[WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
K. Garl Long
Garl at longlaw.biz
Fri Dec 18 10:49:52 PST 2020
In our state, as in others, representatives are elected to the
legislature from districts. This allows smaller population areas (voter
minorities) to be represented, to have their views heard. This is not
"antimajoritarian". Constitutions are established as a protection
against the power of government, and to protect against tyranny by the
majority. The courts are meant to be an additional check, using the
restrictions and guarantees of the constitution to check the powerof
government. On this, I believe, we can all agree.
Our system allows, and indeed requires, informed political debate; which
is what this string seems to have been.
A good weekend to all,
KGL
On 12/18/2020 10:08 AM, Eric Nelsen wrote:
>
> Life tenure for federal judges, the apportionment of the US Senate,
> and the electoral college, being the antimajoritarian aspects of the
> structure of federal government, don’t seem relevant to this
> Washington state discussion. The Washington State bicameral
> legislature is proportionally representative in both houses and
> operates by majority rule in both houses. Our judges are elected at
> every level all the way up to the Supreme Court. I don’t think any of
> that has changed since the state was founded in 1889.
>
> I suppose a judiciary can be considered to some extent
> “antimajoritarian” simply by its existence, in that rule of law helps
> prevent mob rule and re-channels efforts to change the law to the
> legislative process. But a judiciary is also upholding the laws
> enacted by the legislature, which is basically a pro-majoritarian
> function.
>
> Hairsplitting about Constitutional Republic versus Representative
> Democracy doesn’t change the fact that self-governance, by either
> structure, involves consent of all to abide by the collective decision
> of the government. That is, by definition, rule of law.
>
> So if our self-governmental process--the state legislature--changes
> the legal landscape in a way that prioritizes life or liberty over
> certain property rights, that is not tyranny just because one might
> disagree with the decision. A lawyer who stands against that process
> would be, by definition, /opposing/ the rule of law.
>
> None of which means a lawyer can’t fiercely advocate for a change in
> the law, or argue regulatory taking or whatever. But that’s not an
> “antimajoritarian” role for lawyers as a group; that’s individual
> advocacy within the law.
>
> It’s incoherent to argue that “rule of law” prevents the legislature
> from changing the law. If one doesn’t like the change, one is simply
> arguing for the status quo. Of course one has a right to do so; but it
> does not make that person a righteous defender of rule of law, or a
> principled antimajoritarian. It’s just a political position, and win
> or lose the legislative battle, I would expect compliance with the law.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Eric
>
> Eric C. Nelsen
>
> Sayre Law Offices, PLLC
>
> 1417 31st Ave South
>
> Seattle WA 98144-3909
>
> 206-625-0092
>
> eric at sayrelawoffices.com <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com>
>
> *Covid-19 Update - *All attorneys are working remotely during regular
> business hours and are available via email and by phone.
> Videoconferencing also is available. Signing of estate planning
> documents can be completed and will be handled on a case-by-case
> basis. Please direct mail and deliveries to the Seattle office.
>
> *From:*K. Garl Long <Garl at longlaw.biz>
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 5:50 PM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>; Eric
> Nelsen <eric at sayrelawoffices.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
> Our country was founded as a Constitutional Republic, not an absolute
> Democracy. We did this to avoid the institution of tyranny by the
> majority. We did this to protect the minority, to assure that each
> person, would have the inalienable right live life in liberty, to
> pursue happiness without fearing deprivation by the majority.
>
> It is true that our constitutions have been much weakened, it may be
> that this will continue until the majority can trample unfettered on
> the rights of disfavored groups; it will most certainly occur if
> lawyers do not stand for the rule of law, especially against the majority.
>
> KGL
>
> On 12/17/2020 05:34 PM, Eric Nelsen wrote:
>
> It would be good for some real property lawyers to be involved in
> further discussions of the moratoria, and certainly anything as
> consequential as legislation.
>
> “Outvoting y’all” is also called majority rule in a democracy.
> That rests on the social contract, that for the greater good of
> all, the minority agrees to abide by the decision of the majority.
> There is a flood of opinionated people in this country right now
> who appear to have forgotten that. I would hope that lawyers as a
> group have not forgotten. If our legislators change the priorities
> between property rights and life and liberty interests, that is
> how self-governance works.
>
> “Expropriation of dwellings” bollocks. No /landlord/ is being
> removed from their home. Landlords’ right to use the courts to
> enforce payment of rent is being temporarily blocked during a
> health emergency. The debt remains owing and there will be a huge
> financial and legal mess to clean up. But I think calling it
> “expropriation of dwellings” is hardly appropriate.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Eric
>
> Eric C. Nelsen
>
> Sayre Law Offices, PLLC
>
> 1417 31st Ave South
>
> Seattle WA 98144-3909
>
> 206-625-0092
>
> eric at sayrelawoffices.com <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com>
>
> *Covid-19 Update - *All attorneys are working remotely during
> regular business hours and are available via email and by phone.
