[Vision2020] Former U of I Professor Witnessed Hiroshima, Nagasaki Blasts

[Ted Moffett]

All:

The fact Nagasaki was atom bombed three days after Hiroshima blows a hole in
the theory the atom bombing of Japan had as its primary goal the overall
reduction in war casualties.  This has been studied up down left right and
every which way, and it is difficult to understand why there was not a
longer waiting period for the Japanese to fully comprehend what had happened
in Hiroshima, before bombing another major Japanese city a mere three days
later, except that there were other rationales for wanting to use the Atom
bomb beyond forcing a Japanese surrender, suitable to the Allies, to avoid
massive casualties in taking Japan.

And what might these rationales have been?  Revenge, for one, a motivation
that some consider prominent in the carpet bombing of Dresden in Germany in
the later days of WWII, killing tens of thousands of civilians, when Germany
was also on its last legs, when bombing Dresden was militarily not
necessary, according to many experts.  Or rather, a way of sending a message
to any other nation who dared to attack the USA that this is what they would
face.  Two, a demonstration specifically to the Soviet Union, the USA's
major military threat at that time, of the capability and willingness of the
US to use the atom bomb on heavily civilian urban areas.  Three, a test of
the capabilities of the atom bomb on a real world "military" target, a kind
of test difficult to simulate.

Consider that conventional bombing in WWII killed more people than the atom
bombs on Japan.  The US could have destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki with
conventional carpet bombing runs, as in Dresden, if they wanted.  Tokyo had
already been fire bombed by the US killing between 80,000-200,000. Why was
this approach not used this to force a surrender, avoiding the long term
horrors of radiation sickness and poisoning for the civilian population?
Indeed, with conventional bombing Japan could have been nearly entirely
destroyed to force a surrender before sending ground troops.

Fire bombing of Tokyo info:

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/tokyo.htm
--------------------------
Former U of I Physics professor Lawrence Johnston was a scientific observer
aboard observation aircrafts conducting measurements during the Hiroshima
and Nagasaki blasts.  According to the National Academy of Sciences,
Johnston is the only person to have witnessed the Trinity, Hiroshima and
Nagasaki explosions.

Read about it here on page 4:

