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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Walter got a nasty smackdown from me, Keely, because he
took the first shot, and anonymously at that. I am under no obligation to
allow others to assault me without defending myself. You defend yourself
whenever someone questions your judgment, why am I wrong for doing precisely the
same thing?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Fascinating!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>The bottom line Keely, is that you agree with Mr. Timid's
political positions and disagree with mine. Won't you do us all a favor
and dispense with this notion that it is my invective which has you upset, and
be honest: there is plenty of invective on both sides on this list and that is
not what has your panties in a twist. What you find unacceptable is that I
would DARE to disagree with you, and that I do so persuasively. Face the
fact that you smug leftists no longer have a stranglehold on this forum.
The diversity that you so often claim to value, has come aboard, and you are in
a snit because you view yourself as a member of the anointed, and anyone with
the temerity to challenge you as just another hopelessly benighted
rube.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>What would Jesus do, Keely? He'd tell you
to pipe down and consider the possibility that you don't have all the
answers. That perhaps you should encourage a diversity of views instead of
smugly dismissing those with whom you disagree.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>What a phony Christian you are. You profess to
follow Christ while condemning someone who disagrees with you as a
chomping, foaming, hysterical chunk of cat shit. Judge not, unless you
are the great Keely, in which case, heap on the scorn.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Look Caligula, it is not me who espouses filth and hatred
to be challenged. It is you who advocate for a woman's "right" to kill her
children. I stand up for their right to live. Which side is more
compassionate you barbarian? I stand against those who would blow woman
and children to pieces with glazed-eyed glee. You defend these RAGHEAD
murderers at every turn. It is therefore you, miss phony Christian, who
enables and promotes hate, not me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Keeely, this morally superior posture you effect is really
nauseating. Thomas Sowell was right about you controlling leftists.
You really do feel you are superior to the masses and obligated to correct their
inferior reasoning at every turn. You are quite simply a tyrant, but one
with no power. An aspiring dictator without the power to subjugate
anyone. You will live out the balance of your ineffectual little life
without the satisfaction of tyrannizing anyone. Nor will you enjoy the
license to blather on in defense of terrorists and baby killers without
opposition.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>It's called the first amendment sister.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Deal with it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>-Tony</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=kjajmix1@msn.com href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely emerinemix</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=tonytime@clearwire.net
href="mailto:tonytime@clearwire.net">Tony</A> ; <A title=don.nergal@gmail.com
href="mailto:don.nergal@gmail.com">Walter Smith</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, April 16, 2007 5:20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Vision2020] Parting shots,
fired high</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Gee, and I was going to write to "walter" to thank him for at
least giving us a shot. Now the tone of my letter changes; I find that
I'm once again having to acknowledge, with sorrow, the existence of such a
vitriol-spewing fellow correspondent as Tony.<BR><BR>On behalf of the
overwhelmingly kind, gracious members of the Vision 2020, I'm sorry that your
brief engagement resulted in the nasty smackdown you got from a true master of
vituperation. For what it's worth, I hope you reconsider ending your
active involvement on the list. I'm very glad you read Vision 2020 and
I appreciate your thoughtful comments below and in your previous posts.
Yours is a perspective we could all benefit from, and while I wish you felt
you could post under your real name, I respect that you choose not to.
<BR><BR>I choose to use my name -- Keely -- and have been open about being
THAT Keely that people may know from my marriage to Jeff, my former position
on the school board, or my very public and passionate criticism of Christ
Church. And so as Keely Emerine Mix, I've taken a lot of the same kind
of hits as Debi R-S has (and, by the way, I consider her a friend and
appreciate her gutsy approach to debate). If you feel that it would be
unwise or uncomfortable to be a target, that's understandable -- more than one
person has questioned my sanity for continuing to stay in the fray, and I
periodically go through mini-fasts from this and other media to re-examine
both my conduct and my motives. <BR><BR>Unfortunately, there's a need to
respond coherently and sensibly to Tony's special brand of bigotry and
chomping, foaming hysteria. No other reasonable human being would
consider "raghead" appropriate under any circumstances, and virtually no one
would argue seriously that the "N" word is "just for gang-bangers" and thus
not necessarily offensive, as you cite in your post. It's disingenuous
and not terribly clever to parade "fag," "gay," and other examples of English
evolving to try to justify using contemptible epithets. (And woe be it
to anyone whose epitaph read that he or she was a user of racial epithets . .
