[Vision2020] Martyr

[Nick Gier]

Greetings:

If Calvin had not been in Geneva, the probability of Servetus being 
arrested and burned would have been very low.  I gladly corrected my 
earlier error that Calvin lit the fire, and then challenged Ben to request 
that his father-in-law correct his errors.  Of course there was no 
reciprocity on that point, because Kirkers moved of by an unholy spirit do 
not make errors.

Yes, Calvin was not a citizen of Geneva, but as the theological head of the 
community, he always got what he wanted. Ever since Servetus had failed to 
show up for a debate on the Trinity in Paris, Calvin had been "gunning" for 
him and he made sure that he was killed for his theological 
"mistakes."  Right at the last, Calvin did plead for beheading, as Servetus 
had requested, but the city fathers knew very well that burning heretics 
alive (over a slow fire) was the only way to eliminate those of Wrong Mind 
by those who have Right Mind.

Contrary to what is posted here, Calvin could not possibly find any 
biblical justification for killing a heretic.  The New Testament punishment 
for "wrong" belief was banishment not death.  As Ralph always says: Read 
your Bibles for Heaven's Sake!

If the religious liberalism of early Unitarianism had won out, Europe would 
have been spared thousands upon thousands of lives and the massive 
destruction of farms and cities, all because of "right-minded" Christians 
killing one another.

The world had to wait 250 years for Unitarian inspired Americans to write a 
Constitution protecting people's freedom to believe or not to believe.  As 
the Episcopal Bishop Bird Wilson said in October, 1831: "Among all our 
presidents from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, 
at least not of more than Unitarianism."

>Ralph,
>
>I'm glad that you brought this back up. Both you and Nick cannot seem to 
>get the facts correct in this case (and with 37 years of accurate 
>writing). Ben Merkle pointed these things out to Nick previously. Maybe 
>Nick can post the emails on his university owned blog site.
>
>It was the city council that bbq'd Servetus. It was the city council that 
>held the trial. It was the court that found him guilty. And it was the 
>city sheriff that carried out the sentence.
>
>Calvin was only called as an expert witness at his trial. (I will get the 
>citation for his testimony later) Calvin was called to testify about what 
>constitutes heresy from a biblical perspective. Calvin was not even a 
>voting member of the magisterial.
>
>Go back to quoting scripture. Maybe you'll find one that applies to you.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nielsen at uidaho.edu
>To: heirdoug at netscape.net; sslund at adelphia.net
>Cc: ngier at uidaho.edu
>Sent: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 10:25 AM
>Subject: Martyr
>
>Doug,
>
>Are you referring to people like the Unitarian Michael Servetus, who was 
>barbecued alive by the Trinitarian John Calvin?
>
>Ralph
>
>
>[Vision2020] Quote of Interest
>
>heirdoug at netscape.net heirdoug at netscape.net
>Tue Nov 21 07:28:42 PST 2006
>
>Mrs. Lund,
>
>You forget that it also is a term of contempt for a juvenile first form
>classmate, as well as, what those who hated the truth piled at the
>martyr's feet just before they burned them at the stake!
>________________________________________________________________________
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"Truth is the summit of being; justice is the application of it to human 
affairs."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson

"Abstract truth has no value unless it incarnates in human beings who 
represent it, by proving their readiness to die for it."
  --Mohandas Gandhi

"Modern physics has taught us that the nature of any system cannot be 
discovered by dividing it into its component parts and studying each part 
by itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed on the whole and on the 
interconnection between the parts. The same is true of our intellectual 
life. It is impossible to make a clear cut between science, religion, and 
art. The whole is never equal simply to the sum of its various parts." 
--Max Planck

Nicholas F. Gier
Professor Emeritus, Department of Philosophy, University of Idaho
1037 Colt Rd., Moscow, ID 83843
http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm
208-882-9212/FAX 885-8950
President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO
http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm

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