[Vision2020] Line and 6th

J Ford privatejf32 at hotmail.com
Tue Aug 22 10:29:41 PDT 2006


What PROOF do you have that a 4-way has CAUSED accidents?

The 4-way at Blaine and 6th, D and Hayes, 6th and Line, Blaine and White, 
and the new ones on campus, etc. have all worked well, have proven that they 
provide safety and several of those did not follow warrant criteria that 
"allowed" them to be put in by City Staff.

The City Council did the right thing last night and at least is attempting 
to fix a problem and potential liability issue by approving the 4-way stop 
at D and Mt. View.  They did so out of concern for the children *and* the 
drivers of Moscow.


J  :]





>From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>To: Art Deco <deco at moscow.com>, Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Line and 6th
>Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 08:41:30 -0700 (PDT)
>
>I think Wayne is operating under the assumption that a four way stop  would 
>necessarily increase safety. I don't think that is the proved  case.
>
>   Best,
>
>   _DJA
>
>Art Deco <deco at moscow.com> wrote:          One  problem at the center of 
>this issue is the value question of which is  more important:  The risk to 
>pedestrian (and vehicular) safety or  increased vehicular throughput.
>
>   When  I was very young, I lived in an area where safety was given a very 
>  high priority.  This commitment was backed by signage and LEO  
>enforcement with citations.  Perhaps now more people are more  
>"me-oriented" with a higher concern for completing their tasks in a  given 
>time period than they are about the safety and activities of  others.  Have 
>our values changed so that for many the importance  of safety at D and 
>Mountain View (and other risky intersections) is not  a big concern for 
>many.
>
>   The  crosswalk near Tri-State continues being a problem.  Yesterday a  
>very visible pedestrian was almost hit by a motorist who apparently  
>decided that if he honked his horn it was alright to speed through the  
>crosswalk.
>
>   Because  of the construction there is more traffic on Main through  
>downtown.  Pedestrians need to be aware of the increased peril by  
>impatient drivers.
>
>   Part  of this issue may also related to having a blasé city manager who 
>does  not live in the city, hence does not make the observations the  
>residents do, does not seem to care as much as some residents do, and  does 
>not have to face the comments of his neighbors about the city when  he goes 
>home.
>
>   W.
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----   From: Paul Rumelhart
>   To: Vision 2020
>   Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 3:46 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Line and 6th
>
>
>
>I'd  also like to add that most drivers on the UI Campus are aware that  
>students will be at the crosswalks and that they should stop for  them.  
>Campus is seen as a pedestrian-centered area, probably  because of the 
>habits the students have of just blindly walking into  the intersections.  
>This is how they've been taught through  experience.  At Mountain View and 
>D streets, you're on a 35 mph  road which many people think of as a road 
>that is more traffic-centered  than pedestrian-centered, although they 
>should be thinking of it as the  opposite at that intersection.  There are 
>also turn lanes at that  intersection, making the crossing distance 
>greater.
>
>I'm behind  the idea of a light there, it would be safer for everybody.  I  
>understand that there are costs involved, but with the Junior High, the  
>elementary school, and the water park there, I think it would be a lot  
>safer.
>
>As someone else posted, I think a four-way stop for now  while a grant is 
>being worked on would be a good place to start.   I also like the idea of 
>getting some more numbers tallied on the  subject, but you have to do more 
>than just maximize throughput.   You have to maximise safety for the 
>children even at the expense of  driving time.  Especially there.  In my 
>opinion, anyway.
>
>Paul
>
>Donovan Arnold wrote:   What  are you people on crack? Line and 6th (a 
>three way, not four way stop)  is backed up for blocks several times a day. 
>Cars are half way to  Deakin every time I go through there. And college 
>students don't all  get out off classes at exactly the same time like they 
>do on Mt. View  and D.  I don't use that road. But I think people will be 
>very  upset if a four way stop is placed on that intersection instead of a  
>stop light. Letting 20 cars go at a time is much faster then one at a  
>time, and safer.
>
>Best,
>
>_DJA
>
>Art Deco <deco at moscow.com> wrote:                         How  do we know 
>that a four-way stop at Mountain View and D will clog  traffic for blocks?  
>Do you have access to traffic studies and the  engineered conclusions drawn 
>from them the rest of us are ignorant of?
