[Vision2020] Parting shots, fired high

Mon Apr 16 17:20:08 PDT 2007

Gee, and I was going to write to "walter" to thank him for at least giving us a shot.  Now the tone of my letter changes; I find that I'm once again having to acknowledge, with sorrow, the existence of such a vitriol-spewing fellow correspondent as Tony.On behalf of the overwhelmingly kind, gracious members of the Vision 2020, I'm sorry that your brief engagement resulted in the nasty smackdown you got from a true master of vituperation.  For what it's worth, I hope you reconsider ending your active involvement on the list.   I'm very glad you read Vision 2020 and I appreciate your thoughtful comments below and in your previous posts.  Yours is a perspective we could all benefit from, and while I wish you felt you could post under your real name, I respect that you choose not to.  I choose to use my name -- Keely -- and have been open about being THAT Keely that people may know from my marriage to Jeff, my former position on the school board, or my very public and passionate criticism of Christ Church.  And so as Keely Emerine Mix, I've taken a lot of the same kind of hits as Debi R-S has (and, by the way, I consider her a friend and appreciate her gutsy approach to debate).  If you feel that it would be unwise or uncomfortable to be a target, that's understandable -- more than one person has questioned my sanity for continuing to stay in the fray, and I periodically go through mini-fasts from this and other media to re-examine both my conduct and my motives.  Unfortunately, there's a need to respond coherently and sensibly to Tony's special brand of bigotry and chomping, foaming hysteria.  No other reasonable human being would consider "raghead" appropriate under any circumstances, and virtually no one would argue seriously that the "N" word is "just for gang-bangers" and thus not necessarily offensive, as you cite in your post.  It's disingenuous and not terribly clever to parade "fag," "gay," and other examples of English evolving to try to justify using contemptible epithets.  (And woe be it to anyone whose epitaph read that he or she was a user of racial epithets . . . ).   Ignoring Tony would be easy, I'll grant.  But it's necessary that the filth and hatred contained in his words  be exposed,  be examined, and  be challenged.  You appear to be someone who can do that eloquently and with insight, Walter, and I'm sorry to lose you.And yes, I fully expect to be publicly excoriated by the erudite Mr. Simpson.  I'd care more, but dang -- I have to sweep up cat litter now, knowing that what I find there is about as pleasant as hearing from Tony.keelyFrom: tonytime at clearwire.netTo: don.nergal at gmail.comDate: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:36:28 -0700CC: vision2020 at moscow.comSubject: Re: [Vision2020] Parting shots, fired high

Dear Mr. Timid, Thanks for acknowledging that my 
participation in this forum is not un-American after all.  Glad we resolved 
that wrenching question.  As to my determination to force my beliefs down 
other's throats, I simply feel that you do not have the right force your view 
down our throats: that innocent children should be ripped in pieces from their 
mother's womb.  For Christ's sake, Mr. hide in the shadows, which view is 
more compassionate?  Life for the innocent, or death at your whim?  
You people are utterly mad!

Apparently unsatisfied to reveal yourself as an 
insensitive enabler of the culture of death, you then go on to accuse me of 
redefining racial "epitaphs."  One wonders, surely you meant 
epithets?  You cannot grasp how one could resent murderous bomb-throwers 
and then insult them without having ill will toward any race in 
particular.  Why must one's use of RAGHEAD or any other term, for that 
matter, be viewed from one particular angle of meaning when the English 
language evolves regularly?  Gay used to mean happy and carefree, now it 
means homosexual.  Fag once referred to a cigarette, now, well....  
You can see how the meaning of terms takes on different meanings over 
time.  Why am I not allowed to participate in the evolution of 
language?  You folks have been writing Newspeak for decades.  What's 
the matter Mr. Timid?  Can't take any of your own medicine?

As for my comparison of Nick Gier to Josef 
Mengele:  Given Gier's whacked out pronouncements which have consistently 
revealed him to be an intellectual mutant, devoid of a soul, I STAND FIRMLY BY 
MY CHARGE.

And YOU sir, need to cope with the first amendment 
and GET OVER IT!