. ). Ignoring Tony would be easy, I'll grant. But it's necessary
that the filth and hatred contained in his words be exposed, be
examined, and be challenged. You appear to be someone who can do
that eloquently and with insight, Walter, and I'm sorry to lose
you.<BR><BR>And yes, I fully expect to be publicly excoriated by the erudite
Mr. Simpson. I'd care more, but dang -- I have to sweep up cat litter
now, knowing that what I find there is about as pleasant as hearing from
Tony.<BR><BR>keely<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
From: tonytime@clearwire.net<BR>To: don.nergal@gmail.com<BR>Date: Mon, 16
Apr 2007 15:36:28 -0700<BR>CC: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Parting shots, fired high<BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dear Mr. Timid, Thanks for acknowledging that
my participation in this forum is not un-American after all. Glad we
resolved that wrenching question. As to my determination to force my
beliefs down other's throats, I simply feel that you do not have the right
force your view down our throats: that innocent children should be ripped in
pieces from their mother's womb. For Christ's sake, Mr. hide in the
shadows, which view is more compassionate? Life for the innocent, or
death at your whim? You people are utterly mad!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Apparently unsatisfied to reveal yourself as an
insensitive enabler of the culture of death, you then go on to accuse me of
redefining racial "epitaphs." One wonders, surely you meant
epithets? You cannot grasp how one could resent murderous
bomb-throwers and then insult them without having ill will toward any race
in particular. Why must one's use of RAGHEAD or any other term, for
that matter, be viewed from one particular angle of meaning when the
English language evolves regularly? Gay used to mean happy and
carefree, now it means homosexual. Fag once referred to a cigarette,
now, well.... You can see how the meaning of terms takes on different
meanings over time. Why am I not allowed to participate in the
evolution of language? You folks have been writing Newspeak for
decades. What's the matter Mr. Timid? Can't take any of your own
medicine?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As for my comparison of Nick Gier to Josef
Mengele: Given Gier's whacked out pronouncements which have
consistently revealed him to be an intellectual mutant, devoid of a soul, I
STAND FIRMLY BY MY CHARGE.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>And YOU sir, need to cope with the first
amendment and GET OVER IT!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>With the courage to sign my name,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>TONY</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=don.nergal@gmail.com href="mailto:don.nergal@gmail.com">Walter
Smith</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Monday, April 16, 2007 9:46 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
[Vision2020] Parting shots</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>First, I want to again say thank you to those willing to
participate in this forum, and for the welcome I have received from most,
despite the "drive-by posting" nature of my own recent semi-participation.
Your taking part in this forum, despite the personal dangers, is
courageous and demonstrates that there may still be hope for democracy.
Thank you Debi, in particular, for staying with it, even after facing the
indignities some on here are willing to hurl your way. Despite this, I do
not believe I will actively participate, for a number of reasons. I do not
feel comfortable posting here under my own name (nor do I believe it would
be appropriate for me to do so, at this time), but I dislike anonymous
bomb-throwing. My reason for posting here in the first place was anger,
anger in particular at the recent treatment afforded Mr. Johnson and Mr.