>
>       There  are several busy intersections with four-way stops that 
>function  fine without clogging traffic for blocks:  Blaine and 6th, Blaine 
>  and White, Hayes and D, Line and 6th (although this can back up traffic  
>for about one block on the east side at peak times, but no big deal), A  
>and Line, are a few examples.
>
>       W.
>       -----       Original Message -----       From:       Donovan Arnold
>       To: roger hayes ; vision2020 at moscow.com
>       Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:22 AM
>       Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Mountain View and D
>
>
>
>I  am not for a stop sign on Mountain and D. I am however, for a stop  
>light. A four way stop will have Mountain View and D street clogged for  
>blocks. That will force more people into taking alternative routes  
>speeding through neighborhood streets and down 6th Street (when and if  
>that road ever reopens).
>
>It sounds logical to put a four way  stop there. But I think the volume of 
>traffic is great and this will  create greater problems on that corner and 
>elsewhere in town. How much  longer does it take for four cars to come to a 
>stop, then go one at a  time? Multiply that by the number of cars, if will 
>a good 10-15 minutes  longer to across town on that section of road.
>
>Best,
>
>_DJA
>
>roger hayes <rhayes at turbonet.com>       wrote:       >         A timed 
>light is an improvement, but kids and walkers cross that
> >         intersection from dawn to way past dark. The problem does not 
>just
> > occur during the morning and afternoon. A stop sign would be a         
>cheap,
> > effective way to slow the traffic enough so drivers would         be 
>more
> > aware of children and pedestrians in the crosswalk. We'd         
>probably want
> > to leave the blinking yellow light         though.
>
>Roger Hayes
>
> >
> >> I think the city has         viewed Mt. View as an arterial for the 
>increasing
> >> numbers of         houses on the outskirts of Moscow.
> >> As a person who frequently         crosses this intersection on foot 
>and by
> >> bicycle, I think a 4         way stop sign at D and Mt. View is a good 
>idea
> >> indeed. People         tend to really zip through that area. It will, 
>however,
> >> change         the nature of Mt. View from commuting arterial to urban  
>        street.
> >> But given all the schools, the pool, and rec. centers         in the 
>area, the
> >> change will not be a bad         thing.
> >
> > Roger Hayes
> >
> >> From: cynthia         nichols
> >> To: Bruce and Jean Livingston
> >> CC: john weber , Nancy Chaney
> >> ,
> >> bill lambert ,         Vision 2020
> >> , Robert Stout ,
> >> john dickinson
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Public Works         Meeting
> >> Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 07:27:40         -0700
> >>
> >> This is a good idea. No sense in making         EVERYONE on Mountain 
>View
> >> stop all day long when there is only         a problem twice a day. Or 
>even
> >> having the lights on Mtn. View         blink yellow most of the day and 
>blink
> >> red during those         peak-use times.
> >>
> >> The city needs to require the         developer to finish the sidewalk 
>on the
> >> east side of Mountain         View too-between Hillcrest and Rolling 
>Hills.
> >>
> >>         cynthia nichols
> >>
> >>
> >> On Aug 16, 2006, at         11:21 AM, Bruce and Jean Livingston wrote:
> >>
> >>>         Frankly, I don't understand why they don't put a traffic       
>   light
> >>> there, set it
> >>> for blinking yellow         much of the day in the Mountainview 
>direction,
> >>> but         run
> >>> it with actual red and green alternating lights for         the high
> >>> traffic, "kid"
> >>> times, say 7 a.m.         to 9 a.m., and 2 p.m. until 4 or even 6 pm 
>given
> >>> the         "kid
> >>> use" of the athletic facilities all around that         intersection. 
>The
> >>> traffic
> >>> back-up on D St.         can be significant, and a regimented crossing
> >>>         opportunity
> >>> that an actual red light on Mountainview would         provide is
> >>> significant.
> >>>
> >>>         Parents would also be much more likely to allow children to 
>walk         to
> >>> school
> >>> if they had confidence in the         safety of their child when 
>crossing
> >>> Mountainview at D         Street.
> >>>
> >>> Bruce         Livingston
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message         -----
> >>> From: "Craine Kit"
> >>> To: "Vision 2020"
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 10:21         AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Public Works         Meeting
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Here are the         photos showing the flashing         lights.
> >>>>
> >>>> Kit         Craine
>
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