http://www7.nationalacademies.org/cisac/Trinity_BIOs.pdf

-------
Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett




 *LAWRENCE JOHNSTON *
 At Los Alamos, Dr. *Johnston* led a team responsible for the ultra-fast
detonators needed for
 implosion bombs. For the bombs detonated in *Japan*, he was part of the
team tasked with
 measuring *bomb* energy yields. Dr. *Johnston* is the only person to have
witnessed the Trinity,
 Hiroshima and *Nagasaki* explosions.
 Dr. *Johnston* received his undergraduate degree from the University of
California, Berkeley in
 1940. From 1940 to 1943, Dr. *Johnston* was at the MIT Radiation Laboratory
where he and Luis
 Alvarez invented the Ground-Controlled-Approach radar landing system which
made it possible
 for people on the ground to talk pilots in for a safe landing. That radar
system helped the Allies
 win World War II and made the Berlin Airlift possible. He spent the next
two years at Los
 Alamos where he developed exploding bridge-wire detonators for coordinated
timing in
 implosion bombs. After the war, he completed his doctoral degree at
Berkeley in 1950. He then
 moved to the University of Minnesota for a decade where he helped build a
linear accelerator.
 He spent a few years at the Aerospace Corp and at the Stanford Linear
Accelerator Center
 before joining the faculty of the Department of Physics at the University
of *Idaho* in 1967 where
 he remained until his retirement in 1988. His research interests included
nuclear physics, far
 ------------------------------
  *Page 5*
 infrared lasers, and molecular spectroscopy. Dr. *Johnston* is a fellow of
the American Physical
 Society.
 *ARNOLD KRAMISH *
 At Los Alamos, Kramish was responsible for the simultaneity of the
detonators over the entire
 sphere of the implosion *bomb*.
 Kramish received his undergraduate degree from the University of Denver and
his Masters from
 Harvard University. He was with the Manhattan Project from 1944 to 1946 as
a member of the
 Special Engineering Division (SED). He was the third member of the team
present during an
 explosion at an experimental uranium enrichment facility at the
Philadelphia Navy Yard, which
 killed Douglas Meigs and Peter Bragg. Following the war, he was with the
Atomic Energy
 Commission. In 1951, he became a senior staff member of the RAND
corporation. From 1970
 to 1976, he was posted in Paris as U.S. Science & Technology Counselor for
UNESCO and
 OECD. During the Reagan administration, we was technical director of a
White House study on
 the Strategic Defense Initiative and advisor to the Undersecretary of
Defense for Policy. He has
 been a Carnegie fellow on the Council for Foreign Relations and a
Guggenheim fellow. He is a
 technical consultant and author of several books, including *The Griffin*.
Currently Mr. Kramish is
 working on his memoirs.
 *LOUIS ROSEN *
 At Los Alamos, Dr. Rosen worked on the technology of assembling materials
with sufficient
 rapidity to surmount the problem of pre-detonation. He also investigated
the attenuation of
 electromagnetic signals by high explosives.
 Dr. Rosen received his undergraduate and master's degree from the
University of Alabama and
 a doctoral degree from Pennsylvania State University. He joined Los Alamos
in 1944. After the
 war, Dr. Rosen divided his time between basic research in nuclear physics
and national defense
 activities. At Los Alamos, he held various positions from group leader to
division leader and
 director of the Meson Physics Facility (LAMPF). He is currently Senior
Laboratory Fellow
 Emeritus. Dr. Rosen has also served on several advisory boards to the
federal government on
 the management and goals of scientific research. He has also served on
health-related public
 service committees in New Mexico. He is a fellow of the American Physical
Society and of the
 American Association of the Advancement of Science. He has received the
Guggenheim
 Fellowship and the E.O. Lawrence award. In 1997, Los Alamos dedicated the
Louis Rosen
 Auditorium and in 2003, Dr. Rosen received the Los Alamos National Lab
medal.
 *MAURICE SHAPIRO *
 At Los Alamos, Dr. Shapiro was the leader of a group in the Ordnance
Division. He also
 collaborated with John von Neumann on a hydrodynamics problem.
 Born in Jerusalem, as an Ottoman subject, Maurice Shapiro became a British
citizen at the age
 of four, then an American at six. At the University of Chicago he studied
physics with Arthur
 Compton, Enrico Fermi, Bruno Rossi, and John Wheeler. While group leader in
wartime Los
 Alamos, he lobbied for the international control of atomic energy after the
war, serving in 1946
 as Chair of the Association of Los Alamos Scientists. In Oak Ridge he
mentored Adm.
 Rickover's first nuclear submariners, and designed a power reactor (the
prototype of
 Shippingport). In 1949 he founded a cosmic-ray laboratory at the Naval
Research Lab,
 Washington, where he and collaborators elucidated the composition of the
cosmic rays, and
 established a "Rosetta Stone" revealing their transformations in
interstellar space. They derived
 ------------------------------
  *Page 6*
 the source composition and "age" of the Galactic cosmic rays. Shapiro
co-discovered the sigma
 hyperon. In 1977 he founded the International School of Cosmic-ray
Astrophysics in Erice, Italy
 where he still serves as Director. Shapiro has been Visiting *Professor* at
the University of
 Maryland since 1985.
 *RUBBY SHERR *
 At Los Alamos, Dr. Sherr worked in the Initiator Group under the leadership
of Charles
 Critchfield, designing the trigger used with the plutonium *bomb* at
Trinity. A more sophisticated
 design, which used the outgoing rebound rather than the incoming shock to
initiate a neutron
 burst, was developed in collaboration with Klaus Fuchs.
 Dr. Sherr received his undergraduate degree from NYU in 1934 and his
