[Vision2020]Who's most vocal? (was Zoning Law &FreewheelingCapitalism)

Thu Jan 12 08:57:34 PST 2006

Phil, et al,

You are right about the attitudes of families that have been here for a long time.  Each place has its own defining limits.

When I moved back permanently to Boundary County in 1981, the rule was:  "You are a newcomer unless you saw the '48 flood.  Luckily for me, I did.  Hence, that mere fact opened a lot of doors and networks which normally would have been closed to me.

However well it worked for me, it still was mostly blind prejudice.  It is important for anyone to understand the history and past development of the area they are living in, but the fact they are a newcomer is not the sole or even an important criterion upon which to judge them.

Often in the 1980s in Boundary County, the first question an "old-timer" would ask a person the first time they met them was "How long have you been in these parts?"  The answer to that question often largely determined the direction the relationship took.  At one county commission meeting a petition was presented to the commissioners with 140 signatures.  The chairperson (a real "old-timer") carefully read all the names, said "I don't recognize any of these names.  They's all newcomers." and then threw the petition into the wastepaper basket.

Hopefully, that kind of attitude is dying out, though I know there are parts of Benewah and eastern Kootenai Counties were it is still alive and kicking hard and where my being an Idaho resident more than 50 years ago causes the "old-timers" to accept me and what I say much easier.

Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
deco at moscow.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
To: <starbliss at gmail.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 4:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020]Who's most vocal? (was Zoning Law &FreewheelingCapitalism)

> Ted
> 
> You hit the ultimate Idaho problem with a hammer.
> 
> My family’s bones are buried in other parts of the state (some back before 
> it even was a state) yet each town in Idaho has its own pecking order for 
> what is considered an old timer.  Hence, a Rob Lemke, who was born in 
> Moscow, but raised in Potlatch and moved to Boise to work for the State gets 
> called an outsider by a transplant from overseas who moved here about the 
> time Rob took a job in Boise a quarter century ago.
> 
> You yourself are stating that recent arrivals have a different attitude than 
> you do and hark back to 1965 as a magical year.  I have no doubt you see 
> yourself as an old timer, which means you categorize those with less time 
> here as newbie’s.  That ought to give you a taste for the sense that those 
> who have four or five generations buried here have about those who arrived 
> any time in the last five decades.  Its one of the charms of our Idaho 
> insularity, a pecking order that is ingrained in soil.
> 
> Phil Nisbet
> 
> 
> 
>>From: Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
>>To: "Area Man (Dan C)" <areaman at moscow.com>
>>CC: vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020]Who's most vocal? (was Zoning Law & 
>>FreewheelingCapitalism)
>>Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 00:39:51 -0800
>>
>>Dan et. al.
>>
>>How long does someone need to live in Moscow or the Palouse to be 
>>considered
>>an "old timer," in your opinion?  I guess you think 20 years is not enough?
>>Then is it 30, 40, 50 years?
>>
>>Do you really think the "transplants" are chasing the "old timers" out of
>>town?  That's a strong statement.  I think some accurate facts are needed 
>>to
>>back that up.  I don't think many "transplants" would like this view of
>>their impact.
>>
>>It would be interesting to attempt to survey the "transplants" to really
>>find out if they think development in the Moscow area is too much or OK.  I
>>know people who are new to the area who think that those who complain about
>>the increase in traffic, etc. to be laughable, when they compare Moscow to
>>Boston, etc. It's a relative issue, I guess.  I can compare Moscow's 
>>current
>>traffic to 1965 when I first walked the streets of this "little" town, and 
>>I
>>personally don't like the increase in traffic, among other changes growth 
>>is
>>bringing.
>>
>>I like to joke with a friend of mine in Boise that I am going to move to
>>Boise to escape all the traffic up here!  But really I am not totally
>>joking.  I expect traffic and big development in Boise, but I have no
>>reference point for how Boise was 50 years ago, or not a very personal
>>heartfelt reference point.  But I do have such a reference point for 
>>Moscow.
>>
>>"All Things Must Pass," as the late great George Harrison sang on his 
>>double
>>solo album of the same title.
>>
>>Ted Moffett
>>
>>On 1/9/06, Area Man (Dan C) <areaman at moscow.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Ted said:
>> > "The growth in population will fuel an increasing mentality that does
>> > not even know about or care about what is being lost, when people with
>> > money move to the Palouse from much bigger uglier cities, who will think
>> > that the older locals who complain about too much unmanaged or ugly
>> > development compromising the quality of life, are so quaint."
>> >
>> > I have found that a lot of people who are most vocal against "unmanaged
>> > or ugly development compromising the quality of life" are not older
>> > locals, but transplants.  Yes, there are some  who are vocal that have
>> > been here their entire lives, but most have not.  I'm not saying that
>> > unmanaged development is good, I'm just expressing my opinion about who
>> > is most vocal about it (or anything else, for that matter).  Part of
>> > that reason is that the transplants are so vocal and good at making
>> > changes that it is chasing the old timers out of town.
>> >
>> > Moving to town 20 years ago doesn't make you an old timer.  Definitely
>> > not an old timer like that ol' fart John Weber.
>> >
>> > DC
>> >
>> > P.S.  I like John, it's just been a few months since the campaign, and
>> > he probably misses me poking fun at him.  Although, since he is a
>> > technophobe, he won't see this anyway.
>> >
>> > _____________________________________________________
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>> >
> 
> 
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