[Vision2020] Line and 6th
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Tue Aug 22 18:49:46 PDT 2006
I think those particular intersections work well because there are no
turn lanes. There's a big difference between crossing a two-lane versus
a three-lane street. Because of the added complexity involved at such
an intersection and the added time to cross due to the number of lanes I
think that a traffic light would be more appropriate. Perhaps it could
be on sensors so it's a straight run through for Mountain View when
noone is at the intersection.
I do think that a four-way stop would be better than not having one in
the mean time. Drivers are more willing to let pedestrians cross when
they are stopped than when they are moving.
Paul
J Ford wrote:
> What PROOF do you have that a 4-way has CAUSED accidents?
>
> The 4-way at Blaine and 6th, D and Hayes, 6th and Line, Blaine and
> White, and the new ones on campus, etc. have all worked well, have
> proven that they provide safety and several of those did not follow
> warrant criteria that "allowed" them to be put in by City Staff.
>
> The City Council did the right thing last night and at least is
> attempting to fix a problem and potential liability issue by approving
> the 4-way stop at D and Mt. View. They did so out of concern for the
> children *and* the drivers of Moscow.
>
>
> J :]
>
>
>
>
>
>> From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>> To: Art Deco <deco at moscow.com>, Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Line and 6th
>> Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 08:41:30 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>> I think Wayne is operating under the assumption that a four way stop
>> would necessarily increase safety. I don't think that is the proved
>> case.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> _DJA
>>
>> Art Deco <deco at moscow.com> wrote: One problem at the center
>> of this issue is the value question of which is more important: The
>> risk to pedestrian (and vehicular) safety or increased vehicular
>> throughput.
>>
>> When I was very young, I lived in an area where safety was given a
>> very high priority. This commitment was backed by signage and LEO
>> enforcement with citations. Perhaps now more people are more
>> "me-oriented" with a higher concern for completing their tasks in a
>> given time period than they are about the safety and activities of
>> others. Have our values changed so that for many the importance of
>> safety at D and Mountain View (and other risky intersections) is not
>> a big concern for many.
>>
>> The crosswalk near Tri-State continues being a problem. Yesterday
>> a very visible pedestrian was almost hit by a motorist who
>> apparently decided that if he honked his horn it was alright to
>> speed through the crosswalk.
>>
>> Because of the construction there is more traffic on Main through
>> downtown. Pedestrians need to be aware of the increased peril by
>> impatient drivers.
>>
>> Part of this issue may also related to having a blasé city manager
>> who does not live in the city, hence does not make the observations
>> the residents do, does not seem to care as much as some residents
>> do, and does not have to face the comments of his neighbors about
>> the city when he goes home.
>>
>> W.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Rumelhart
>> To: Vision 2020
>> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 3:46 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Line and 6th
>>
>>
>>
>> I'd also like to add that most drivers on the UI Campus are aware
>> that students will be at the crosswalks and that they should stop
>> for them. Campus is seen as a pedestrian-centered area, probably
>> because of the habits the students have of just blindly walking into
>> the intersections. This is how they've been taught through
>> experience. At Mountain View and D streets, you're on a 35 mph road
>> which many people think of as a road that is more traffic-centered
>> than pedestrian-centered, although they should be thinking of it as
>> the opposite at that intersection. There are also turn lanes at
>> that intersection, making the crossing distance greater.
>>
>> I'm behind the idea of a light there, it would be safer for
>> everybody. I understand that there are costs involved, but with the
>> Junior High, the elementary school, and the water park there, I
>> think it would be a lot safer.
>>
>> As someone else posted, I think a four-way stop for now while a
>> grant is being worked on would be a good place to start. I also
>> like the idea of getting some more numbers tallied on the subject,
>> but you have to do more than just maximize throughput. You have to
>> maximise safety for the children even at the expense of driving
>> time. Especially there. In my opinion, anyway.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Donovan Arnold wrote: What are you people on crack? Line and 6th
>> (a three way, not four way stop) is backed up for blocks several
>> times a day. Cars are half way to Deakin every time I go through
>> there. And college students don't all get out off classes at exactly
>> the same time like they do on Mt. View and D. I don't use that
>> road. But I think people will be very upset if a four way stop is
>> placed on that intersection instead of a stop light. Letting 20 cars
>> go at a time is much faster then one at a time, and safer.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> _DJA
>>
>> Art Deco <deco at moscow.com> wrote: How do we
>> know that a four-way stop at Mountain View and D will clog traffic
>> for blocks? Do you have access to traffic studies and the
>> engineered conclusions drawn from them the rest of us are ignorant of?