doctoral degree from
 Princeton University in 1938. He was at Harvard University from 1938 to
1942 and then at the
 MIT Radiation Lab from 1942 to 1944. He spent two years at Los Alamos
before joining the
 faculty in the Department of Physics at Princeton. He taught and conducted
research in nuclear
 physics for thirty six years and is now *Professor* Emeritus. He currently
lives in Haverford, PA,
 and is continuing his research in collaboration with Prof. H. T. Fortune of
the University of
 Pennsylvania.
 *DAVID HOLLOWAY *
 David Holloway is the Raymond A. Spruance *Professor* in International
History and *Professor* of
 Political Science at Stanford University, and Senior Fellow at the Stanford
Institute for
 International Studies. He was born in Dublin, Ireland, and received his
undergraduate degree in
 Modern Languages and Literature and his Ph.D. in Social and Political
Sciences from
 Cambridge University. His publications include *Stalin and the Bomb: The
Soviet Union and *
 *Atomic Energy, 1939-1956*, (Yale University Press 1994), *The Soviet Union
and the Arms Race*
 (1983), and (with Sidney Drell and Philip Farley) *The Reagan Strategic
Defense Initiative: *
 *Technical, Political and Arms Control Assessment *(1984). At Stanford he
has been co-director
 of the Center for International Security and Cooperation and director of
the Stanford Institute for
 International Studies.
 *JOHN HOLDREN *
 John P. Holdren is Director of the Woods Hole Research Center; Teresa and
John Heinz
 *Professor* of Environmental Policy and Director of the Program on Science,
Technology, and
 Public Policy at the John F. Kennedy School of Government; *Professor* of
Environmental
 Science and Public Policy in the Department of Earth and Planetary Sciences
at Harvard
 University; and president-elect of the American Association for the
Advancement of Science. Dr.
 Holdren was trained in engineering and physics at MIT and Stanford but has
devoted most of
 his professional attention for the past 35 years to interdisciplinary
studies of energy,
 environment, and arms control. He co-founded in 1973 and co-led until 1996
the
 interdisciplinary graduate program in Energy and Resources at the
University of California,
 Berkeley. His research and teaching at Harvard since 1996 have focused on
causes and
 consequences of global climate change, challenges and opportunities with
advanced energy
 technologies, and international cooperation to address problems of
environment, development,
 and international security. Dr. Holdren is a member of the National Academy
of Engineering as
 well as the National Academy of Sciences. He was Chair of the Committee on
International
 Security and Arms Control in the National Academy of Sciences from 1993 to
2004 and has
 chaired several other committees in the Academy complex. Dr. Holdren was
also a member of
 President Clinton's Committee of Advisors on Science and Technology (PCAST)
from 1994 to
 2001 and chaired several PCAST reports.
 *LAWRENCE JOHNSTON *
 At Los Alamos, Dr. *Johnston* led a team responsible for the ultra-fast
detonators needed for
 implosion bombs. For the bombs detonated in *Japan*, he was part of the
team tasked with
 measuring *bomb* energy yields. Dr. *Johnston* is the only person to have
witnessed the Trinity,
 Hiroshima and *Nagasaki* explosions.
 Dr. *Johnston* received his undergraduate degree from the University of
California, Berkeley in
 1940. From 1940 to 1943, Dr. *Johnston* was at the MIT Radiation Laboratory
where he and Luis
 Alvarez invented the Ground-Controlled-Approach radar landing system which
made it possible
 for people on the ground to talk pilots in for a safe landing. That radar
system helped the Allies
 win World War II and made the Berlin Airlift possible. He spent the next
two years at Los
 Alamos where he developed exploding bridge-wire detonators for coordinated
timing in
 implosion bombs. After the war, he completed his doctoral degree at
Berkeley in 1950. He then
 moved to the University of Minnesota for a decade where he helped build a
linear accelerator.
 He spent a few years at the Aerospace Corp and at the Stanford Linear
Accelerator Center
 before joining the faculty of the Department of Physics at the University
of *Idaho* in 1967 where
 he remained until his retirement in 1988. His research interests included
nuclear physics, far
 ------------------------------
  *Page 5*
 infrared lasers, and molecular spectroscopy. Dr. *Johnston* is a fellow of
the American Physical
 Society.
 *ARNOLD KRAMISH *
 At Los Alamos, Kramish was responsible for the simultaneity of the
detonators over the entire
 sphere of the implosion *bomb*.
 Kramish received his undergraduate degree from the University of Denver and
his Masters from
 Harvard University. He was with the Manhattan Project from 1944 to 1946 as
a member of the
 Special Engineering Division (SED). He was the third member of the team
present during an
 explosion at an experimental uranium enrichment facility at the
Philadelphia Navy Yard, which
 killed Douglas Meigs and Peter Bragg. Following the war, he was with the
Atomic Energy
 Commission. In 1951, he became a senior staff member of the RAND
corporation. From 1970
 to 1976, he was posted in Paris as U.S. Science & Technology Counselor for
UNESCO and
 OECD. During the Reagan administration, we was technical director of a
White House study on
 the Strategic Defense Initiative and advisor to the Undersecretary of
Defense for Policy. He has
 been a Carnegie fellow on the Council for Foreign Relations and a
Guggenheim fellow. He is a
 technical consultant and author of several books, including *The Griffin*.
Currently Mr. Kramish is
 working on his memoirs.
 *LOUIS ROSEN *
 At Los Alamos, Dr. Rosen worked on the technology of assembling materials
with sufficient
 rapidity to surmount the problem of pre-detonation. He also investigated
