[Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
g. crabtree
jampot at roadrunner.com
Sat Sep 22 20:22:44 PDT 2007
In which of my posts did I say "he got what he deserved?" The event organizers asked the cops to remove the miscreant. When he refused their orders and became combative he broke the law and the authorities did what they thought they had to. Had he complied with their requests none of this would be news. I really don't understand why you seem to need to find face to put on this other than those that were there. No conservative's engineered this little debacle, it's all you folks. If that's bitter, I guess I can live with it.
g
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Kovis
To: g. crabtree ; Sunil Ramalingam
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
Gary, If you showed up at the AARP event and droned on for a 90 minute rant, I wouldn't ask the cops to taze you. I would walk out. Jesus, since when do we taze people for stuff like this? I have chaired school board meetings where taxpayers talked until 3:00 in the morning. Finally, everyone went home. We didn't taze them. We didn't sic the cops on them. What is the matter with this country when intelligent people like you think that what happened at that political speech was okay? That that "guy" got what he deserved! You are a really bitter man. Chuck Kovis
----- Original Message -----
From: g. crabtree
To: Sunil Ramalingam
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
Now I'm afraid it's you that is deliberately misconstruing a point. I am "choosing" to stick to nothing. I most assuredly did not accuse you of "supporting state action to squelch political speech." I was attempting to determine where you think the line is to be drawn. You might note the question marks sprinkled through out my posts.
You apparently believe that the kid who was tazered had every right to not follow the rules set out at the event Kerry spoke at. By your standard should he have been allowed to go on for another 15 minutes? An hour? Till the cows came home? What about if instead of a topic that is near and dear to your heart he had elected to carry on about repealing the 13th and 14th amendment? That would still fall under the umbrella of political speech after all. Or does that take the discussion that extra centimeter and become the dreaded "Hate Speech." Abhorred by all and protected by none.
Candidates at a debate have rules laid out in advance stipulating time limits. If they egregiously exceed these limits the moderator will cut them off and if ness kill their mike. Is this a constitutional travesty?
How about the AARP event that Ms. Hovey announced earlier today. If I jump up and commence a 90 minute conservative rant about the evils of the current Mayor and council, even though the event schedule has been clearly laid out, will that be just ducky by you? Political speech at a political event after all.
Nice try on the "I was six" dodge. I was 10. At least a dozen years before I started to be aware of anything that didn't involve girls and debauchery. We've both been to school. You write as though you may have been paying attention. It's not as though the events surrounding the 1968 democratic convention in Chicago were an obscure, seldom mentioned event. The whole Chicago 7 situation revolved around the notion of violent demonstration as political speech at what was a decidedly political event. Still diggen' the all's fair speech wise at a political gathering?
Just so there's no mistaking my intent this time around, the point I am making, and the question I am asking is where do you draw the line? Oh, and for the record I did not tell or challenge "Andy to find support for his statement," I told him flat out there was none to be had. Subtle difference I know and, I suspect, you know as well. It just wouldn't have made your case quite as well to have been accurate.
g
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
> Then Gary, you are choosing to stick to a belief that I have never
> supported. The only thing you are proving is that you don't know squat
> about me or my beliefs. Your position is the written version of covering
> your ears and shouting "La la la," but have at it, it's still a free
> country. For now.
>
> You just told Andy to find support for his statement about you in your last
> hundred or so posts. I challenge you to find me supporting state action to
> squelch political speech in my posts. Good luck and pack a lunch. You have
> nothing but your wish to pin a belief to me, one that I don't hold. You
> want people to support what they say about you, but you don't hold yourself
> to the same standard when it comes to others.
>
> I am talking here about a person who was engaged in political speech. It
> was not accompanied by violence. This doesn't have to be construed as
> political speech in 'some vague way .'
>
> The Yippees in Chicago in '68? I was 6, Gary, I must have missed the
> footage while I was riding my bike, so I'm not talking about them. Not
> interested in bait-and-switch.
>
> Sunil
>
>
>>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>>To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>>CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
>>Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:56:42 -0700
>>
>>I understand perfectly well that you're unhappy with Theresa's boy
>>and I'm skeptical about your assertion. Would you have extended your
>>argument to the Yippies in Chicago in '68? Violence as speech in a
>>political setting. I do not believe that the constitution gives a person
>>unlimited license to act the fool as long as what they say (or do) can in
>>some vague way be construed as a political statement.
>>
>>g
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>>Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:49 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
>>
>>
>> > Wrong. I absolutely would make the identical argument. I'm talking
>>about
>> > the Constitution, not my own preferences. And isince you missed it,
>>most of
>> > my condemnation here is for the person I voted for in the last election,
>>not
>> > Bush.
>> >
>> > Sunil
>> >
>> >
>
>
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