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Gary, free speech gives everyone "unlimited license to act the fool;" it's when foolishness becomes actually dangerous -- you know, yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater -- that it is rightly restricted. I suspect you're aware of that, but partisanship makes it easier to momentarily forget that while making, in some vague way, a political statement.<br><br>keely<br><br><br><blockquote><hr>From: jampot@roadrunner.com<br>To: sunilramalingam@hotmail.com<br>Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:56:42 -0700<br>CC: vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered<br><br>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I understand perfectly well that you're unhappy
with Theresa's boy</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">and I'm skeptical about your assertion. Would you
have extended your argument to the Yippies in Chicago in '68? Violence as speech
in a political setting. I do not believe that the constitution gives a person
unlimited license to act the fool as long as what they say (or do) can in some
vague way be construed as a political statement.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">g</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">----- Original Message ----- </font>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <</font><a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Cc: <</font><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">vision2020@moscow.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:49
AM</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student
tasered</font></div></div>
<div><font face="Arial"><br><font size="2"></font></font></div><font face="Arial" size="2">> Wrong. I absolutely would make the identical argument.
I'm talking about <br>> the Constitution, not my own preferences. And
isince you missed it, most of <br>> my condemnation here is for the person I
voted for in the last election, not <br>> Bush.<br>> <br>>
Sunil<br>> <br>> <br>>>From: "g. crabtree" <</font><a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">jampot@roadrunner.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">><br>>>To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <</font><a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">><br>>>CC: <</font><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">vision2020@moscow.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">><br>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student
tasered<br>>>Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:51:43
-0700<br>>><br>>>I very much doubt that you would be making the same
argument if the guy was <br>>>a raving Bush supporter who refused to stand
down after his time was up and <br>>>only wanted to hold forth, not ask a
specific question.<br>>><br>>>g<br>>>----- Original Message
----- From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <br>>><</font><a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">><br>>>Cc: <</font><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">vision2020@moscow.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">><br>>>Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 6:25
PM<br>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student
tasered<br>>><br>>><br>>>>Paul,<br>>>><br>>>>The
possibility that the student was looking to 'shake things up' is,
if<br>>>>true, irrelevant. He was at a political forum engaging
in political <br>>>>speech.<br>>>> That's protected by
the First Amendment. None of us have to like it;
<br>>>>it's<br>>>>protected speech. I wouldn't say there
was a 'conspiracy' to shut his <br>>>>views<br>>>>down, but
someone made the wrong decision to shut down what was clearly
a<br>>>>dialog between him and Kerry.<br>>>><br>>>>I
won't defend the decision to taser him. I think it's abominable.
They<br>>>>shouldn't have been touching him, let alone choosing between
options such <br>>>>as<br>>>>electrocuting him or dislocating
his shoulder or breaking his wrist. They<br>>>>were state actors
shutting down free speech, and they shouldn't have been<br>>>>doing
anything of the sort. They should have allowed him to exercise
his<br>>>>rights.<br>>>><br>>>>It would be different
if he showed up and did this in your living room;
<br>>>>but<br>>>>this was a political event. There are
few places where political speech <br>>>>is<br>>>>more
appropriate than in this setting.<br>>>><br>>>>You're right
that Kerry didn't initiate anything. Instead of trying to
<br>>>>stop<br>>>>this, he did nothing but drone on. He
could have told the cops there was <br>>>>no<br>>>>need for
their action. He could have reminded them that this is
America,<br>>>>and that citizens are allowed to question politicians,
and that <br>>>>politicians<br>>>>answer to the People.