the attenuation of
 electromagnetic signals by high explosives.
 Dr. Rosen received his undergraduate and master's degree from the
University of Alabama and
 a doctoral degree from Pennsylvania State University. He joined Los Alamos
in 1944. After the
 war, Dr. Rosen divided his time between basic research in nuclear physics
and national defense
 activities. At Los Alamos, he held various positions from group leader to
division leader and
 director of the Meson Physics Facility (LAMPF). He is currently Senior
Laboratory Fellow
 Emeritus. Dr. Rosen has also served on several advisory boards to the
federal government on
 the management and goals of scientific research. He has also served on
health-related public
 service committees in New Mexico. He is a fellow of the American Physical
Society and of the
 American Association of the Advancement of Science. He has received the
Guggenheim
 Fellowship and the E.O. Lawrence award. In 1997, Los Alamos dedicated the
Louis Rosen
 Auditorium and in 2003, Dr. Rosen received the Los Alamos National Lab
medal.
 *MAURICE SHAPIRO *
 At Los Alamos, Dr. Shapiro was the leader of a group in the Ordnance
Division. He also
 collaborated with John von Neumann on a hydrodynamics problem.
 Born in Jerusalem, as an Ottoman subject, Maurice Shapiro became a British
citizen at the age
 of four, then an American at six. At the University of Chicago he studied
physics with Arthur
 Compton, Enrico Fermi, Bruno Rossi, and John Wheeler. While group leader in
wartime Los
 Alamos, he lobbied for the international control of atomic energy after the
war, serving in 1946
 as Chair of the Association of Los Alamos Scientists. In Oak Ridge he
mentored Adm.
 Rickover's first nuclear submariners, and designed a power reactor (the
prototype of
 Shippingport). In 1949 he founded a cosmic-ray laboratory at the Naval
Research Lab,
 Washington, where he and collaborators elucidated the composition of the
cosmic rays, and
 established a "Rosetta Stone" revealing their transformations in
interstellar space. They derived
 ------------------------------
  *Page 6*
 the source composition and "age" of the Galactic cosmic rays. Shapiro
co-discovered the sigma
 hyperon. In 1977 he founded the International School of Cosmic-ray
Astrophysics in Erice, Italy
 where he still serves as Director. Shapiro has been Visiting *Professor* at
the University of
 Maryland since 1985.
 *RUBBY SHERR *
 At Los Alamos, Dr. Sherr worked in the Initiator Group under the leadership
of Charles
 Critchfield, designing the trigger used with the plutonium *bomb* at
Trinity. A more sophisticated
 design, which used the outgoing rebound rather than the incoming shock to
initiate a neutron
 burst, was developed in collaboration with Klaus Fuchs.
 Dr. Sherr received his undergraduate degree from NYU in 1934 and his
doctoral degree from
 Princeton University in 1938. He was at Harvard University from 1938 to
1942 and then at the
 MIT Radiation Lab from 1942 to 1944. He spent two years at Los Alamos
before joining the
 faculty in the Department of Physics at Princeton. He taught and conducted
research in nuclear
 physics for thirty six years and is now *Professor* Emeritus. He currently
lives in Haverford, PA,
 and is continuing his research in collaboration with Prof. H. T. Fortune of
the University of
 Pennsylvania.
 *DAVID HOLLOWAY *
 David Holloway is the Raymond A. Spruance *Professor* in International
History and *Professor* of
 Political Science at Stanford University, and Senior Fellow at the Stanford
Institute for
 International Studies. He was born in Dublin, Ireland, and received his
undergraduate degree in
 Modern Languages and Literature and his Ph.D. in Social and Political
Sciences from
 Cambridge University. His publications include *Stalin and the Bomb: The
Soviet Union and *
 *Atomic Energy, 1939-1956*, (Yale University Press 1994), *The Soviet Union
and the Arms Race*
 (1983), and (with Sidney Drell and Philip Farley) *The Reagan Strategic
Defense Initiative: *
 *Technical, Political and Arms Control Assessment *(1984). At Stanford he
has been co-director
 of the Center for International Security and Cooperation and director of
the Stanford Institute for
 International Studies.
 *JOHN HOLDREN *
 John P. Holdren is Director of the Woods Hole Research Center; Teresa and
John Heinz
 *Professor* of Environmental Policy and Director of the Program on Science,
Technology, and
 Public Policy at the John F. Kennedy School of Government; *Professor* of
Environmental
 Science and Public Policy in the Department of Earth and Planetary Sciences
at Harvard
 University; and president-elect of the American Association for the
Advancement of Science. Dr.
 Holdren was trained in engineering and physics at MIT and Stanford but has
devoted most of
 his professional attention for the past 35 years to interdisciplinary
studies of energy,
 environment, and arms control. He co-founded in 1973 and co-led until 1996
the
 interdisciplinary graduate program in Energy and Resources at the
University of California,
 Berkeley. His research and teaching at Harvard since 1996 have focused on
causes and
 consequences of global climate change, challenges and opportunities with
advanced energy
 technologies, and international cooperation to address problems of
environment, development,
 and international security. Dr. Holdren is a member of the National Academy
of Engineering as
 well as the National Academy of Sciences. He was Chair of the Committee on
International
 Security and Arms Control in the National Academy of Sciences from 1993 to
2004 and has
 chaired several other committees in the Academy complex. Dr. Holdren was
also a member of
 President Clinton's Committee of Advisors on Science and Technology (PCAST)
from 1994 to
 2001 and chaired several PCAST reports.


