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I think those particular intersections work well because there are no
turn lanes. There's a big difference between crossing a two-lane
versus a three-lane street. Because of the added complexity involved
at such an intersection and the added time to cross due to the number
of lanes I think that a traffic light would be more appropriate.
Perhaps it could be on sensors so it's a straight run through for
Mountain View when noone is at the intersection.<br>
<br>
I do think that a four-way stop would be better than not having one in
the mean time. Drivers are more willing to let pedestrians cross when
they are stopped than when they are moving.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
J Ford wrote:
<blockquote cite="midBAY105-F20F87D8820A1FCA4583545AF460@phx.gbl"
type="cite">What PROOF do you have that a 4-way has CAUSED accidents?
<br>
<br>
The 4-way at Blaine and 6th, D and Hayes, 6th and Line, Blaine and
White, and the new ones on campus, etc. have all worked well, have
proven that they provide safety and several of those did not follow
warrant criteria that "allowed" them to be put in by City Staff.
<br>
<br>
The City Council did the right thing last night and at least is
attempting to fix a problem and potential liability issue by approving
the 4-way stop at D and Mt. View. They did so out of concern for the
children *and* the drivers of Moscow.
<br>
<br>
<br>
J :]
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">From: Donovan Arnold
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com"><donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com></a>
<br>
To: Art Deco <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"><deco@moscow.com></a>, Vision 2020
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><vision2020@moscow.com></a>
<br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Line and 6th
<br>
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 08:41:30 -0700 (PDT)
<br>
<br>
I think Wayne is operating under the assumption that a four way stop
would necessarily increase safety. I don't think that is the proved
case.
<br>
<br>
Best,
<br>
<br>
_DJA
<br>
<br>
Art Deco <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"><deco@moscow.com></a> wrote: One problem at the
center of this issue is the value question of which is more
important: The risk to pedestrian (and vehicular) safety or increased
vehicular throughput.
<br>
<br>
When I was very young, I lived in an area where safety was given a
very high priority. This commitment was backed by signage and LEO
enforcement with citations. Perhaps now more people are more
"me-oriented" with a higher concern for completing their tasks in a
given time period than they are about the safety and activities of
others. Have our values changed so that for many the importance of
safety at D and Mountain View (and other risky intersections) is not a
big concern for many.
<br>
<br>
The crosswalk near Tri-State continues being a problem. Yesterday
a very visible pedestrian was almost hit by a motorist who apparently
decided that if he honked his horn it was alright to speed through the
crosswalk.
<br>
<br>
Because of the construction there is more traffic on Main through
downtown. Pedestrians need to be aware of the increased peril by
impatient drivers.
<br>
<br>
Part of this issue may also related to having a blasé city manager
who does not live in the city, hence does not make the observations
the residents do, does not seem to care as much as some residents do,
and does not have to face the comments of his neighbors about the city
when he goes home.
<br>
<br>
W.
<br>
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Rumelhart
<br>
To: Vision 2020
<br>
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 3:46 PM
<br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Line and 6th
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I'd also like to add that most drivers on the UI Campus are aware
that students will be at the crosswalks and that they should stop for
them. Campus is seen as a pedestrian-centered area, probably because
of the habits the students have of just blindly walking into the
intersections. This is how they've been taught through experience.
At Mountain View and D streets, you're on a 35 mph road which many
people think of as a road that is more traffic-centered than
pedestrian-centered, although they should be thinking of it as the
opposite at that intersection. There are also turn lanes at that
intersection, making the crossing distance greater.
<br>
<br>
I'm behind the idea of a light there, it would be safer for
everybody. I understand that there are costs involved, but with the
Junior High, the elementary school, and the water park there, I think
it would be a lot safer.
<br>
<br>
As someone else posted, I think a four-way stop for now while a grant
is being worked on would be a good place to start. I also like the
idea of getting some more numbers tallied on the subject, but you have
to do more than just maximize throughput. You have to maximise safety
for the children even at the expense of driving time. Especially
there. In my opinion, anyway.
<br>
<br>
Paul
<br>
<br>
Donovan Arnold wrote: What are you people on crack? Line and 6th (a
three way, not four way stop) is backed up for blocks several times a
day. Cars are half way to Deakin every time I go through there. And
college students don't all get out off classes at exactly the same
time like they do on Mt. View and D. I don't use that road. But I
think people will be very upset if a four way stop is placed on that
intersection instead of a stop light. Letting 20 cars go at a time is
much faster then one at a time, and safer.
<br>
<br>
Best,
<br>
<br>
_DJA
<br>
<br>
Art Deco <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"><deco@moscow.com></a> wrote: How do
we know that a four-way stop at Mountain View and D will clog traffic
for blocks? Do you have access to traffic studies and the engineered
conclusions drawn from them the rest of us are ignorant of?
