[WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

Fri Dec 18 11:36:30 PST 2020

Mr. Long is correct, imho.  He is not talking about removing landlords from
their homes.  He is talking about the government taking control of dwellings
away from the landlord owners.  That is expropriation of dwellings, even if
temporarily.

As for mob rule, that was a concern of the founders (we were pretty much
started by disfavored minorities that fled slaughter in other places) and
that is relevant in analyzing the use of emergency powers which has stripped
away all of the protections mentioned.  The pandemic is the reason for
invoking emergency powers.  The problem under discussion is the way the
powers are used, who benefits and who pays. So I have an opinion about why a
politician would choose to lay the burden on landlords instead of broader
society.  At least these days no one gets killed over differences of opinion
.. oh, wait..

There are valid points and concerns on the right and the left.  But our
society seems to not care about coming to a consensus that works for more
than a mere majority (I live in OR where Portland can outvote the rest of
the state).  But our system has worked better than most others, until
emergency powers are used based on politics instead of rational analysis and
problem solving.  That Canadian idea someone mentioned makes sense to me.

Lenard L Wittlake, PLLC

Attorney & Counselor at Law

22 East Poplar Street, Suite 202

P.O. Box 1233

Walla Walla, WA 99362

(509) 529-1529 voice

(509) 850-3515 fax

 <http://www.lwattorney.com> www.lwattorney.com

 <mailto:Lenard at wittlakelaw.com> Lenard at wittlakelaw.com

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From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
[mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Eric Nelsen
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2020 10:08 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

Life tenure for federal judges, the apportionment of the US Senate, and the
electoral college, being the antimajoritarian aspects of the structure of
federal government, don't seem relevant to this Washington state discussion.
The Washington State bicameral legislature is proportionally representative
in both houses and operates by majority rule in both houses. Our judges are
elected at every level all the way up to the Supreme Court. I don't think
any of that has changed since the state was founded in 1889.

I suppose a judiciary can be considered to some extent "antimajoritarian"
simply by its existence, in that rule of law helps prevent mob rule and
re-channels efforts to change the law to the legislative process. But a
judiciary is also upholding the laws enacted by the legislature, which is
basically a pro-majoritarian function.

Hairsplitting about Constitutional Republic versus Representative Democracy
doesn't change the fact that self-governance, by either structure, involves
consent of all to abide by the collective decision of the government. That
is, by definition, rule of law.

So if our self-governmental process--the state legislature--changes the
legal landscape in a way that prioritizes life or liberty over certain
property rights, that is not tyranny just because one might disagree with
the decision. A lawyer who stands against that process would be, by
definition, opposing the rule of law.

None of which means a lawyer can't fiercely advocate for a change in the
law, or argue regulatory taking or whatever. But that's not an
"antimajoritarian" role for lawyers as a group; that's individual advocacy
within the law.

It's incoherent to argue that "rule of law" prevents the legislature from
changing the law. If one doesn't like the change, one is simply arguing for
the status quo. Of course one has a right to do so; but it does not make
that person a righteous defender of rule of law, or a principled
antimajoritarian. It's just a political position, and win or lose the
legislative battle, I would expect compliance with the law.

Sincerely,

Eric

Eric C. Nelsen

Sayre Law Offices, PLLC

1417 31st Ave South

Seattle WA 98144-3909

206-625-0092

 <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com> eric at sayrelawoffices.com

Covid-19 Update - All attorneys are working remotely during regular business
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Seattle office.

From: K. Garl Long <Garl at longlaw.biz> 
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 5:50 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>; Eric Nelsen
<eric at sayrelawoffices.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

Our country was founded as a Constitutional Republic, not an absolute
Democracy. We did this to avoid the institution of tyranny by the majority.
We did this to protect the minority, to assure that each person, would have
the inalienable right live life in liberty, to pursue happiness without
fearing deprivation by the majority. 

It is true that our constitutions have been much weakened, it may be that
this will continue until the majority can trample unfettered on the rights
of disfavored groups; it will most certainly occur if lawyers do not stand
for the rule of law, especially against the majority.

KGL

On 12/17/2020 05:34 PM, Eric Nelsen wrote:

It would be good for some real property lawyers to be involved in further
discussions of the moratoria, and certainly anything as consequential as
legislation.

"Outvoting y'all" is also called majority rule in a democracy. That rests on
the social contract, that for the greater good of all, the minority agrees
to abide by the decision of the majority. There is a flood of opinionated
people in this country right now who appear to have forgotten that. I would
hope that lawyers as a group have not forgotten. If our legislators change
the priorities between property rights and life and liberty interests, that
is how self-governance works.

"Expropriation of dwellings" bollocks. No landlord is being removed from
their home. Landlords' right to use the courts to enforce payment of rent is
being temporarily blocked during a health emergency. The debt remains owing
and there will be a huge financial and legal mess to clean up. But I think
calling it "expropriation of dwellings" is hardly appropriate.