With the courage to sign my name,

TONY

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  Walter 
  Smith 
  To: vision2020 at moscow.com 
  Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 9:46 
AM
  Subject: [Vision2020] Parting shots
  First, I want to again say thank you to those willing to 
  participate in this forum, and for the welcome I have received from most, 
  despite the "drive-by posting" nature of my own recent semi-participation. 
  Your taking part in this forum, despite the personal dangers, is courageous 
  and demonstrates that there may still be hope for democracy. Thank you Debi, 
  in particular, for staying with it, even after facing the indignities some on 
  here are willing to hurl your way. Despite this, I do not believe I will 
  actively participate, for a number of reasons. I do not feel comfortable 
  posting here under my own name (nor do I believe it would be appropriate for 
  me to do so, at this time), but I dislike anonymous bomb-throwing. My reason 
  for posting here in the first place was anger, anger in particular at the 
  recent treatment afforded Mr. Johnson and Mr. Butler. In all truth, the only 
  reaction I have to much of what takes place on vision2020 is anger, and anger 
  is not something I need to promote in myself. It isn't good for my blood 
  pressure, nor for my soul. I may from time to time reply on here again, 
  probably as some new Moscow-special-powder-keg blows up once more. I 
  was going to post some of the more offensive responses to my initial joke as a 
  sort of skin-thickness test; but decided not to, based in part on the fact 
  that the authors did not decide to make them public themselves, and that while 
  I would get some visceral pleasure watching the reactions, no real purpose 
  would be served. I also avoid it, because while intended as a jab at 
  over-sensitivity, I am about to display my own (perhaps over-) sensitivity on 
  a particular matter, and the irony would simply be too much. On to 
  that sensitivity...Mr. Simpson would like to know what exactly he said 
  that I find "disgusting and un-American", and so I will respond to him here, 
  once only. In truth, I mis-used the term "un-American," as there is really 
  little that is more American than arguing politics, particularly with the 
  vehemence Mr. Simpson demonstrates. What I meant by it is that his posts 
  generally argue a position I find diametrically opposed to the true greatness 
  of our American way. He consistently supports an administration that is 
  undermining our basic freedoms, exemplified by the recent loss of habeas 
  corpus, although there are many other examples. He supports the authoritarian 
  imposition by government force of his own personal beliefs, such as denying 
  women the right to make their own reproductive choices, denying due process to 
  those accused of terrorism, and denying homosexuals the basic human dignity of 
  marriage. He also seems to enjoy employing a favorite tactic of the 
  white-supremacist, that being the tactic of attempting to redefine racial 
  epitaphs. Tony says "raghead" only applies to terrorists, he has no problem 
  with Arabs (while also being willfully ignorant of fact that his term actually 
  targets entirely different groups); The vile hal turner says "nigger" only 
  applies to gang-bangers, he has no problem with blacks; "spic" only applies to 
  illegal immigrants, he has no problem with Mexicans; Yeah, right... More sick 
  fantasies please. These are the things I find "un-American." While I would not 
  attempt to stop them from saying what they will, their words do cost them my 
  respect. Any right you would deprive others of without due process, is 
  a right you yourself do not deserve. This is the same basic problem I have 
  with what J Ford has been saying of late.As for what amongst Mr. 
  Simpson's comments I find "disgusting", above and beyond what I have already 
  said, and the fundamental reason I have little to no respect for the man: 
  There is really only one thing, that being Mr. Simpson's comparison of Prof. 
  Gier to mengele. I tend to agree with Godwin, that anytime a comparison to 
  nazis is made, there is no longer any hope of a rational conversation. I do 
  understand that in the heat of argument, inappropriate things will be said, 
  and can certainly be forgiven, even something so base as a nazi comparison, 
  even something so evil as a comparison to mengele. But Mr. Simpson did not 
  seek forgiveness after cooling down, nor did he even recognize the evil he had 
  committed (and yes, I do consider saying what he said to be an act of evil,) 
  rather he decided to stand by his guns and reiterate his vile comparison. The 
  things the nazis did are near always beyond compare, we have thankfully not 
  seen the like for over half a century, and hopefully never will again (current 
  events, particularly the actions of our current "leaders", do give me pause, 
  however.) But the things mengele did go far beyond even typical nazi filth, he 
  was one of the greatest evils this world has ever faced, and in my opinion far 
  worse even than hitler himself. Short of the actual re-creation of his 
  atrocities (may that such a thing never comes to pass,) nothing can compare. 
  Any comparison to anything in our modern world is inappropriate, only 
  diminishes our collective memory, and serves to legitimize mengele's deeds. 
  Comparisons to serial killers, to terrorists, to dictators, to rapists, or to 
  anything else, can only weaken our understanding and our rage. To make such a 
  comparison to a person who simply supports a woman's right to make her own 
  choices (even if one were to consider such a thing murder,) is beyond 
  disgusting. Nick is not kidnapping women and vivisecting them in the name of 
  science, nor is he even performing abortions, he is simply pro-choice. Mr. 
  Simpson's words in actuality say nothing about Prof. Gier, but they do show 
  grave disrespect to those who were tortured and died at mengele's hands, 
  insult those who laid down their own lives to stop him, risk legitimizing his 
  crimes (thus putting all our descendants futures at risk,) and reveal Mr. 
  Simpson himself as a degenerate. Sincerely, and at least for now, 
  finally,Anon

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