed the words of Christ in the Gospels, 
> we
> wouldn'> t think that medals on their chests in any way mitigate the 
> millstones
> arou> nd our own necks.
> > 
> > I'm glad Libertarians are against the war, if somehow it made a
> difference,>  but to condemn war not because of its attendant evils but, 
> instead,
> becaus> e it's an inefficient entanglement that violates isolationist, 
> free-market
> > principles is repugnant.  It's like condemning rape not because it
> violates>  women, but because it constitutes adultery under a strict and 
> pointless
> in> terpretation of the Seventh Commandment instead.   A nation not at war
> beca> use it doesn't give a collective damn is not a nation in any way "at
> peace,> " and yet worse is the bloodshed applauded by those who follow 
> the One who
> > shed His own blood in condemnation of the mindless carnage wrought in a
> fal> len world.  I pray for a committed, united Christian war against 
> violence,
> > against poverty, against injustice everywhere.  That kind of "stirring 
> up
> o> f the masses" would go such a long way toward eliminating the war cries
> and>  rallies from the pews that feed the beast of destruction and 
> savagery.
> > 
> > Keely
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 21:41:34 -0800
> > From: starbliss at gmail.com
> > To: kjajmix1 at msn.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 935 False Statements Made Before War
> > CC: ophite at gmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> > 
> > keely et. al.
> >  
> > The truth can hurt, so maybe there is some "harm," when the medicine of
> fac> ts is a disquieting treatment.
> >  
> > We tried to head off the impending disasters of the Bush administration,
> wi> th the J20 Coalition efforts in Seattle on Jan. 20, 2001, to protest 
> the
> Bu> sh administration, on Bush's inauguration day.  Around 5000 protested 
> in
> Se> attle, taking over downtown streets from sidewalk to sidewalk, in a
> protest> /activism event that was an all day community effort, with a 
> stage set up
> f> or speeches, theater and music, from many organizations.  
> > 
> >  
> > I put up flyers in the Moscow/Pullman and Spokane areas to advertise 
> this
> e> vent, and attended.  I expected protest related problems, and was 
> prepared
> > to be arrested.  But amazingly, the police who monitored the event were
> rat> her low key, and the city cooperated with the protest in allowing 
> city
> stre> ets to be closed to traffic.  Still, I expected someone to throw a 
> rock
> thr> ough a window, or attack someone, after which all hell can break 
> loose,
> aft> er which the peaceful can get caught up in the ensuing crackdown.  
> But
> noth> ing like this happened.  
> > 
> >  
> > One inspiring moment was when we linked arms surrounding the entire
> Seattle>  Federal building, a large urban structure, chanting various 
> activist
> sloga> ns.  Cameras were firing left and right, some from the press, or 
> for
> privat> e use, but certainly some from the FBI. 
> > 
> >  
> > I look back on this event, and feel an sense of futility.  What good did
> it>  do?  The nation was so caught up in the emotion of events after 9/11 
> that
> > reason, fact and compassion took a back seat to propaganda, revenge and
> fea> r.
> > 
> >  
> > Here's a press release on the J20 Coalition event held in Seattle on 
> Jan.
> 2> 0, 2001:
> >  
> > THOUSANDS EXPECTED AT SEATTLE INAUGURATION DAY
> > PROTESTS ON JANUARY 20TH
> > 
> > The King County Labor Council(membership 130,000) and
> > the MLK Celebration March Committee have endorsed
> > demonstrations in Seattle on January 20th to coincide
> > 
> > with national protests against the inauguration of
> > George W. Bush as U.S. President.
> > 
> > A group called the "January 20th Coalition" has called
> > for endorsements from labor unions, civil rights
> > groups, environmental groups, faith organizations and
> > 
> > women's groups.
> > 
> > The protests will begin on January 19th with a
> > candlelight vigil for those citizens whose votes were
> > not counted. This event will start at 5 PM at the
> > Courthouse at 5th and Madison in downtown Seattle.
> > 
> > 
> > On January 20th a demonstration is planned for
> > Westlake Center at 1 PM. Following this event, a march
> > "March For Democracy" will move to the Federal
> > Building at 3 PM.
> > 
> > In the evening, a forum will be held at the Labor
> > 
> > Temple (1st and Clay) with music and speakers
> > addressing the election results and complaints of
> > civil rights violations in Florida and other states.
> > Speakers will include King County Council member Larry
> > Gossett, KIRO radio talkshow host Mike Webb, and
> > 
> > attorneys from the American Civil Liberties Union.
> > -------------------------------------------
> > Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett
> >  
> > 
> > _________________________________________________________________
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