[Vision2020] Keely chomps and foams
Tony
tonytime at clearwire.net
Tue Apr 17 16:24:40 PDT 2007
Walter got a nasty smackdown from me, Keely, because he took the first shot, and anonymously at that. I am under no obligation to allow others to assault me without defending myself. You defend yourself whenever someone questions your judgment, why am I wrong for doing precisely the same thing?
Fascinating!
The bottom line Keely, is that you agree with Mr. Timid's political positions and disagree with mine. Won't you do us all a favor and dispense with this notion that it is my invective which has you upset, and be honest: there is plenty of invective on both sides on this list and that is not what has your panties in a twist. What you find unacceptable is that I would DARE to disagree with you, and that I do so persuasively. Face the fact that you smug leftists no longer have a stranglehold on this forum. The diversity that you so often claim to value, has come aboard, and you are in a snit because you view yourself as a member of the anointed, and anyone with the temerity to challenge you as just another hopelessly benighted rube.
What would Jesus do, Keely? He'd tell you to pipe down and consider the possibility that you don't have all the answers. That perhaps you should encourage a diversity of views instead of smugly dismissing those with whom you disagree.
What a phony Christian you are. You profess to follow Christ while condemning someone who disagrees with you as a chomping, foaming, hysterical chunk of cat shit. Judge not, unless you are the great Keely, in which case, heap on the scorn.
Look Caligula, it is not me who espouses filth and hatred to be challenged. It is you who advocate for a woman's "right" to kill her children. I stand up for their right to live. Which side is more compassionate you barbarian? I stand against those who would blow woman and children to pieces with glazed-eyed glee. You defend these RAGHEAD murderers at every turn. It is therefore you, miss phony Christian, who enables and promotes hate, not me.
Keeely, this morally superior posture you effect is really nauseating. Thomas Sowell was right about you controlling leftists. You really do feel you are superior to the masses and obligated to correct their inferior reasoning at every turn. You are quite simply a tyrant, but one with no power. An aspiring dictator without the power to subjugate anyone. You will live out the balance of your ineffectual little life without the satisfaction of tyrannizing anyone. Nor will you enjoy the license to blather on in defense of terrorists and baby killers without opposition.
It's called the first amendment sister.
Deal with it.
-Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: keely emerinemix
To: Tony ; Walter Smith
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 5:20 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Parting shots, fired high
Gee, and I was going to write to "walter" to thank him for at least giving us a shot. Now the tone of my letter changes; I find that I'm once again having to acknowledge, with sorrow, the existence of such a vitriol-spewing fellow correspondent as Tony.
On behalf of the overwhelmingly kind, gracious members of the Vision 2020, I'm sorry that your brief engagement resulted in the nasty smackdown you got from a true master of vituperation. For what it's worth, I hope you reconsider ending your active involvement on the list. I'm very glad you read Vision 2020 and I appreciate your thoughtful comments below and in your previous posts. Yours is a perspective we could all benefit from, and while I wish you felt you could post under your real name, I respect that you choose not to.
I choose to use my name -- Keely -- and have been open about being THAT Keely that people may know from my marriage to Jeff, my former position on the school board, or my very public and passionate criticism of Christ Church. And so as Keely Emerine Mix, I've taken a lot of the same kind of hits as Debi R-S has (and, by the way, I consider her a friend and appreciate her gutsy approach to debate). If you feel that it would be unwise or uncomfortable to be a target, that's understandable -- more than one person has questioned my sanity for continuing to stay in the fray, and I periodically go through mini-fasts from this and other media to re-examine both my conduct and my motives.
Unfortunately, there's a need to respond coherently and sensibly to Tony's special brand of bigotry and chomping, foaming hysteria. No other reasonable human being would consider "raghead" appropriate under any circumstances, and virtually no one would argue seriously that the "N" word is "just for gang-bangers" and thus not necessarily offensive, as you cite in your post. It's disingenuous and not terribly clever to parade "fag," "gay," and other examples of English evolving to try to justify using contemptible epithets. (And woe be it to anyone whose epitaph read that he or she was a user of racial epithets . . . ). Ignoring Tony would be easy, I'll grant. But it's necessary that the filth and hatred contained in his words be exposed, be examined, and be challenged. You appear to be someone who can do that eloquently and with insight, Walter, and I'm sorry to lose you.
And yes, I fully expect to be publicly excoriated by the erudite Mr. Simpson. I'd care more, but dang -- I have to sweep up cat litter now, knowing that what I find there is about as pleasant as hearing from Tony.
keely
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From: tonytime at clearwire.net
To: don.nergal at gmail.com
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:36:28 -0700
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Parting shots, fired high
Dear Mr. Timid, Thanks for acknowledging that my participation in this forum is not un-American after all. Glad we resolved that wrenching question. As to my determination to force my beliefs down other's throats, I simply feel that you do not have the right force your view down our throats: that innocent children should be ripped in pieces from their mother's womb. For Christ's sake, Mr. hide in the shadows, which view is more compassionate? Life for the innocent, or death at your whim? You people are utterly mad!
