[Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered

keely emerinemix kjajmix1 at msn.com
Sat Sep 22 12:21:04 PDT 2007

Gary, free speech gives everyone "unlimited license to act the fool;"  it's when foolishness becomes actually dangerous -- you know, yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater -- that it is rightly restricted.   I suspect you're aware of that, but partisanship makes it easier to momentarily forget that while making, in some vague way, a political statement.


From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:56:42 -0700
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered

I understand perfectly well that you're unhappy 
with Theresa's boy
and I'm skeptical about your assertion. Would you 
have extended your argument to the Yippies in Chicago in '68? Violence as speech 
in a political setting. I do not believe that the constitution gives a person 
unlimited license to act the fool as long as what they say (or do) can in some 
vague way be construed as a political statement.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:49 
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student 

> Wrong.  I absolutely would make the identical argument.  
I'm talking about 
> the Constitution, not my own preferences.  And 
isince you missed it, most of 
> my condemnation here is for the person I 
voted for in the last election, not 
> Bush.
>>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>>To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>>CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student 
>>Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:51:43 
>>I very much doubt that you would be making the same 
argument if the guy was 
>>a raving Bush supporter who refused to stand 
down after his time was up and 
>>only wanted to hold forth, not ask a 
specific question.
>>----- Original Message 
----- From: "Sunil Ramalingam" 
>><sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>>Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 6:25 
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student 
possibility that the student was looking to 'shake things up' is, 
>>>true, irrelevant.  He was at a political forum engaging 
in political 
>>>  That's protected by 
the First Amendment.  None of us have to like it; 

>>>protected speech.  I wouldn't say there 
was a 'conspiracy' to shut his 
>>>down, but 
someone made the wrong decision to shut down what was clearly 
>>>dialog between him and Kerry.
won't defend the decision to taser him.  I think it's abominable.  
>>>shouldn't have been touching him, let alone choosing between 
options such 
>>>electrocuting him or dislocating 
his shoulder or breaking his wrist.  They
>>>were state actors 
shutting down free speech, and they shouldn't have been
anything of the sort.  They should have allowed him to exercise 
>>>It would be different 
if he showed up and did this in your living room; 

>>>this was a political event.  There are 
few places where political speech 
appropriate than in this setting.
>>>You're right 
that Kerry didn't initiate anything.  Instead of trying to 

>>>this, he did nothing but drone on.  He 
could have told the cops there was 
>>>need for 
their action.  He could have reminded them that this is 
>>>and that citizens are allowed to question politicians, 
and that 
>>>answer to the People.  
What a chance to show what free speech means!  But
he showed once again his innate ability to miss an 
>>>oddly enough, that was the thesis of one of the 
Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
>>>>To: Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
>>>>CC: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>,  

>>>>vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>Subject: Re: 
[Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
>>>>Date: Fri, 21 Sep 
2007 17:34:15 -0700
>>>>I think there are a 
couple of things going on here.
>>>>The first 
was a decision by the police to remove him from the 
>>>>and from the vicinity.  The second was to 
taser him when they did.  I'm
>>>>unsure about the first 
decision.  I have little pity for him, because I
he was looking for an avenue to "shake things up".  That's just 
>>>>opinion.  I also don't think he was removed from the 
podium because of 
>>>>specific thing he 
said.  I don't think he was removed because he 
>>>>upsetting Kerry, either.  I think he was removed 
because he was 
>>>>as someone who 
disrupts public events.  I would rather that they let 
>>>>finish his question.  However, I don't think he 
wanted to be allowed to
>>>>finish his question, I think he 
wanted to make a scene.  I don't see a
>>>>conspiracy to 
shut this man's views down.  If he had asked them calmly 

>>>>politely, he would probably have been 
>>>>The decision to taser him when they 
did I can somewhat agree with.  They
>>>>were removing him 
from the room, and he would not calm down and submit to
action.  When they had him on the ground, presumably trying to 
>>>>cuffs on him, he wouldn't stop shouting and wouldn't 
cooperate.  So they
>>>>tasered him, after warning him they 
were going to taser him several 
order to shake him up long enough to get control of him.  I think 
>>>>chose to do that rather than to do something more 
damaging, such as
>>>>dislocating a shoulder or breaking a 
wrist.  I say that I can "somewhat"
>>>>agree with the 
decision because I'm not an expert in restraining 
>>>>Perhaps they had other less headline-making options 
at their disposal.
>>>>This is all my opinion 
from watching one of the videos on youtube that
>>>>shows the 
arrest, and from reading comments on various websites on 
>>>>guy's history.
also think this had nothing to do with Kerry.  He was willing to 
>>>>the questions, and he didn't initiate 
Moffett wrote:
>>>>>Sunil et. 
>>>>>  Sorry, I had not read the story at the 
"Counterpunch" link you 

>>>>>And given some of the 
responses to this thread, I wonder how many others
the story.  I found out what the student was questioning Kerry 

>>>>>(the Palast book and the 
"stolen" election of 2004, etc.) from 
>>>>>sources.  The more I find out about what 
happened in this incident, the
>>>>>more disturbing the police 
response appears.  As the "Counterpunch" 

>>>>>headline questions, "Why 
did Senator John Kerry stand idly by?"  I 

>>>>>if Kerry has issued any 
public responses to the coverage of this story 

>>>>>  Meyer (the tasered student) asked very good 
questions that need to be
>>>>>asked over and 
>>>>>  The questions asked were, according to the 
"Counterpunch" article:
>>>>>  At the conclusion of 
Kerry's speech, Andrew Meyer, a 21-year old
student was selected by Senator Kerry to ask a question. 

>>>>>held up a copy of BBC 
investigative reporter Greg Palast's book, 
>>>>>Madhouse, and asked if Kerry was aware that 
Palast's investigations
>>>>>determined that Kerry had 
actually won the election.  Why, Meyer asked,
Kerry conceded the election so quickly when there were so many 

>>>>>examples of vote 
fraud?  Why, Meyer, went on to ask, was Kerry refusing 

>>>>>consider Bush's impeachment 
when Bush was about to initiate another act 

>>>>>military aggression, this time 
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>>>serving the 
communities of the Palouse since 
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com

> List 
services made available by First Step Internet, 
> serving the 
communities of the Palouse since 1994.   


>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com

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