> Videoconferencing also is available. Signing of estate planning
> documents can be completed and will be handled on a case-by-case
> basis. Please direct mail and deliveries to the Seattle office.
>
> *From:*wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Lenard
> Wittlake
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 4:36 PM
> *To:* 'WSBA Real Property Listserv' <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
> So there you have it. There are enough who “vehemently support”
> the “expropriation of dwellings” that they can now outvote y’all,
> so what do you expect from politicians?
>
> Since the Governor has not “surgically” addressed the overreach
> problems in four iterations of the moratorium, it is not likely
> going to happen in the fifth.
>
> It appears to be time for the section to organize an evaluation of
> the proposed legislation. I assume our appointed leaders are
> working on such.
>
> Lenard L Wittlake, PLLC
>
> Attorney & Counselor at Law
>
> 22 East Poplar Street, Suite 202
>
> P.O. Box 1233
>
> Walla Walla, WA 99362
>
> (509) 529-1529 voice
>
> (509) 850-3515 fax
>
> www.lwattorney.com <http://www.lwattorney.com>
>
> Lenard at wittlakelaw.com <mailto:Lenard at wittlakelaw.com>
>
> The information contained in this email may be privileged,
> confidential or
>
> otherwise protected from disclosure. If you received this email
> in error,
>
> please reply to the sender that you have received this information
> in error
>
> and delete this email.
>
> *From:*wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] *On Behalf Of *Christy M
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 2:41 PM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
> I, for one, do not meekly accept; I vehemently support.
>
> -------- Original message --------
>
> From: "K. Garl Long" <Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz>>
>
> Date: 12/17/20 2:15 PM (GMT-08:00)
>
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com
> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
> If you choose to put money that you have earned into the pocket of
> the owner of a dwelling, in exchange for the privilege of living
> there, it is called a contract.
>
> If the government expropriates the dwelling from the owner so that
> you can live there without paying, it is theft. You may recall
> that the Intolerable Acts included such expropriation of
> dwellings. This is what our founders fought against, and which we
> now meekly accept.
>
> KGL
>
> On 12/17/2020 01:55 PM, Andrew Hay wrote:
>
> Voltaire again … As far as his notion of government taking
> money from one class and giving to another, as a non-landlord,
> I see my money going to the pockets of landlords. I fund
> governmental benefits with my taxes. Those benefits are paid
> to landlords for rent. Generally, rent paid to landlords by
> those on government benefits is a disproportionately high
> percentage of their income. Voltaire would likely conclude
> the landlords are the ones benefitting from this governmental
> transfer.
>
> Perhaps the moratorium suspends this transfer to landlords to
> allow my taxes to temporarily fund pandemic relief.
>
> *Andrew Hay*
>
> Hay & Swann PLLC
>
> 201 S. 34^th St.
>
> Tacoma, WA 98418
>
> /www.washingtonlaw.net
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonlaw.net%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C3ad32d5fc4764794e46e08d8a2d935b8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438401075055698%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=DtUXJVBQr9jrfAcs0VP8AjpgaqzovLn11GNixl6v0Ug%3D&reserved=0>/
>
> /andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <mailto:andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net>/
>
> 253.272.2400 (w)
>
> 253.377.3085 (c)
>
> THIS IS A CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION AND IS INTENDED FOR THE
> DESIGNATED RECIPIENT ONLY. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS
> COMMUNICATION IN ERROR, PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER IMMEDIATELY
> AND DESTROY ALL COPIES
>
> *From:*wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] *On Behalf Of *K.
> Garl Long
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 1:34 PM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv; Rob Rowley
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative
> session
>
> /It is not inequality which is the real misfortune, it is
> dependence. /Voltaire again.
>
> On 12/17/2020 11:25 AM, Rob Rowley wrote:
>
> In general, the art of government consists of taking as
> much money as possible from one class of citizens to give
> to another. Voltaire.
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> *On Behalf Of
> *Chris B
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:59 AM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv
> <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next
> legislative session
>
> I just entered into an agreement to sell 4 of my 12 rental
> homes as a package. All will be town down and replaced
> with McMansions. These are nice homes that I am proud to
> own, two of which have tenants in them for more than 10
> years. While all my tenants are current in their rent, I
> no longer wish to be in the rental housing business in a
> state that is clearly trying to kill that business.
>
> As they say, it is “a feature, not a bug.”
>
> Chris Benis
>
> Hecker, Wakefield & Feilberg, P.S.
