[Vision2020] God's problem

[Sue Hovey]

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Donovan Arnold 
  To: Chasuk 
  Cc: Vision 2020 ; Ralph Nielsen 
  Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 7:58 PM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] God's problem


  Donovan wrote: 
  Now, I challenge you to find me at least two example of where humans suffer on mass, as a result of God, not because of human actions or in-actions? 

  Best Regards,

  Donovan

  Donovan, the Old Testament is replete with God's admonition to the Israelites to smite here and there, even down to the babies in their cribs and animals in the field.  Of course, it doesn't fit your paradigm if the OT is a myth, but I offer it for you to ponder.  And I always thought it was a bit petty of God to let Satan tempt Job.  I think Job's wife had some good advice for him, but had he taken it this tale probably would have been edited out of the final edition. 

  Sue 

  Sue 


  Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com> wrote:
    On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Donovan Arnold
    wrote:

    > Every bit of suffering by humans is caused by humans, without exception.

    There are legion tsunami, hurricane, earthquake, flood, fire, and
    drought victims who might disagree with you. Ditto all of the victims
    of malaria, pneumonia, tuberculosis, cancer, encephalitis, parasitic
    infection, and birth defects. I could make the list much longer, but
    I'm sure you get the idea.


    > God does not prevent humans from causing other humans from suffering because he
    > gave us freewill.

    So, I give my kids a gift that is so dangerous they will
    unquestionably kill and maim themselves, and others, with it. This
    suffering will be also be visited upon their children, and their
    children's children, etc., and I know it when I give them this gift.

    What court wouldn't convict me?

    I'm sidestepping the issue of whether free will exists, and running
    with your ball.

    If we had not been gifted with free will, we certainly wouldn't have
    missed it. I'm sure that my toddlers would have been fascinated by
    razor blades, but I wisely decided against razor blades as a gift.
    And do you know what? They didn't complain, not even once. We are
    toddlers -- possibly infants -- before any putative God, so the
    comparison is apt.

    Now consider how well God engineered pain. I'll admit that pain is a
    pretty nifty idea, arguably even a necessity. Think how badly we
    might injure or disfigure ourselves if it weren't for pain causing us
    to pull our hand out of the fire. But did he really need to invent
    phantom limb pain? Or pain that continues for years and years, even
    after its purpose has been served? And did he have to make it so
    intense? A burn wouldn't have to hurt half as much and I would still
    quickly pull my hand out of the fire.

    Bravo, God.

    Can we dispense with the piety now?





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  =======================================================
   List services made available by First Step Internet, 
   serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
                 http://www.fsr.net                       
            mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
  =======================================================
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20080223/113041c2/attachment.html