Jackie,<br> <br> I never said that a 4 way stop caused accidents. I simply said that it does not necessarily prevent them for crossing school children. What PROOF do you have that they do prevent them? <br> <br> _DJA<br><br><b><i>J Ford <privatejf32@hotmail.com></i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> What PROOF do you have that a 4-way has CAUSED accidents?<br><br>The 4-way at Blaine and 6th, D and Hayes, 6th and Line, Blaine and White, <br>and the new ones on campus, etc. have all worked well, have proven that they <br>provide safety and several of those did not follow warrant criteria that <br>"allowed" them to be put in by City Staff.<br><br>The City Council did the right thing last night and at least is attempting <br>to fix a problem and potential liability issue by approving the 4-way stop <br>at D and Mt. View. They did so out of concern for the children *and* the
<br>drivers of Moscow.<br><br><br>J :]<br><br><br><br><br><br>>From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 @yahoo.com=""><br>>To: Art Deco <deco @moscow.com="">, Vision 2020 <vision2020 @moscow.com=""><br>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Line and 6th<br>>Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 08:41:30 -0700 (PDT)<br>><br>>I think Wayne is operating under the assumption that a four way stop would <br>>necessarily increase safety. I don't think that is the proved case.<br>><br>> Best,<br>><br>> _DJA<br>><br>>Art Deco <deco @moscow.com=""> wrote: One problem at the center of <br>>this issue is the value question of which is more important: The risk to <br>>pedestrian (and vehicular) safety or increased vehicular throughput.<br>><br>> When I was very young, I lived in an area where safety was given a very <br>> high priority. This commitment was backed by signage and LEO <br>>enforcement with citations. Perhaps now
more people are more <br>>"me-oriented" with a higher concern for completing their tasks in a given <br>>time period than they are about the safety and activities of others. Have <br>>our values changed so that for many the importance of safety at D and <br>>Mountain View (and other risky intersections) is not a big concern for <br>>many.<br>><br>> The crosswalk near Tri-State continues being a problem. Yesterday a <br>>very visible pedestrian was almost hit by a motorist who apparently <br>>decided that if he honked his horn it was alright to speed through the <br>>crosswalk.<br>><br>> Because of the construction there is more traffic on Main through <br>>downtown. Pedestrians need to be aware of the increased peril by <br>>impatient drivers.<br>><br>> Part of this issue may also related to having a blasé city manager who <br>>does not live in the city, hence does not make the observations the
<br>>residents do, does not seem to care as much as some residents do, and does <br>>not have to face the comments of his neighbors about the city when he goes <br>>home.<br>><br>> W.<br>><br>><br>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Rumelhart<br>> To: Vision 2020<br>> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 3:46 PM<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Line and 6th<br>><br>><br>><br>>I'd also like to add that most drivers on the UI Campus are aware that <br>>students will be at the crosswalks and that they should stop for them. <br>>Campus is seen as a pedestrian-centered area, probably because of the <br>>habits the students have of just blindly walking into the intersections. <br>>This is how they've been taught through experience. At Mountain View and <br>>D streets, you're on a 35 mph road which many people think of as a road <br>>that is more traffic-centered than pedestrian-centered,
although they <br>>should be thinking of it as the opposite at that intersection. There are <br>>also turn lanes at that intersection, making the crossing distance <br>>greater.<br>><br>>I'm behind the idea of a light there, it would be safer for everybody. I <br>>understand that there are costs involved, but with the Junior High, the <br>>elementary school, and the water park there, I think it would be a lot <br>>safer.<br>><br>>As someone else posted, I think a four-way stop for now while a grant is <br>>being worked on would be a good place to start. I also like the idea of <br>>getting some more numbers tallied on the subject, but you have to do more <br>>than just maximize throughput. You have to maximise safety for the <br>>children even at the expense of driving time. Especially there. In my <br>>opinion, anyway.<br>><br>>Paul<br>><br>>Donovan Arnold wrote: What are you people on crack?
