[WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

Sat Dec 19 13:08:38 PST 2020

Wow.  what a brilliant string of thoughts.  One of you, buried down the
string quite a ways, articulated what I would call the best analysis.  I
would like to add just a bit.

The brilliant one said, and I am paraphrasing, that one of the purposes of
the federal government in times like these is to step up to help.  In this
case that would have (and probably still could) meant that a landlord -
tenant relief bill be adopted until the end of the pandemic.  If a tenant
could show that he/she was financially disadvantaged because of the Covid
and filled out the paperwork, then the tenant's rent would be paid directly
to the landlord.  If the tenant did not qualify or simply did not take the
time and effort to fill out the forms and go to the interview, then the
regular rules of unlawful detainer would apply.  Pretty simple.  There are
details, of course.

Yes, this would create another layer of bureaucracy at the state level and
would take some time to set up.  An interim forbearance could be allowed.
However, this landlord - tenant relief bill is better than all the terrible
predictions that have been brought up in this email discussion.  I believe
the harm will be very substantial if a process like this is not developed
and implemented.

Why wasn't it developed and implemented?  (Or, where does the real fault
lie?)  If the federal government had addressed the Covid pandemic in a
professional way, the need for the landlord - tenant relief bill would have
been vetted and most likely funded by a significant fund to the individual
states for the purposes stated.  But, as we know, the President didn't step
up.  The real core of this problem is failed leadership at the top.

I appreciate all of the comments, even the two from Voltaire.  But I would
like whoever it was who had this brilliant idea to step forward and be
recognized.  It is the only real solution to this situation.  I have said
many times, "I may not ever have a creative idea, but I sure do recognize
one when I hear it."

Thank you all for the focus on this.  Are we going to try to outlast the
Covid....for another 8 months... or try to get something like this from the
Biden Administration?  That's the question now.

James Doran
James R. Doran
Attorney at Law
100 E. Pine Street -  Suite 205
Bellingham, WA 98225
(360)393-9506
jim at doranlegal.com
www.doranlegal.com

On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 11:39 AM Lenard Wittlake <lwlaw at my180.net> wrote:

