[Vision2020] discrimination and zoning (was say what?)
g. crabtree
jampot at roadrunner.com
Sat Sep 22 11:58:06 PDT 2007
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything but I imagine very few. That is unless they're smacked by one that's driving.
g
P.S. I meant Chief Weaver in the preceding post. Sorry about the temporary demotion, Dan.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] discrimination and zoning (was say what?)
> How many of them die walking to their apartments or to another party?
>
> Sunil
>
>
>>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>>To: "Sunil Ramalingam"
>><sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>,<vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] discrimination and zoning (was say what?)
>>Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 07:08:30 -0700
>>
>>"Collage kids drinking beer" have a proven track record of getting into
>>cars or hopping onto motorcycles and killing themselves and others. I don't
>>think that you need a particularly keen memory to be able to dredge up
>>several instances of this recently being the case. When Captain Weaver
>>assigns a higher priority to preventing deaths then handing out tickets I
>>really don't think that he's being particularly capricious or arbitrary. I
>>think he's displaying good judgment.
>>
>>g
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Sunil Ramalingam"
>><sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 3:22 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] discrimination and zoning (was say what?)
>>
>>
>>>I don't know Tom, there always seem to be plenty of officers at the
>>>beginning of fall semester to investigate college kids drinking beer.
>>>
>>>Sunil
>>>
>>>
>>>>From: Tom Ivie <the_ivies3 at yahoo.com>
>>>>To: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] discrimination and zoning (was say what?)
>>>>Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:02:03 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>
>>>>Another argument for adding to our police force.
>>>>
>>>>bill bonte <bbonte at moscow.com> wrote: Evidently it's much easier to pass
>>>>laws, ordinances and zoning codes than it is to enforce them. We need
>>>>strict enforcement of existing laws, ordinances and codes. How about
>>>>enforcing speed limits. The chief of
>>>>police has informed me that officers have more important things to do
>>>>than
>>>>enforce traffic laws. Maybe this
>>>>is true of noise and parking ordinances also.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Newer developments have CC&Rs, another unenforceable set of codes written
>>>>to assure prospective buyers their property values are safe, but in
>>>>reality
>>>>useless.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>If Moscow had strict enforcement of zoning codes, the Verizon building
>>>>would never have been sold to NSA
>>>>in the first place.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bill Bont
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Sep 20, 2007, at 2:46 PM, keely emerinemix wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Noise IS covered under an ordinance; other forms of illegal behavior
>>>>under others. And the number of people, whether contemplative monks or
>>>>hard-partying college boys, also is covered under ordinance. Has been
>>>>for
>>>>at least 15 years. That's because -- and it really IS this simple --
>>>>renting to non-family members constitutes running a business, one that
>>>>the
>>>>City has long decided is unlawful in areas zoned not for business, but
>>>>for
>>>>single-family homes.
>>>>
>>>>Period.
>>>>
>>>>Rocket science need not be employed here, but I would invite doubters to
>>>>remember the preschool lessons of "obey rules" and "break rules" if
>>>>they're
>>>>further confused.
>>>>
>>>>keely
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:38:43 -0700
>>>> > From: lfalen at turbonet.com
>>>> > To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com; the_ivies3 at yahoo.com;
>>>>vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What? Discrimination
>>>> >
>>>> > It seems to me that controlling the number people that live in a house
>>>>is a round about way of getting at the "stated problem"
>>>> > If noise is the problem regulate that. If parking is a problem
>>>>regulate
>>>>that. The only problem I see with the number of people living in one
>>>>house
>>>>would be a potential safety problem.
>>>> > Roger
>>>> > -----Original message-----
>>>> > From: Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
>>>> > Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:57:07 -0700
>>>> > To: Tom Ivie the_ivies3 at yahoo.com, Moscow Vision 2020
>>>>vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What? Discrimination
>>>> >
>>>> > > Tom Ivie,
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Lowering the number of occupants per housing unit by law increases
>>>>demand for more apartments and housing units, driving the cost up. With
>>>>rents up even more, renters are further soaked again by limiting the
>>>>number
>>>>of people they can split rent with.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Moscow is a college town. Students cannot afford much more that >
>>>> > $300
>>>>piece for rent. IF Moscow raises its rents, the number of students
>>>>returning to UI will reduce because they cannot afford to live in the
>>>>city
>>>>with no jobs and unaffordable housing. Many of them will elect elsewhere
>>>>to
>>>>attend like BSU, Albertson, NNU, ISU, LCSC or the new junior college in
>>>>Nampa. But this is a good move for the socialists agenda of destroying
>>>>the
>>>>Moscow economy through relentless unneeded government regulation.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Best,
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Donovan
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Tom Ivie <the_ivies3 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> > > Doesn't it include a CUP process? As I understand it, and I could
>>>>be wrong, lowering the number brings Moscow more in-line with the
>>>>codified
>>>>number that the majority of cities our size use.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote: "These
>>>>three
>>>>people [(Pall, Ament and Lamar)] feel that counting unrelated people in a
>>>> > > dwelling will solve noise and parking problems in residential
>>>> > > neighborhoods."