Line and 6th (a <br>>three way, not four way stop) is backed up for blocks several times a day. <br>>Cars are half way to Deakin every time I go through there. And college <br>>students don't all get out off classes at exactly the same time like they <br>>do on Mt. View and D. I don't use that road. But I think people will be <br>>very upset if a four way stop is placed on that intersection instead of a <br>>stop light. Letting 20 cars go at a time is much faster then one at a <br>>time, and safer.<br>><br>>Best,<br>><br>>_DJA<br>><br>>Art Deco <deco @moscow.com=""> wrote: How do we know <br>>that a four-way stop at Mountain View and D will clog traffic for blocks? <br>>Do you have access to traffic studies and the engineered conclusions drawn <br>>from them the rest of us are ignorant of?<br>><br>> There are several busy intersections with four-way stops that <br>>function
fine without clogging traffic for blocks: Blaine and 6th, Blaine <br>> and White, Hayes and D, Line and 6th (although this can back up traffic <br>>for about one block on the east side at peak times, but no big deal), A <br>>and Line, are a few examples.<br>><br>> W.<br>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Donovan Arnold<br>> To: roger hayes ; vision2020@moscow.com<br>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:22 AM<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Mountain View and D<br>><br>><br>><br>>I am not for a stop sign on Mountain and D. I am however, for a stop <br>>light. A four way stop will have Mountain View and D street clogged for <br>>blocks. That will force more people into taking alternative routes <br>>speeding through neighborhood streets and down 6th Street (when and if <br>>that road ever reopens).<br>><br>>It sounds logical to put a four way stop there. But I
think the volume of <br>>traffic is great and this will create greater problems on that corner and <br>>elsewhere in town. How much longer does it take for four cars to come to a <br>>stop, then go one at a time? Multiply that by the number of cars, if will <br>>a good 10-15 minutes longer to across town on that section of road.<br>><br>>Best,<br>><br>>_DJA<br>><br>>roger hayes <rhayes @turbonet.com=""> wrote: > A timed <br>>light is an improvement, but kids and walkers cross that<br>> > intersection from dawn to way past dark. The problem does not <br>>just<br>> > occur during the morning and afternoon. A stop sign would be a <br>>cheap,<br>> > effective way to slow the traffic enough so drivers would be <br>>more<br>> > aware of children and pedestrians in the crosswalk. We'd <br>>probably want<br>> > to leave the blinking yellow light
though.<br>><br>>Roger Hayes<br>><br>> ><br>> >> I think the city has viewed Mt. View as an arterial for the <br>>increasing<br>> >> numbers of houses on the outskirts of Moscow.<br>> >> As a person who frequently crosses this intersection on foot <br>>and by<br>> >> bicycle, I think a 4 way stop sign at D and Mt. View is a good <br>>idea<br>> >> indeed. People tend to really zip through that area. It will, <br>>however,<br>> >> change the nature of Mt. View from commuting arterial to urban <br>> street.<br>> >> But given all the schools, the pool, and rec. centers in the <br>>area, the<br>> >> change will not be a bad thing.<br>> ><br>> > Roger Hayes<br>> ><br>> >> From: cynthia nichols<br>> >> To: Bruce and Jean Livingston<br>> >> CC: john
weber , Nancy Chaney<br>> >> ,<br>> >> bill lambert , Vision 2020<br>> >> , Robert Stout ,<br>> >> john dickinson<br>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Public Works Meeting<br>> >> Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 07:27:40 -0700<br>> >><br>> >> This is a good idea. No sense in making EVERYONE on Mountain <br>>View<br>> >> stop all day long when there is only a problem twice a day. Or <br>>even<br>> >> having the lights on Mtn. View blink yellow most of the day and <br>>blink<br>> >> red during those peak-use times.<br>> >><br>> >> The city needs to require the developer to finish the sidewalk <br>>on the<br>> >> east side of Mountain View too-between Hillcrest and Rolling <br>>Hills.<br>> >><br>> >> cynthia nichols<br>> >><br>>
>><br>> >> On Aug 16, 2006, at 11:21 AM, Bruce and Jean Livingston wrote:<br>> >><br>> >>> Frankly, I don't understand why they don't put a traffic <br>> light<br>> >>> there, set it<br>> >>> for blinking yellow much of the day in the Mountainview <br>>direction,<br>> >>> but run<br>> >>> it with actual red and green alternating lights for the high<br>> >>> traffic, "kid"<br>> >>> times, say 7 a.m. to 9 a.m., and 2 p.m. until 4 or even 6 pm <br>>given<br>> >>> the "kid<br>> >>> use" of the athletic facilities all around that intersection. <br>>The<br>> >>> traffic<br>> >>> back-up on D St. can be significant, and a regimented crossing<br>> >>> opportunity<br>> >>> that an actual red light on
Mountainview would provide is<br>> >>> significant.<br>> >>><br>> >>> Parents would also be much more likely to allow children to <br>>walk to<br>> >>> school<br>> >>> if they had confidence in the safety of their child when <br>>crossing<br>> >>> Mountainview at D Street.<br>> >>><br>> >>> Bruce Livingston<br>> >>><br>> >>> ----- Original Message -----<br>> >>> From: "Craine Kit"<br>> >>> To: "Vision 2020"<br>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 10:21 AM<br>> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Public Works Meeting<br>> >>><br>> >>><br>> >>>> Here are the photos showing the flashing lights.<br>> >>>><br>> >>>> Kit
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