[Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
keely emerinemix
kjajmix1 at msn.com
Sat Sep 22 12:21:04 PDT 2007
Gary, free speech gives everyone "unlimited license to act the fool;" it's when foolishness becomes actually dangerous -- you know, yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater -- that it is rightly restricted. I suspect you're aware of that, but partisanship makes it easier to momentarily forget that while making, in some vague way, a political statement.
keely
From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:56:42 -0700
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
I understand perfectly well that you're unhappy
with Theresa's boy
and I'm skeptical about your assertion. Would you
have extended your argument to the Yippies in Chicago in '68? Violence as speech
in a political setting. I do not believe that the constitution gives a person
unlimited license to act the fool as long as what they say (or do) can in some
vague way be construed as a political statement.
g
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:49
AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student
tasered
> Wrong. I absolutely would make the identical argument.
I'm talking about
> the Constitution, not my own preferences. And
isince you missed it, most of
> my condemnation here is for the person I
voted for in the last election, not
> Bush.
>
>
Sunil
>
>
>>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>>To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>>CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student
tasered
>>Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:51:43
-0700
>>
>>I very much doubt that you would be making the same
argument if the guy was
>>a raving Bush supporter who refused to stand
down after his time was up and
>>only wanted to hold forth, not ask a
specific question.
>>
>>g
>>----- Original Message
----- From: "Sunil Ramalingam"
>><sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>>Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 6:25
PM
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student
tasered
>>
>>
>>>Paul,
>>>
>>>The
possibility that the student was looking to 'shake things up' is,
if
>>>true, irrelevant. He was at a political forum engaging
in political
>>>speech.
>>> That's protected by
the First Amendment. None of us have to like it;
>>>it's
>>>protected speech. I wouldn't say there
was a 'conspiracy' to shut his
>>>views
>>>down, but
someone made the wrong decision to shut down what was clearly
a
>>>dialog between him and Kerry.
>>>
>>>I
won't defend the decision to taser him. I think it's abominable.
They
>>>shouldn't have been touching him, let alone choosing between
options such
>>>as
>>>electrocuting him or dislocating
his shoulder or breaking his wrist. They
>>>were state actors
shutting down free speech, and they shouldn't have been
>>>doing
anything of the sort. They should have allowed him to exercise
his
>>>rights.
>>>
>>>It would be different
if he showed up and did this in your living room;
>>>but
>>>this was a political event. There are
few places where political speech
>>>is
>>>more
appropriate than in this setting.
>>>
>>>You're right
that Kerry didn't initiate anything. Instead of trying to
>>>stop
>>>this, he did nothing but drone on. He
could have told the cops there was
>>>no
>>>need for
their action. He could have reminded them that this is
America,
>>>and that citizens are allowed to question politicians,
and that
>>>politicians
>>>answer to the People.
What a chance to show what free speech means! But
>>>instead
he showed once again his innate ability to miss an
opportunity;
>>>oddly enough, that was the thesis of one of the
student's
questions.
>>>
>>>Sunil
>>>
>>>
>>>>From:
Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
>>>>To: Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
>>>>CC: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>,
>>>>vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
>>>>Date: Fri, 21 Sep
2007 17:34:15 -0700
>>>>
>>>>I think there are a
couple of things going on here.
>>>>
>>>>The first
was a decision by the police to remove him from the
microphone
>>>>and from the vicinity. The second was to
taser him when they did. I'm
>>>>unsure about the first
decision. I have little pity for him, because I
>>>>think
he was looking for an avenue to "shake things up". That's just
my
>>>>opinion. I also don't think he was removed from the
podium because of
>>>>any
>>>>specific thing he
said. I don't think he was removed because he
was
>>>>upsetting Kerry, either. I think he was removed
because he was
>>>>recognized
>>>>as someone who
disrupts public events. I would rather that they let
him
>>>>finish his question. However, I don't think he
wanted to be allowed to
>>>>finish his question, I think he
wanted to make a scene. I don't see a
>>>>conspiracy to
shut this man's views down. If he had asked them calmly
>>>>and
>>>>politely, he would probably have been
fine.
>>>>
>>>>The decision to taser him when they
did I can somewhat agree with. They
>>>>were removing him
from the room, and he would not calm down and submit to
>>>>that
action. When they had him on the ground, presumably trying to
get
>>>>cuffs on him, he wouldn't stop shouting and wouldn't
cooperate. So they
>>>>tasered him, after warning him they
were going to taser him several
>>>>times,
>>>>in
order to shake him up long enough to get control of him. I think
they
>>>>chose to do that rather than to do something more
damaging, such as
>>>>dislocating a shoulder or breaking a
wrist. I say that I can "somewhat"
>>>>agree with the
decision because I'm not an expert in restraining
someone.
>>>>Perhaps they had other less headline-making options
at their disposal.
>>>>
>>>>This is all my opinion
from watching one of the videos on youtube that
>>>>shows the
arrest, and from reading comments on various websites on
this
>>>>guy's history.
>>>>
>>>>I
also think this had nothing to do with Kerry. He was willing to
answer
>>>>the questions, and he didn't initiate
anything.
>>>>
>>>>Paul
>>>>
>>>>Ted
Moffett wrote:
>>>>>Sunil et.
al.
>>>>> Sorry, I had not read the story at the
"Counterpunch" link you
>>>>>offered.
>>>>>And given some of the
responses to this thread, I wonder how many others
>>>>>read
the story. I found out what the student was questioning Kerry
>>>>>about
>>>>>(the Palast book and the
"stolen" election of 2004, etc.) from
other
>>>>>sources. The more I find out about what
happened in this incident, the
>>>>>more disturbing the police
response appears. As the "Counterpunch"
>>>>>story
>>>>>headline questions, "Why
did Senator John Kerry stand idly by?" I
>>>>>wonder
>>>>>if Kerry has issued any
public responses to the coverage of this story
>>>>>in
>>>>>the
media.
>>>>> Meyer (the tasered student) asked very good
questions that need to be
>>>>>asked over and
over...
>>>>> The questions asked were, according to the
"Counterpunch" article:
>>>>> At the conclusion of
Kerry's speech, Andrew Meyer, a 21-year old
>>>>>journalism
student was selected by Senator Kerry to ask a question.
>>>>>Meyer
>>>>>held up a copy of BBC
investigative reporter Greg Palast's book,
Armed
>>>>>Madhouse, and asked if Kerry was aware that
Palast's investigations
>>>>>determined that Kerry had
actually won the election. Why, Meyer asked,
>>>>>had
Kerry conceded the election so quickly when there were so many
>>>>>obvious
>>>>>examples of vote
fraud? Why, Meyer, went on to ask, was Kerry refusing
>>>>>to
>>>>>consider Bush's impeachment
when Bush was about to initiate another act
>>>>>of
>>>>>military aggression, this time
against
Iran?
>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>Ted
Moffett
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
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