[Vision2020] Line and 6th
Donovan Arnold
donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Tue Aug 22 12:07:22 PDT 2006
Jackie,
I never said that a 4 way stop caused accidents. I simply said that it does not necessarily prevent them for crossing school children. What PROOF do you have that they do prevent them?
_DJA
J Ford <privatejf32 at hotmail.com> wrote: What PROOF do you have that a 4-way has CAUSED accidents?
The 4-way at Blaine and 6th, D and Hayes, 6th and Line, Blaine and White,
and the new ones on campus, etc. have all worked well, have proven that they
provide safety and several of those did not follow warrant criteria that
"allowed" them to be put in by City Staff.
The City Council did the right thing last night and at least is attempting
to fix a problem and potential liability issue by approving the 4-way stop
at D and Mt. View. They did so out of concern for the children *and* the
drivers of Moscow.
J :]
>From: Donovan Arnold
>To: Art Deco , Vision 2020
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Line and 6th
>Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 08:41:30 -0700 (PDT)
>
>I think Wayne is operating under the assumption that a four way stop would
>necessarily increase safety. I don't think that is the proved case.
>
> Best,
>
> _DJA
>
>Art Deco wrote: One problem at the center of
>this issue is the value question of which is more important: The risk to
>pedestrian (and vehicular) safety or increased vehicular throughput.
>
> When I was very young, I lived in an area where safety was given a very
> high priority. This commitment was backed by signage and LEO
>enforcement with citations. Perhaps now more people are more
>"me-oriented" with a higher concern for completing their tasks in a given
>time period than they are about the safety and activities of others. Have
>our values changed so that for many the importance of safety at D and
>Mountain View (and other risky intersections) is not a big concern for
>many.
>
> The crosswalk near Tri-State continues being a problem. Yesterday a
>very visible pedestrian was almost hit by a motorist who apparently
>decided that if he honked his horn it was alright to speed through the
>crosswalk.
>
> Because of the construction there is more traffic on Main through
>downtown. Pedestrians need to be aware of the increased peril by
>impatient drivers.
>
> Part of this issue may also related to having a blasé city manager who
>does not live in the city, hence does not make the observations the
>residents do, does not seem to care as much as some residents do, and does
>not have to face the comments of his neighbors about the city when he goes
>home.
>
> W.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Rumelhart
> To: Vision 2020
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 3:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Line and 6th
>
>
>
>I'd also like to add that most drivers on the UI Campus are aware that
>students will be at the crosswalks and that they should stop for them.
>Campus is seen as a pedestrian-centered area, probably because of the
>habits the students have of just blindly walking into the intersections.
>This is how they've been taught through experience. At Mountain View and
>D streets, you're on a 35 mph road which many people think of as a road
>that is more traffic-centered than pedestrian-centered, although they
>should be thinking of it as the opposite at that intersection. There are
>also turn lanes at that intersection, making the crossing distance
>greater.
>
>I'm behind the idea of a light there, it would be safer for everybody. I
>understand that there are costs involved, but with the Junior High, the
>elementary school, and the water park there, I think it would be a lot
>safer.
>
>As someone else posted, I think a four-way stop for now while a grant is
>being worked on would be a good place to start. I also like the idea of
>getting some more numbers tallied on the subject, but you have to do more
>than just maximize throughput. You have to maximise safety for the
>children even at the expense of driving time. Especially there. In my
>opinion, anyway.
>
>Paul
>
>Donovan Arnold wrote: What are you people on crack? Line and 6th (a
>three way, not four way stop) is backed up for blocks several times a day.
>Cars are half way to Deakin every time I go through there. And college
>students don't all get out off classes at exactly the same time like they
>do on Mt. View and D. I don't use that road. But I think people will be
>very upset if a four way stop is placed on that intersection instead of a
>stop light. Letting 20 cars go at a time is much faster then one at a
>time, and safer.
>
>Best,
>
>_DJA
>
>Art Deco wrote: How do we know
>that a four-way stop at Mountain View and D will clog traffic for blocks?
