[Vision2020] Bush or McCain: Who's Right on Torture?

[Ted Moffett]

Nick et. al.

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, I understood what you meant.

I found it amazing that McCain would make the claim that due to the recent
legislation, torture of detainees would not happen again.  McCain was a
military man who was tortured in Vietnam, I am sure you know, and he should
know as well as anyone that even if the US Congress passed very strict
legislation against torture for detainees in US custody, it would likely
happen again by some means, even if illegal.  And beyond that, the
legislation has loopholes, such as denying habeas corpus, that renders
torture less likely to be uncovered than a more strict version of the
legislation.  As I stated in the post you reference, prosecution of higher
level command in the military or CIA for war crimes involving torture would
have a serious chilling effect on torture of detainees in US custody.
McCain should know this also.  But this is almost certainly not going to
happen.

To even suggest that upper level command in the US military or CIA should
face prosecution for war crimes involving torture is to risk an
ugly personal attack, perhaps even jeopardizing personal safety.

McCain seems to be an independent minded Republican who often surprises in
taking a stand on issues opposing the Bush administration.  But then he
appears to get back on the Bush bandwagon to give the Bush administration
support, like his endorsement of the "compromise" legislation on detainee
treatment, legislation that is seriously flawed.  This is perhaps a clever
strategy to present himself as an independent minded politician, while not
taking his independence too far from the agenda of republican group
think. McCain is a US Senator from Arizona, Barry Goldwater's state, so
McCain perhaps in some ways expresses the approach of the old more varied
and independent minded Republican party that Goldwater represented.

To totally change the subject, I was surprised and pleased to hear and see
McCain in an interview announce that "we will pay a terrible price for
global warming."  Conservatives like McCain are the sort of spokespeople we
need to make this sort of warning, because he can reach the "liberal" and/or
"environmentalist" hating audience skeptical of the dire
predictions regarding global warming.

Maybe the proof of the torture of detainees rendered by the CIA to
Uzbekistan is not as solid as a Defense Dept. autopsy report, but the
extreme nature of the torture existing in what is recognized as a brutal
human rights denying regime, a regime to which the US is giving aid, is
appalling.  Some of this torture is against Uzbekistan residents, not
rendered US detainees.  I first heard of the "boiling alive" account of
Uzbekistan torture, that comes from a source with some credibility (former
UK ambassador to Uzbekistan), on KGO AM 810 from San Francisco on the Bernie
Ward show (10 PM-1 AM M-F) last year.

Bernie does one of the best politically oriented shows on the airwaves.

Also, the account of the mother from Uzbekistan who protested the horrible
torture of her son and ended up imprisoned for her efforts is heart
breaking.  Read the account if you have not here:

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0516,hentoff,63104,6.html

Like in the cold war with the Soviet Union, the US now in the "war on
terror" is willing to ally itself with and give aid to brutal regimes to
carry out its agenda, while we tell the world we overthrew a brutal dictator
in Saddam to spread democracy...I'm reminded of the picture of Rumsfeld from
the 1980s shaking hands with Saddam when giving aid to Saddam was used in
part to carry out US foreign policy against Iran.

Making deals with the devil is business as usual in the snake pit
world of international politics and policy.

Ted Moffett


On 10/1/06, nickgier at adelphia.net < nickgier at adelphia.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Ted,
>
> Thanks for pointing out that my reference to McCain was ambiguous.  I was
> using his statement to show that it directly implies that we have indeed
> tortured detainees contrary to what Bush has said.
>
> I'm revising my piece eliminating any reference to McCain.  Of course I
> agree with you that the Republican critics caved into Bush and there will be
> no guarantee that "alternative interrogation techniques" will not be
> used.  The Great Decider will decide to waterboard if he wants to.
>
> Thanks to your research, Ted, I have many more verified examples of
> torture to add to my original essay "Beheading, Hooding, and Waterboarding:
> CIA Torture in Vietnam, Latin America, and Iraq."  There is no better proof
> than a Department of Defense autopsy report.
>
> Nick Gier
>
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