>
> 321 First Avenue West, Seattle, WA 98119
>
> 206.447-1900 office – 206.447.9075 fax – www.
> heckerwakefield.com
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fheckerwakefield.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C3ad32d5fc4764794e46e08d8a2d935b8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438401075065693%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=yX6TEYkb2qMyn9cK3xUbOGsIz48aS9fz2uX8r%2FF%2FIxE%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
> This message contains information that may be CONFIDENTIAL
> AND PRIVILEGED. Unless you are the addressee (or
> authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use,
> copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information
> contained in the message. If you have received the
> message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail
> chrisb at heckerwakefield.com
> <mailto:chrisb at heckerwakefield.com>, and delete this
> message. Thank you very much.
>
> To comply with recent IRS rules, we must inform you that
> this message, if it contains advice relating to federal
> taxes, was not intended or written to be used, and it
> cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties that
> may be imposed under federal tax law. Under recent IRS
> rules, a taxpayer may rely on professional advice to avoid
> federal tax penalties only if that advice is reflected in
> a comprehensive tax opinion that conforms to stringent
> requirements under federal law. Please contact me if you
> would like to discuss our preparation of an opinion that
> conforms to these new rules.
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> *On Behalf Of
> *Rani K. Sampson
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:51 AM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv
> <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next
> legislative session
>
> The long-term consequences of forcing landlords to absorb
> large financial losses are predictable: landlords will
> liquidate their real estate investments (they’ll sell).
> Tenants will have much less housing to choose from.
> Rental houses will be incredibly hard to find. The void
> might be filled by corporate landlords building apartments
> or government landlords building projects.
>
> This is very bad for tenants, long term. The loss of
> rental housing will affect all of us.
>
> *Rani K. Sampson*
>
> Overcast Law Offices | Attorney
>
> 23 S Wenatchee Ave #320, Wenatchee WA 98801 | (509)
> 663-5588 x 6
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
> <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> *On Behalf Of
> *Kary Krismer
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:37 AM
> *To:* wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com
> <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next
> legislative session
>
> You're generalizing. The moratorium protects an entire
> class regardless of their need, at the expense of another
> class, regardless of their need. If it were based on
> economics I'd have little problem with it, but it's not.
> Beyond that though, I'm worried about the long term
> adverse effects on those who actually need the
> protection. The moratorium may have given them a false
> sense of security and lead them to make bad decisions.
> Back when I practiced law I did primarily debtor
> bankruptcy and the moratorium is likely causing people to
> make decisions that no competent financial planner would
> ever advise them to make.
>
> Also, you can't even assume someone who rents cannot
> afford to own. They may just not wish to own for many
> different reasons.
>
> Kary L. Krismer
>
> 206 723-2148
>
> On 12/17/2020 10:20 AM, Andrew Hay wrote:
>
> I will take the pro moratorium position. Donning my
> suit of armor at the same time…..
>
> This is a time of great economic pain due to a
> pandemic unequaled by any health crisis in 100 years.
> The moratoriums are a policy protecting the most
> vulnerable people in the population as a whole –
> renters. As a group they are either poor or old or
> both. They are people who can’t afford homes due to
> lack of wealth.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Image removed by sender. Avast logo
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.avast.com%2Fantivirus&data=04%7C01%7C%7C3ad32d5fc4764794e46e08d8a2d935b8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438401075065693%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=w5ED6xDFhAmMVWCiL6c6%2Bgw7HAwBvJmgf397NWn7cGo%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
> software.
> www.avast.com
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.avast.com%2Fantivirus&data=04%7C01%7C%7C3ad32d5fc4764794e46e08d8a2d935b8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438401075075688%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=8CZu5iUGqPapH%2BGiZwr6FWa9U4G1mUXj4O7OMxQYeQs%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> WSBARP mailing list
>
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com>
>
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.fsr.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fwsbarp&data=04%7C01%7C%7C3ad32d5fc4764794e46e08d8a2d935b8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438401075085687%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2FnWFsbwNtQ9wBg79b8%2FWIJIJZLs3z%2B4emU4cvw4FeJM%3D&reserved=0>
>
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> WSBARP mailing list
>
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com>
>
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.fsr.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fwsbarp&data=04%7C01%7C%7C3ad32d5fc4764794e46e08d8a2d935b8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438401075085687%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2FnWFsbwNtQ9wBg79b8%2FWIJIJZLs3z%2B4emU4cvw4FeJM%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
>
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> WSBARP mailing list
>
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com>
>
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
>
>
>
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/wsbarp/attachments/20201218/18cb7264/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 823 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/wsbarp/attachments/20201218/18cb7264/image001.jpg>
More information about the WSBARP
mailing list