<br>
<br>
There are several busy intersections with four-way stops that
function fine without clogging traffic for blocks: Blaine and 6th,
Blaine and White, Hayes and D, Line and 6th (although this can back up
traffic for about one block on the east side at peak times, but no big
deal), A and Line, are a few examples.
<br>
<br>
W.
<br>
----- Original Message ----- From: Donovan
Arnold
<br>
To: roger hayes ; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>
<br>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:22 AM
<br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Mountain View and D
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I am not for a stop sign on Mountain and D. I am however, for a stop
light. A four way stop will have Mountain View and D street clogged
for blocks. That will force more people into taking alternative
routes speeding through neighborhood streets and down 6th Street (when
and if that road ever reopens).
<br>
<br>
It sounds logical to put a four way stop there. But I think the volume
of traffic is great and this will create greater problems on that
corner and elsewhere in town. How much longer does it take for four
cars to come to a stop, then go one at a time? Multiply that by the
number of cars, if will a good 10-15 minutes longer to across town on
that section of road.
<br>
<br>
Best,
<br>
<br>
_DJA
<br>
<br>
roger hayes <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rhayes@turbonet.com"><rhayes@turbonet.com></a> wrote: >
A timed light is an improvement, but kids and walkers cross that
<br>
> intersection from dawn to way past dark. The problem does
not just
<br>
> occur during the morning and afternoon. A stop sign would be
a cheap,
<br>
> effective way to slow the traffic enough so drivers would
be more
<br>
> aware of children and pedestrians in the crosswalk. We'd
probably want
<br>
> to leave the blinking yellow light though.
<br>
<br>
Roger Hayes
<br>
<br>
>
<br>
>> I think the city has viewed Mt. View as an arterial
for the increasing
<br>
>> numbers of houses on the outskirts of Moscow.
<br>
>> As a person who frequently crosses this intersection
on foot and by
<br>
>> bicycle, I think a 4 way stop sign at D and Mt. View
is a good idea
<br>
>> indeed. People tend to really zip through that area.
It will, however,
<br>
>> change the nature of Mt. View from commuting arterial
to urban street.
<br>
>> But given all the schools, the pool, and rec. centers
in the area, the
<br>
>> change will not be a bad thing.
<br>
>
<br>
> Roger Hayes
<br>
>
<br>
>> From: cynthia nichols
<br>
>> To: Bruce and Jean Livingston
<br>
>> CC: john weber , Nancy Chaney
<br>
>> ,
<br>
>> bill lambert , Vision 2020
<br>
>> , Robert Stout ,
<br>
>> john dickinson
<br>
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Public Works Meeting
<br>
>> Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 07:27:40 -0700
<br>
>>
<br>
>> This is a good idea. No sense in making EVERYONE on
Mountain View
<br>
>> stop all day long when there is only a problem twice a
day. Or even
<br>
>> having the lights on Mtn. View blink yellow most of
the day and blink
<br>
>> red during those peak-use times.
<br>
>>
<br>
>> The city needs to require the developer to finish the
sidewalk on the
<br>
>> east side of Mountain View too-between Hillcrest and
Rolling Hills.
<br>
>>
<br>
>> cynthia nichols
<br>
>>
<br>
>>
<br>
>> On Aug 16, 2006, at 11:21 AM, Bruce and Jean
Livingston wrote:
<br>
>>
<br>
>>> Frankly, I don't understand why they don't put a
traffic light
<br>
>>> there, set it
<br>
>>> for blinking yellow much of the day in the
Mountainview direction,
<br>
>>> but run
<br>
>>> it with actual red and green alternating lights
for the high
<br>
>>> traffic, "kid"
<br>
>>> times, say 7 a.m. to 9 a.m., and 2 p.m. until 4 or
even 6 pm given
<br>
>>> the "kid
<br>
>>> use" of the athletic facilities all around that
intersection. The
<br>
>>> traffic
<br>
>>> back-up on D St. can be significant, and a
regimented crossing
<br>
>>> opportunity
<br>
>>> that an actual red light on Mountainview would
provide is
<br>
>>> significant.
<br>
>>>
<br>
>>> Parents would also be much more likely to allow
children to walk to
<br>
>>> school
<br>
>>> if they had confidence in the safety of their
child when crossing
<br>
>>> Mountainview at D Street.
<br>
>>>
<br>
>>> Bruce Livingston
<br>
>>>
<br>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
<br>
>>> From: "Craine Kit"
<br>
>>> To: "Vision 2020"
<br>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 10:21 AM
<br>
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Public Works Meeting
<br>
>>>
<br>
>>>
<br>
>>>> Here are the photos showing the
flashing lights.
<br>
>>>>
<br>
>>>> Kit Craine
<br>
<br>
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