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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=chasuk@gmail.com
href="mailto:chasuk@gmail.com">Chasuk</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=Vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> ; <A
title=nielsen@uidaho.edu href="mailto:nielsen@uidaho.edu">Ralph Nielsen</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 21, 2008 7:58
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] God's
problem</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Donovan wrote: </DIV>
<DIV>Now, I challenge you to find me at least two example of where humans
suffer on mass, as a result of God, not because of human actions or
in-actions? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Best Regards,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Donovan</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Donovan, the Old Testament is replete with God's
admonition to the Israelites to smite here and there, even down to the babies
in their cribs and animals in the field. Of course, it doesn't fit your
paradigm if the OT is a myth, but I offer it for you to ponder. And I
always thought it was a bit petty of God to let Satan tempt Job. I think
Job's wife had some good advice for him, but had he taken it this tale
probably would have been edited out of the final edition. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sue </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sue </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><B><I>Chasuk <chasuk@gmail.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">On
Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Donovan
Arnold<BR><DONOVANJARNOLD2005@YAHOO.COM>wrote:<BR><BR>> Every bit of
suffering by humans is caused by humans, without exception.<BR><BR>There are
legion tsunami, hurricane, earthquake, flood, fire, and<BR>drought victims
who might disagree with you. Ditto all of the victims<BR>of malaria,
pneumonia, tuberculosis, cancer, encephalitis, parasitic<BR>infection, and
birth defects. I could make the list much longer, but<BR>I'm sure you get
the idea.<BR><BR><BR>> God does not prevent humans from causing other
humans from suffering because he<BR>> gave us freewill.<BR><BR>So, I give
my kids a gift that is so dangerous they will<BR>unquestionably kill and
maim themselves, and others, with it. This<BR>suffering will be also be
visited upon their children, and their<BR>children's children, etc., and I
know it when I give them this gift.<BR><BR>What court wouldn't convict
me?<BR><BR>I'm sidestepping the issue of whether free will exists, and
running<BR>with your ball.<BR><BR>If we had not been gifted with free will,
we certainly wouldn't have<BR>missed it. I'm sure that my toddlers would
have been fascinated by<BR>razor blades, but I wisely decided against razor
blades as a gift.<BR>And do you know what? They didn't complain, not even
once. We are<BR>toddlers -- possibly infants -- before any putative God, so
the<BR>comparison is apt.<BR><BR>Now consider how well God engineered pain.
I'll admit that pain is a<BR>pretty nifty idea, arguably even a necessity.
Think how badly we<BR>might injure or disfigure ourselves if it weren't for
pain causing us<BR>to pull our hand out of the fire. But did he really need
to invent<BR>phantom limb pain? Or pain that continues for years and years,
even<BR>after its purpose has been served? And did he have to make it
so<BR>intense? A burn wouldn't have to hurt half as much and I would
still<BR>quickly pull my hand out of the fire.<BR><BR>Bravo, God.<BR><BR>Can
we dispense with the piety now?<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
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