>Do you have access to traffic studies and the engineered conclusions drawn
>from them the rest of us are ignorant of?
>
> There are several busy intersections with four-way stops that
>function fine without clogging traffic for blocks: Blaine and 6th, Blaine
> and White, Hayes and D, Line and 6th (although this can back up traffic
>for about one block on the east side at peak times, but no big deal), A
>and Line, are a few examples.
>
> W.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: Donovan Arnold
> To: roger hayes ; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Mountain View and D
>
>
>
>I am not for a stop sign on Mountain and D. I am however, for a stop
>light. A four way stop will have Mountain View and D street clogged for
>blocks. That will force more people into taking alternative routes
>speeding through neighborhood streets and down 6th Street (when and if
>that road ever reopens).
>
>It sounds logical to put a four way stop there. But I think the volume of
>traffic is great and this will create greater problems on that corner and
>elsewhere in town. How much longer does it take for four cars to come to a
>stop, then go one at a time? Multiply that by the number of cars, if will
>a good 10-15 minutes longer to across town on that section of road.
>
>Best,
>
>_DJA
>
>roger hayes wrote: > A timed
>light is an improvement, but kids and walkers cross that
> > intersection from dawn to way past dark. The problem does not
>just
> > occur during the morning and afternoon. A stop sign would be a
>cheap,
> > effective way to slow the traffic enough so drivers would be
>more
> > aware of children and pedestrians in the crosswalk. We'd
>probably want
> > to leave the blinking yellow light though.
>
>Roger Hayes
>
> >
> >> I think the city has viewed Mt. View as an arterial for the
>increasing
> >> numbers of houses on the outskirts of Moscow.
> >> As a person who frequently crosses this intersection on foot
>and by
> >> bicycle, I think a 4 way stop sign at D and Mt. View is a good
>idea
> >> indeed. People tend to really zip through that area. It will,
>however,
> >> change the nature of Mt. View from commuting arterial to urban
> street.
> >> But given all the schools, the pool, and rec. centers in the
>area, the
> >> change will not be a bad thing.
> >
> > Roger Hayes
> >
> >> From: cynthia nichols
> >> To: Bruce and Jean Livingston
> >> CC: john weber , Nancy Chaney
> >> ,
> >> bill lambert , Vision 2020
> >> , Robert Stout ,
> >> john dickinson
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Public Works Meeting
> >> Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 07:27:40 -0700
> >>
> >> This is a good idea. No sense in making EVERYONE on Mountain
>View
> >> stop all day long when there is only a problem twice a day. Or
>even
> >> having the lights on Mtn. View blink yellow most of the day and
>blink
> >> red during those peak-use times.
> >>
> >> The city needs to require the developer to finish the sidewalk
>on the
> >> east side of Mountain View too-between Hillcrest and Rolling
>Hills.
> >>
> >> cynthia nichols
> >>
> >>
> >> On Aug 16, 2006, at 11:21 AM, Bruce and Jean Livingston wrote:
> >>
> >>> Frankly, I don't understand why they don't put a traffic
> light
> >>> there, set it
> >>> for blinking yellow much of the day in the Mountainview
>direction,
> >>> but run
> >>> it with actual red and green alternating lights for the high
> >>> traffic, "kid"
> >>> times, say 7 a.m. to 9 a.m., and 2 p.m. until 4 or even 6 pm
>given
> >>> the "kid
> >>> use" of the athletic facilities all around that intersection.
>The
> >>> traffic
> >>> back-up on D St. can be significant, and a regimented crossing
> >>> opportunity
> >>> that an actual red light on Mountainview would provide is
> >>> significant.
> >>>
> >>> Parents would also be much more likely to allow children to
>walk to
> >>> school
> >>> if they had confidence in the safety of their child when
>crossing
> >>> Mountainview at D Street.
> >>>
> >>> Bruce Livingston
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Craine Kit"
> >>> To: "Vision 2020"
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 10:21 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Public Works Meeting
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Here are the photos showing the flashing lights.
> >>>>
> >>>> Kit Craine
>
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