On 11/14/06, Matt Decker <mattd2107 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Andreas,
>
> Inarguable? Why did our generals predict Millions of casualties then, if
> the
> Japanese would surrender, like they did so much during that war. I mean
> Iwo
> 4-10 people out of 30,000 surrendered. Maybe and just maybe they might
> have,
> but a full blown invasion was in the works. I believe without the bomb it
> would have gone threw, thus resulting in thousands upon thousands of
> American and Japanese maimed wounded and dead.
>
> I hope it never happens again, but did it save lives? YES!
>
> Matt
>
>
> >From: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>
> >To: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
> >CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Tony Simpsom Shills for Terrorists Yet Again!
> >Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:21:32 -0800
> >
> > > Think what you want but Ill agree with history and our generals who
> won
> >that
> > > war.
> >
> >Like Eisenhower, who wrote, in his memoir, "In 1945 Secretary of War
> >Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our
> >government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of
> >those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question
> >the wisdom of such an act. During his recitation of the relevant
> >facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced
> >to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan
> >was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely
> >unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should
> >avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment
> >was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American
> >lives."
> >
> >Or Curtis LeMay, who argued that the bomb "had nothing to do with the
> >end of the war?"
> >
> >Or Chester Nimitz, who, in October of 1945, argued that the Japanese
> >had already been soundly beaten before the bombs were dropped?
> >
> >Or Douglas MacArthur, who said, after the war, that there was "[...]
> >no military justification for the dropping of the bomb. The war might
> >have ended weeks earlier [...] if the United States had agreed, as it
> >later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the emperor."
> >
> >As far as the decision to drop the bomb goes, it was entirely
> >uninformed by the military. The supreme commander was against it, the
> >head of the Army Air Force was against it, the admiral of the Pacific
> >Fleet was against it, and the Joint Chiefs were not consulted. While
> >it's inarguable that dropping the atomic bomb sped along the Japanese
> >surrender, it's also inarguable that they would have surrendered
> >anyway, and without the deaths of Japanese civilians, American POWs,
> >and Korean slave laborers.
> >
> >-- ACS
> >
> >=======================================================
> >  List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >                http://www.fsr.net
> >           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >=======================================================
>
>
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