Apparently unsatisfied to reveal yourself as an insensitive enabler of the culture of death, you then go on to accuse me of redefining racial "epitaphs." One wonders, surely you meant epithets? You cannot grasp how one could resent murderous bomb-throwers and then insult them without having ill will toward any race in particular. Why must one's use of RAGHEAD or any other term, for that matter, be viewed from one particular angle of meaning when the English language evolves regularly? Gay used to mean happy and carefree, now it means homosexual. Fag once referred to a cigarette, now, well.... You can see how the meaning of terms takes on different meanings over time. Why am I not allowed to participate in the evolution of language? You folks have been writing Newspeak for decades. What's the matter Mr. Timid? Can't take any of your own medicine?
As for my comparison of Nick Gier to Josef Mengele: Given Gier's whacked out pronouncements which have consistently revealed him to be an intellectual mutant, devoid of a soul, I STAND FIRMLY BY MY CHARGE.
And YOU sir, need to cope with the first amendment and GET OVER IT!
With the courage to sign my name,
TONY
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Smith
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 9:46 AM
Subject: [Vision2020] Parting shots
First, I want to again say thank you to those willing to participate in this forum, and for the welcome I have received from most, despite the "drive-by posting" nature of my own recent semi-participation. Your taking part in this forum, despite the personal dangers, is courageous and demonstrates that there may still be hope for democracy. Thank you Debi, in particular, for staying with it, even after facing the indignities some on here are willing to hurl your way. Despite this, I do not believe I will actively participate, for a number of reasons. I do not feel comfortable posting here under my own name (nor do I believe it would be appropriate for me to do so, at this time), but I dislike anonymous bomb-throwing. My reason for posting here in the first place was anger, anger in particular at the recent treatment afforded Mr. Johnson and Mr. Butler. In all truth, the only reaction I have to much of what takes place on vision2020 is anger, and anger is not something I need to promote in myself. It isn't good for my blood pressure, nor for my soul. I may from time to time reply on here again, probably as some new Moscow-special-powder-keg blows up once more.
I was going to post some of the more offensive responses to my initial joke as a sort of skin-thickness test; but decided not to, based in part on the fact that the authors did not decide to make them public themselves, and that while I would get some visceral pleasure watching the reactions, no real purpose would be served. I also avoid it, because while intended as a jab at over-sensitivity, I am about to display my own (perhaps over-) sensitivity on a particular matter, and the irony would simply be too much.
On to that sensitivity...
Mr. Simpson would like to know what exactly he said that I find "disgusting and un-American", and so I will respond to him here, once only. In truth, I mis-used the term "un-American," as there is really little that is more American than arguing politics, particularly with the vehemence Mr. Simpson demonstrates. What I meant by it is that his posts generally argue a position I find diametrically opposed to the true greatness of our American way. He consistently supports an administration that is undermining our basic freedoms, exemplified by the recent loss of habeas corpus, although there are many other examples. He supports the authoritarian imposition by government force of his own personal beliefs, such as denying women the right to make their own reproductive choices, denying due process to those accused of terrorism, and denying homosexuals the basic human dignity of marriage. He also seems to enjoy employing a favorite tactic of the white-supremacist, that being the tactic of attempting to redefine racial epitaphs. Tony says "raghead" only applies to terrorists, he has no problem with Arabs (while also being willfully ignorant of fact that his term actually targets entirely different groups); The vile hal turner says "nigger" only applies to gang-bangers, he has no problem with blacks; "spic" only applies to illegal immigrants, he has no problem with Mexicans; Yeah, right... More sick fantasies please. These are the things I find "un-American." While I would not attempt to stop them from saying what they will, their words do cost them my respect.
Any right you would deprive others of without due process, is a right you yourself do not deserve. This is the same basic problem I have with what J Ford has been saying of late.
As for what amongst Mr. Simpson's comments I find "disgusting", above and beyond what I have already said, and the fundamental reason I have little to no respect for the man: There is really only one thing, that being Mr. Simpson's comparison of Prof. Gier to mengele. I tend to agree with Godwin, that anytime a comparison to nazis is made, there is no longer any hope of a rational conversation. I do understand that in the heat of argument, inappropriate things will be said, and can certainly be forgiven, even something so base as a nazi comparison, even something so evil as a comparison to mengele. But Mr. Simpson did not seek forgiveness after cooling down, nor did he even recognize the evil he had committed (and yes, I do consider saying what he said to be an act of evil,) rather he decided to stand by his guns and reiterate his vile comparison. The things the nazis did are near always beyond compare, we have thankfully not seen the like for over half a century, and hopefully never will again (current events, particularly the actions of our current "leaders", do give me pause, however.) But the things mengele did go far beyond even typical nazi filth, he was one of the greatest evils this world has ever faced, and in my opinion far worse even than hitler himself. Short of the actual re-creation of his atrocities (may that such a thing never comes to pass,) nothing can compare. Any comparison to anything in our modern world is inappropriate, only diminishes our collective memory, and serves to legitimize mengele's deeds. Comparisons to serial killers, to terrorists, to dictators, to rapists, or to anything else, can only weaken our understanding and our rage. To make such a comparison to a person who simply supports a woman's right to make her own choices (even if one were to consider such a thing murder,) is beyond disgusting. Nick is not kidnapping women and vivisecting them in the name of science, nor is he even performing abortions, he is simply pro-choice. Mr. Simpson's words in actuality say nothing about Prof. Gier, but they do show grave disrespect to those who were tortured and died at mengele's hands, insult those who laid down their own lives to stop him, risk legitimizing his crimes (thus putting all our descendants futures at risk,) and reveal Mr. Simpson himself as a degenerate.
Sincerely, and at least for now, finally,
Anon
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