<html>
Greetings:<br><br>
If Calvin had not been in Geneva, the probability of Servetus being
arrested and burned would have been very low. I gladly corrected my
earlier error that Calvin lit the fire, and then challenged Ben to
request that his father-in-law correct his errors. Of course there
was no reciprocity on that point, because Kirkers moved of by an unholy
spirit do not make errors.<br><br>
Yes, Calvin was not a citizen of Geneva, but as the theological head of
the community, he always got what he wanted. Ever since Servetus had
failed to show up for a debate on the Trinity in Paris, Calvin had been
"gunning" for him and he made sure that he was killed for his
theological "mistakes." Right at the last, Calvin did
plead for beheading, as Servetus had requested, but the city fathers knew
very well that burning heretics alive (over a slow fire) was the only way
to eliminate those of Wrong Mind by those who have Right Mind.<br><br>
Contrary to what is posted here, Calvin could not possibly find any
biblical justification for killing a heretic. The New Testament
punishment for "wrong" belief was banishment not death.
As Ralph always says: Read your Bibles for Heaven's Sake!<br><br>
If the religious liberalism of early Unitarianism had won out, Europe
would have been spared thousands upon thousands of lives and the massive
destruction of farms and cities, all because of "right-minded"
Christians killing one another. <br><br>
The world had to wait 250 years for Unitarian inspired Americans to write
a Constitution protecting people's freedom to believe or not to
believe. As the Episcopal Bishop Bird Wilson said in October, 1831:
"Among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a
professor of religion, at least not of more than
Unitarianism."<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Ralph,<br><br>
I'm glad that you brought this back up. Both you and Nick cannot seem to
get the facts correct in this case (and with 37 years of accurate
writing). Ben Merkle pointed these things out to Nick previously. Maybe
Nick can post the emails on his university owned blog site.<br><br>
It was the city council that bbq'd Servetus. It was the city council that
held the trial. It was the court that found him guilty. And it was the
city sheriff that carried out the sentence.<br><br>
Calvin was only called as an expert witness at his trial. (I will get the
citation for his testimony later) Calvin was called to testify about what
constitutes heresy from a biblical perspective. Calvin was not even a
voting member of the magisterial.<br><br>
Go back to quoting scripture. Maybe you'll find one that applies to
you.<br><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: nielsen@uidaho.edu<br>
To: heirdoug@netscape.net; sslund@adelphia.net<br>
Cc: ngier@uidaho.edu<br>
Sent: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 10:25 AM<br>
Subject: Martyr<br><br>
Doug,<br><br>
Are you referring to people like the Unitarian Michael Servetus, who was
barbecued alive by the Trinitarian John Calvin?<br><br>
Ralph<br><br>
<br>
[Vision2020] Quote of Interest<br><br>
heirdoug at netscape.net heirdoug at netscape.net<br>
Tue Nov 21 07:28:42 PST 2006<br><br>
Mrs. Lund,<br><br>
You forget that it also is a term of contempt for a juvenile first
form<br>
classmate, as well as, what those who hated the truth piled at the<br>
martyr's feet just before they burned them at the stake!<br>
________________________________________________________________________
<br>
________________________________________________________________________<br>
Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and
industry-leading spam and email virus protection.<br><br>
</blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<font size=2>"Truth is the summit of being; justice is the
application of it to human affairs."<br>
--Ralph Waldo Emerson<br><br>
"Abstract truth has no value unless it incarnates in human beings
who represent it, by proving their readiness to die for it."<br>
--Mohandas Gandhi<br><br>
"Modern physics has taught us that the nature of any system cannot
be discovered by dividing it into its component parts and studying each
part by itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed on the whole and on
the interconnection between the parts. The same is true of our
intellectual life. It is impossible to make a clear cut between science,
religion, and art. The whole is never equal simply to the sum of its
various parts." --Ma</font><font size=1>x Planck<br><br>
</font>Nicholas F. Gier<br>
Professor Emeritus, Department of Philosophy, University of Idaho<br>
1037 Colt Rd., Moscow, ID 83843<br>
<a href="http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm" eudora="autourl">http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm</a><br>
208-882-9212/FAX 885-8950<br>
President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO<br>
<a href="http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm" eudora="autourl">http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm</a><br><br>
</html>