Butler. In all truth, the only reaction I have to much of what takes place
on vision2020 is anger, and anger is not something I need to promote in
myself. It isn't good for my blood pressure, nor for my soul. I may from
time to time reply on here again, probably as some new
Moscow-special-powder-keg blows up once more. <BR><BR>I was going to post
some of the more offensive responses to my initial joke as a sort of
skin-thickness test; but decided not to, based in part on the fact that
the authors did not decide to make them public themselves, and that while
I would get some visceral pleasure watching the reactions, no real purpose
would be served. I also avoid it, because while intended as a jab at
over-sensitivity, I am about to display my own (perhaps over-) sensitivity
on a particular matter, and the irony would simply be too much. <BR><BR>On
to that sensitivity...<BR><BR>Mr. Simpson would like to know what exactly
he said that I find "disgusting and un-American", and so I will respond to
him here, once only. In truth, I mis-used the term "un-American," as there
is really little that is more American than arguing politics, particularly
with the vehemence Mr. Simpson demonstrates. What I meant by it is that
his posts generally argue a position I find diametrically opposed to the
true greatness of our American way. He consistently supports an
administration that is undermining our basic freedoms, exemplified by the
recent loss of habeas corpus, although there are many other examples. He
supports the authoritarian imposition by government force of his own
personal beliefs, such as denying women the right to make their own
reproductive choices, denying due process to those accused of terrorism,
and denying homosexuals the basic human dignity of marriage. He also seems
to enjoy employing a favorite tactic of the white-supremacist, that being
the tactic of attempting to redefine racial epitaphs. Tony says "raghead"
only applies to terrorists, he has no problem with Arabs (while also being
willfully ignorant of fact that his term actually targets entirely
different groups); The vile hal turner says "nigger" only applies to
gang-bangers, he has no problem with blacks; "spic" only applies to
illegal immigrants, he has no problem with Mexicans; Yeah, right... More
sick fantasies please. These are the things I find "un-American." While I
would not attempt to stop them from saying what they will, their words do
cost them my respect. <BR><BR>Any right you would deprive others of
without due process, is a right you yourself do not deserve. This is the
same basic problem I have with what J Ford has been saying of
late.<BR><BR>As for what amongst Mr. Simpson's comments I find
"disgusting", above and beyond what I have already said, and the
fundamental reason I have little to no respect for the man: There is
really only one thing, that being Mr. Simpson's comparison of Prof. Gier
to mengele. I tend to agree with Godwin, that anytime a comparison to
nazis is made, there is no longer any hope of a rational conversation. I
do understand that in the heat of argument, inappropriate things will be
said, and can certainly be forgiven, even something so base as a nazi
comparison, even something so evil as a comparison to mengele. But Mr.
Simpson did not seek forgiveness after cooling down, nor did he even
recognize the evil he had committed (and yes, I do consider saying what he
said to be an act of evil,) rather he decided to stand by his guns and
reiterate his vile comparison. The things the nazis did are near always
beyond compare, we have thankfully not seen the like for over half a
century, and hopefully never will again (current events, particularly the
actions of our current "leaders", do give me pause, however.) But the
things mengele did go far beyond even typical nazi filth, he was one of
the greatest evils this world has ever faced, and in my opinion far worse
even than hitler himself. Short of the actual re-creation of his
atrocities (may that such a thing never comes to pass,) nothing can
compare. Any comparison to anything in our modern world is inappropriate,
only diminishes our collective memory, and serves to legitimize mengele's
deeds. Comparisons to serial killers, to terrorists, to dictators, to
rapists, or to anything else, can only weaken our understanding and our
rage. To make such a comparison to a person who simply supports a woman's
right to make her own choices (even if one were to consider such a thing
murder,) is beyond disgusting. Nick is not kidnapping women and
vivisecting them in the name of science, nor is he even performing
abortions, he is simply pro-choice. Mr. Simpson's words in actuality say
nothing about Prof. Gier, but they do show grave disrespect to those who
were tortured and died at mengele's hands, insult those who laid down
their own lives to stop him, risk legitimizing his crimes (thus putting
all our descendants futures at risk,) and reveal Mr. Simpson himself as a
degenerate. <BR><BR>Sincerely, and at least for now,
finally,<BR>Anon<BR><BR>
<HR>
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