>>
>> There are several busy intersections with four-way stops that
>> function fine without clogging traffic for blocks: Blaine and 6th,
>> Blaine and White, Hayes and D, Line and 6th (although this can back
>> up traffic for about one block on the east side at peak times, but
>> no big deal), A and Line, are a few examples.
>>
>> W.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Donovan
>> Arnold
>> To: roger hayes ; vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:22 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Mountain View and D
>>
>>
>>
>> I am not for a stop sign on Mountain and D. I am however, for a
>> stop light. A four way stop will have Mountain View and D street
>> clogged for blocks. That will force more people into taking
>> alternative routes speeding through neighborhood streets and down
>> 6th Street (when and if that road ever reopens).
>>
>> It sounds logical to put a four way stop there. But I think the
>> volume of traffic is great and this will create greater problems on
>> that corner and elsewhere in town. How much longer does it take for
>> four cars to come to a stop, then go one at a time? Multiply that by
>> the number of cars, if will a good 10-15 minutes longer to across
>> town on that section of road.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> _DJA
>>
>> roger hayes <rhayes at turbonet.com> wrote: > A
>> timed light is an improvement, but kids and walkers cross that
>> > intersection from dawn to way past dark. The problem does
>> not just
>> > occur during the morning and afternoon. A stop sign would be
>> a cheap,
>> > effective way to slow the traffic enough so drivers would
>> be more
>> > aware of children and pedestrians in the crosswalk. We'd
>> probably want
>> > to leave the blinking yellow light though.
>>
>> Roger Hayes
>>
>> >
>> >> I think the city has viewed Mt. View as an arterial for
>> the increasing
>> >> numbers of houses on the outskirts of Moscow.
>> >> As a person who frequently crosses this intersection on
>> foot and by
>> >> bicycle, I think a 4 way stop sign at D and Mt. View is a
>> good idea
>> >> indeed. People tend to really zip through that area. It
>> will, however,
>> >> change the nature of Mt. View from commuting arterial to
>> urban street.
>> >> But given all the schools, the pool, and rec. centers in
>> the area, the
>> >> change will not be a bad thing.
>> >
>> > Roger Hayes
>> >
>> >> From: cynthia nichols
>> >> To: Bruce and Jean Livingston
>> >> CC: john weber , Nancy Chaney
>> >> ,
>> >> bill lambert , Vision 2020
>> >> , Robert Stout ,
>> >> john dickinson
>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Public Works Meeting
>> >> Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 07:27:40 -0700
>> >>
>> >> This is a good idea. No sense in making EVERYONE on
>> Mountain View
>> >> stop all day long when there is only a problem twice a
>> day. Or even
>> >> having the lights on Mtn. View blink yellow most of the
>> day and blink
>> >> red during those peak-use times.
>> >>
>> >> The city needs to require the developer to finish the
>> sidewalk on the
>> >> east side of Mountain View too-between Hillcrest and
>> Rolling Hills.
>> >>
>> >> cynthia nichols
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Aug 16, 2006, at 11:21 AM, Bruce and Jean Livingston
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Frankly, I don't understand why they don't put a
>> traffic light
>> >>> there, set it
>> >>> for blinking yellow much of the day in the Mountainview
>> direction,
>> >>> but run
>> >>> it with actual red and green alternating lights for the high
>> >>> traffic, "kid"
>> >>> times, say 7 a.m. to 9 a.m., and 2 p.m. until 4 or even 6
>> pm given
>> >>> the "kid
>> >>> use" of the athletic facilities all around that
>> intersection. The
>> >>> traffic
>> >>> back-up on D St. can be significant, and a regimented
>> crossing
>> >>> opportunity
>> >>> that an actual red light on Mountainview would provide is
>> >>> significant.
>> >>>
>> >>> Parents would also be much more likely to allow children
>> to walk to
>> >>> school
>> >>> if they had confidence in the safety of their child when
>> crossing
>> >>> Mountainview at D Street.
>> >>>
>> >>> Bruce Livingston
>> >>>
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "Craine Kit"
>> >>> To: "Vision 2020"
>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 10:21 AM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Public Works Meeting
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> Here are the photos showing the flashing lights.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Kit Craine
>>
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