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Mr. Busch is correct on this point. I think counting the number of
>>>>unrelated people is discriminatory. When I worked at Inclusion North
>>>>there
>>>>were often several people with disabilities living in one home because
>>>>they
>>>>cannot afford their own place on a $660 a month SSI check, especially in
>>>>a
>>>>city like Moscow. There are many poor, disabled, and elderly people that
>>>>MUST live together in one dwelling for economic survival. This code is a
>>>>raw deal for those that are in need of affordable housing. Another
>>>>example
>>>>of elitist socialists trying to make everyone live like them regardless
>>>>of
>>>>their financial situations. The City Council members are saying, "Let
>>>>them
>>>>eat cake", or in this case, let them live in an apartment with only two
>>>>people if they can only afford to live in an apartment with four others.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > And on the other side of the coin, a family of two adults with two
>>>>teenagers can be very noisy and make life for their neighbors
>>>>intolerable.
>>>>Why not limit how many teenagers can live in one household, or how many
>>>>babies a single mom can have? It would be just as unfair.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > An unjust law, clearly invented by people living in nice homes
>>>>with
>>>>secure incomes. I hope the newly elected city council will reverse this
>>>>piece of discrimination.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > If Moscow would allow for the building of affordable housing for
>>>>what people actually earn in Moscow we would not have 5 students or 5
>>>>people on SSI living in one housing unit. And BTW, Moscow has more people
>>>>per housing unit then any other city in the state according the BLS.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Best,
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Donovan
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>>>> > > In a letter to the editor of the Lewiston Tribune, published today
>>>> > > (September 16, 2007), Steve Busch suggests that "enforcing existing
>>>>law
>>>> > > [Moscow Zoning Code] is all that is necessary."
>>>> > >
>>>> > > -----------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Comments made in a letter to the editor authored by local attorney
>>>>Jack
>>>> > > Porter and published in the Sept. 12 Lewiston Tribune cannot be
>>>>ignored. On
>>>> > > Sept. 4, the current city council voted 3-2 to change Moscow's city
>>>>code in
>>>> > > an attempt to deal with a real problem.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Unfortunately, the majority (Pall, Ament and Lamar) threw the baby >
>>>> > out
>>>>with
>>>> > > the bath water. These three people feel that counting unrelated > >
>>>>people
>>>>in a
>>>> > > dwelling will solve noise and parking problems in residential
>>>>neighborhoods.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > The Greater Moscow Alliance feel enforcing existing law is all that
>>>> > > is
>>>> > > necessary. We said so in a letter presented to the council on Sept.
>>>> > > 10
>>>>(to
>>>> > > see a copy visit www.greatermoscow.org). Mr. Porter thinks this is
>>>>evidence
>>>> > > the GMA is insensitive to Moscow citizens' cherished life style.
>>>>Nothing
>>>> > > could be further from the truth. GMA is working hard to educate the
>>>>public
>>>> > > about issues and candidates.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I urge all Moscow voters to ask candidates for city council tough
>>>>questions.
>>>> > > Listen carefully to the answers and vote your conscience.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Steve Busch
>>>> > > President
>>>> > > Greater Moscow Alliance
>>>> > > Moscow
>>>> > >
>>>> > > -----------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Questions, Mr. Busch: How often, and how selective, should > >
>>>>enforcement
>>>>of
>>>> > > zoning codes be enforced? Instead of amending the current code ad
>>>>nauseam
>>>> > > and allowing for conditional use permits every time somebody
>>>>violates
>>>> > > "existing law", should we draw the proverbial line in the sand, much
>>>>like
>>>> > > the Raven, strongly proclaim "Ne'er more", and further demand that
>>>>those
>>>> > > entities that are currently in violation of the zoning code move
>>>>elsewhere?
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Reminder, folks!
>>>> > > http://tinyurl.com/36ghxk
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Tom Hansen
>>>> > > Moscow, Idaho
>>>> > >
>>>> > > "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The
>>>>college
>>>> > > students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>>>> > >
>>>> > > - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > =======================================================
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>>>> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> > > =======================================================
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > ---------------------------------
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>>>> > > =======================================================
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Tom & Liz Ivie
>>>> > > ---------------------------------
>>>> > > Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with > >
>>>>Yahoo!
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>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > ---------------------------------
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>>>> > >
>>>> >
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>---------------------------------
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>>>>now!=======================================================
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>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>=======================================================
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>=======================================================
>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>=======================================================
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Tom & Liz Ivie
>>>>
>>>>---------------------------------
>>>>Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>=======================================================
>>>List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>=======================================================
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
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