What a chance to show what free speech means! But<br>>>>instead
he showed once again his innate ability to miss an
opportunity;<br>>>>oddly enough, that was the thesis of one of the
student's
questions.<br>>>><br>>>>Sunil<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>>>From:
Paul Rumelhart <</font><a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">godshatter@yahoo.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">><br>>>>>To: Ted Moffett <</font><a href="mailto:starbliss@gmail.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">starbliss@gmail.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">><br>>>>>CC: Sunil Ramalingam <</font><a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">>,
<br>>>>>vision2020@moscow.com<br>>>>>Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered<br>>>>>Date: Fri, 21 Sep
2007 17:34:15 -0700<br>>>>><br>>>>>I think there are a
couple of things going on here.<br>>>>><br>>>>>The first
was a decision by the police to remove him from the
microphone<br>>>>>and from the vicinity. The second was to
taser him when they did. I'm<br>>>>>unsure about the first
decision. I have little pity for him, because I<br>>>>>think
he was looking for an avenue to "shake things up". That's just
my<br>>>>>opinion. I also don't think he was removed from the
podium because of <br>>>>>any<br>>>>>specific thing he
said. I don't think he was removed because he
was<br>>>>>upsetting Kerry, either. I think he was removed
because he was <br>>>>>recognized<br>>>>>as someone who
disrupts public events. I would rather that they let
him<br>>>>>finish his question. However, I don't think he
wanted to be allowed to<br>>>>>finish his question, I think he
wanted to make a scene. I don't see a<br>>>>>conspiracy to
shut this man's views down. If he had asked them calmly
<br>>>>>and<br>>>>>politely, he would probably have been
fine.<br>>>>><br>>>>>The decision to taser him when they
did I can somewhat agree with. They<br>>>>>were removing him
from the room, and he would not calm down and submit to<br>>>>>that
action. When they had him on the ground, presumably trying to
get<br>>>>>cuffs on him, he wouldn't stop shouting and wouldn't
cooperate. So they<br>>>>>tasered him, after warning him they
were going to taser him several <br>>>>>times,<br>>>>>in
order to shake him up long enough to get control of him. I think
they<br>>>>>chose to do that rather than to do something more
damaging, such as<br>>>>>dislocating a shoulder or breaking a
wrist. I say that I can "somewhat"<br>>>>>agree with the
decision because I'm not an expert in restraining
someone.<br>>>>>Perhaps they had other less headline-making options
at their disposal.<br>>>>><br>>>>>This is all my opinion
from watching one of the videos on youtube that<br>>>>>shows the
arrest, and from reading comments on various websites on
this<br>>>>>guy's history.<br>>>>><br>>>>>I
also think this had nothing to do with Kerry. He was willing to
answer<br>>>>>the questions, and he didn't initiate
anything.<br>>>>><br>>>>>Paul<br>>>>><br>>>>>Ted
Moffett wrote:<br>>>>>>Sunil et.
al.<br>>>>>> Sorry, I had not read the story at the
"Counterpunch" link you
<br>>>>>>offered.<br>>>>>>And given some of the
responses to this thread, I wonder how many others<br>>>>>>read
the story. I found out what the student was questioning Kerry
<br>>>>>>about<br>>>>>>(the Palast book and the
"stolen" election of 2004, etc.) from
other<br>>>>>>sources. The more I find out about what
happened in this incident, the<br>>>>>>more disturbing the police
response appears. As the "Counterpunch"
<br>>>>>>story<br>>>>>>headline questions, "Why
did Senator John Kerry stand idly by?" I
<br>>>>>>wonder<br>>>>>>if Kerry has issued any
public responses to the coverage of this story
<br>>>>>>in<br>>>>>>the
media.<br>>>>>> Meyer (the tasered student) asked very good
questions that need to be<br>>>>>>asked over and
over...<br>>>>>> The questions asked were, according to the
"Counterpunch" article:<br>>>>>> At the conclusion of
Kerry's speech, Andrew Meyer, a 21-year old<br>>>>>>journalism
student was selected by Senator Kerry to ask a question.
<br>>>>>>Meyer<br>>>>>>held up a copy of BBC
investigative reporter Greg Palast's book,
Armed<br>>>>>>Madhouse, and asked if Kerry was aware that
Palast's investigations<br>>>>>>determined that Kerry had
actually won the election. Why, Meyer asked,<br>>>>>>had
Kerry conceded the election so quickly when there were so many
<br>>>>>>obvious<br>>>>>>examples of vote
fraud? Why, Meyer, went on to ask, was Kerry refusing
<br>>>>>>to<br>>>>>>consider Bush's impeachment
when Bush was about to initiate another act
<br>>>>>>of<br>>>>>>military aggression, this time
against
Iran?<br>>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>>>>>>Ted
Moffett<br>>>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>>=======================================================<br>>>>List
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1994.<br>>>>
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</font><a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</font></a><br><font face="Arial" size="2">>>>=======================================================<br>>>><br>>><br>>><br>>
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