Sincerely,

Eric

Eric C. Nelsen

Sayre Law Offices, PLLC

1417 31st Ave South

Seattle WA 98144-3909

206-625-0092

 <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com> eric at sayrelawoffices.com

Covid-19 Update - All attorneys are working remotely during regular business
hours and are available via email and by phone. Videoconferencing also is
available. Signing of estate planning documents can be completed and will be
handled on a case-by-case basis. Please direct mail and deliveries to the
Seattle office.

From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
<wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Lenard Wittlake
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 4:36 PM
To: 'WSBA Real Property Listserv'  <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
<wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

So there you have it.  There are enough who "vehemently support" the
"expropriation of dwellings" that they can now outvote y'all, so what do you
expect from politicians?

Since the Governor has not "surgically" addressed the overreach problems in
four iterations of the moratorium, it is not likely going to happen in the
fifth.

It appears to be time for the section to organize an evaluation of the
proposed legislation.  I assume our appointed leaders are working on such.

Lenard L Wittlake, PLLC

Attorney & Counselor at Law

22 East Poplar Street, Suite 202

P.O. Box 1233

Walla Walla, WA 99362

(509) 529-1529 voice

(509) 850-3515 fax

www.lwattorney.com

Lenard at wittlakelaw.com

The information contained in this email may be privileged, confidential or

otherwise protected from disclosure.  If you received this email in error,

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From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
[mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Christy M
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 2:41 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

I, for one, do not meekly accept; I vehemently support.  

-------- Original message --------

From: "K. Garl Long" <Garl at longlaw.biz> 

Date: 12/17/20 2:15 PM (GMT-08:00) 

To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> 

Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session 

If you choose to put money that you have earned into the pocket of the owner
of a dwelling, in exchange for the privilege of living there, it is called a
contract.

If the government expropriates the dwelling from the owner so that you can
live there without paying, it is theft. You may recall that the Intolerable
Acts included such expropriation of dwellings.  This is what our founders
fought against, and which we now meekly accept.

KGL

On 12/17/2020 01:55 PM, Andrew Hay wrote:

Voltaire again . As far as his notion of government taking money from one
class and giving to another, as a non-landlord, I see my money going to  the
pockets of landlords.  I fund governmental benefits with my taxes.  Those
benefits are paid to landlords for rent.  Generally, rent paid to landlords
by those on government benefits is a disproportionately high percentage of
their income.  Voltaire would likely conclude the landlords are the ones
benefitting from this governmental transfer.

Perhaps the moratorium suspends this transfer to landlords to allow my taxes
to temporarily fund pandemic relief.

Andrew Hay

Hay & Swann PLLC

201 S. 34th St.

Tacoma, WA 98418

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From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
[mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of K. Garl Long
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 1:34 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv; Rob Rowley
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

It is not inequality which is the real misfortune, it is dependence.
Voltaire again.

On 12/17/2020 11:25 AM, Rob Rowley wrote:

In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as
possible from one class of citizens to give to another.  Voltaire.

From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
On Behalf Of Chris B
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:59 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

I just entered into an agreement to sell 4 of my 12 rental homes as a
package.  All will be town down and replaced with McMansions. These are nice
homes that I am proud to own, two of which have tenants in them for more
than 10 years.  While all my tenants are current in their rent, I no longer
wish to be in the rental housing business in a state that is clearly trying
to kill that business.  

As they say, it is "a feature, not a bug."

Chris Benis

Hecker, Wakefield & Feilberg, P.S.

321 First Avenue West, Seattle, WA  98119

206.447-1900 office - 206.447.9075 fax - www. heckerwakefield.com
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From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
On Behalf Of Rani K. Sampson
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:51 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

The long-term consequences of forcing landlords to absorb large financial
losses are predictable:  landlords will liquidate their real estate
investments (they'll sell).  Tenants will have much less housing to choose
from.  Rental houses will be incredibly hard to find.  The void might be
filled by corporate landlords building apartments or government landlords
building projects.  

This is very bad for tenants, long term.  The loss of rental housing will
affect all of us.

Rani K. Sampson

Overcast Law Offices | Attorney

23 S Wenatchee Ave #320, Wenatchee WA 98801 | (509) 663-5588 x 6

From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
On Behalf Of Kary Krismer
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:37 AM
To: wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

You're generalizing.  The moratorium protects an entire class regardless of
their need, at the expense of another class, regardless of their need.  If
it were based on economics I'd have little problem with it, but it's not.
Beyond that though, I'm worried about the long term adverse effects on those
who actually need the protection.  The moratorium may have given them a
false sense of security and lead them to make bad decisions.  Back when I
practiced law I did primarily debtor bankruptcy and the moratorium is likely
causing people to make decisions that no competent financial planner would
ever advise them to make.

Also, you can't even assume someone who rents cannot afford to own.  They
may just not wish to own for many different reasons.

Kary L. Krismer
206 723-2148

On 12/17/2020 10:20 AM, Andrew Hay wrote:

I will take the pro moratorium position.  Donning my suit of armor at the
same time...

This is a time of great economic pain due to a pandemic unequaled by any
health crisis in 100 years.  The moratoriums are a policy protecting the
most vulnerable people in the population as a whole - renters.  As a group
they are either poor or old or both.  They are people who can't afford homes
due to lack of wealth.

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