> Mr. Long is correct, imho.  He is not talking about removing landlords
> from their homes.  He is talking about the government taking control of
> dwellings away from the landlord owners.  That is expropriation of
> dwellings, even if temporarily.
>
>
>
> As for mob rule, that *was* a concern of the founders (we were pretty
> much started by disfavored minorities that fled slaughter in other places)
> and that is relevant in analyzing the use of emergency powers which has
> stripped away all of the protections mentioned.  The pandemic is the reason
> for invoking emergency powers.  The problem under discussion is the way the
> powers are used, who benefits and who pays. So I have an opinion about why
> a politician would choose to lay the burden on landlords instead of broader
> society.  At least these days no one gets killed over differences of
> opinion …. oh, wait..
>
>
>
> There are valid points and concerns on the right and the left.  But our
> society seems to not care about coming to a consensus that works for more
> than a mere majority (I live in OR where Portland can outvote the rest of
> the state).  But our system has worked better than most others, until
> emergency powers are used based on politics instead of rational analysis
> and problem solving.  That Canadian idea someone mentioned makes sense to
> me.
>
>
>
>
>
> Lenard L Wittlake, PLLC
>
> Attorney & Counselor at Law
>
> 22 East Poplar Street, Suite 202
>
> P.O. Box 1233
>
> Walla Walla, WA 99362
>
> (509) 529-1529 voice
>
> (509) 850-3515 fax
>
> www.lwattorney.com
>
> Lenard at wittlakelaw.com
>
>
>
> The information contained in this email may be privileged, confidential or
>
> otherwise protected from disclosure.  If you received this email in error,
>
> please reply to the sender that you have received this information in error
>
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>
>
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:
> wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Nelsen
> *Sent:* Friday, December 18, 2020 10:08 AM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
>
>
> Life tenure for federal judges, the apportionment of the US Senate, and
> the electoral college, being the antimajoritarian aspects of the structure
> of federal government, don’t seem relevant to this Washington state
> discussion. The Washington State bicameral legislature is proportionally
> representative in both houses and operates by majority rule in both houses.
> Our judges are elected at every level all the way up to the Supreme Court.
> I don’t think any of that has changed since the state was founded in 1889.
>
>
>
> I suppose a judiciary can be considered to some extent “antimajoritarian”
> simply by its existence, in that rule of law helps prevent mob rule and
> re-channels efforts to change the law to the legislative process. But a
> judiciary is also upholding the laws enacted by the legislature, which is
> basically a pro-majoritarian function.
>
>
>
> Hairsplitting about Constitutional Republic versus Representative
> Democracy doesn’t change the fact that self-governance, by either
> structure, involves consent of all to abide by the collective decision of
> the government. That is, by definition, rule of law.
>
>
>
> So if our self-governmental process--the state legislature--changes the
> legal landscape in a way that prioritizes life or liberty over certain
> property rights, that is not tyranny just because one might disagree with
> the decision. A lawyer who stands against that process would be, by
> definition, *opposing* the rule of law.
>
>
>
> None of which means a lawyer can’t fiercely advocate for a change in the
> law, or argue regulatory taking or whatever. But that’s not an
> “antimajoritarian” role for lawyers as a group; that’s individual advocacy
> within the law.
>
>
>
> It’s incoherent to argue that “rule of law” prevents the legislature from
> changing the law. If one doesn’t like the change, one is simply arguing for
> the status quo. Of course one has a right to do so; but it does not make
> that person a righteous defender of rule of law, or a principled
> antimajoritarian. It’s just a political position, and win or lose the
> legislative battle, I would expect compliance with the law.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Eric
>
>
>
> Eric C. Nelsen
>
> Sayre Law Offices, PLLC
>
> 1417 31st Ave South
>
> Seattle WA 98144-3909
>
> 206-625-0092
>
> eric at sayrelawoffices.com
>
>
>
> *Covid-19 Update - *All attorneys are working remotely during regular
> business hours and are available via email and by phone. Videoconferencing
> also is available. Signing of estate planning documents can be completed
> and will be handled on a case-by-case basis. Please direct mail and
> deliveries to the Seattle office.
>
>
>
> *From:* K. Garl Long <Garl at longlaw.biz>
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 5:50 PM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>; Eric
> Nelsen <eric at sayrelawoffices.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
>
>
> Our country was founded as a Constitutional Republic, not an absolute
> Democracy. We did this to avoid the institution of tyranny by the
> majority.  We did this to protect the minority, to assure that each person,
> would have the inalienable right live life in liberty, to pursue happiness
> without fearing deprivation by the majority.
>
> It is true that our constitutions have been much weakened, it may be that
> this will continue until the majority can trample unfettered on the rights
> of disfavored groups; it will most certainly occur if lawyers do not stand
> for the rule of law, especially against the majority.
>
> KGL
>
>
>
> On 12/17/2020 05:34 PM, Eric Nelsen wrote:
>
> It would be good for some real property lawyers to be involved in further
> discussions of the moratoria, and certainly anything as consequential as
> legislation.
>
>
>
> “Outvoting y’all” is also called majority rule in a democracy. That rests
> on the social contract, that for the greater good of all, the minority
> agrees to abide by the decision of the majority. There is a flood of
> opinionated people in this country right now who appear to have forgotten
> that. I would hope that lawyers as a group have not forgotten. If our
> legislators change the priorities between property rights and life and
> liberty interests, that is how self-governance works.
>
>
>
> “Expropriation of dwellings” bollocks. No *landlord* is being removed
> from their home. Landlords’ right to use the courts to enforce payment of
> rent is being temporarily blocked during a health emergency. The debt
> remains owing and there will be a huge financial and legal mess to clean
> up. But I think calling it “expropriation of dwellings” is hardly
> appropriate.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Eric
>
>
>
> Eric C. Nelsen
>
> Sayre Law Offices, PLLC
>
> 1417 31st Ave South
>
> Seattle WA 98144-3909
>
> 206-625-0092
>
> eric at sayrelawoffices.com
>
>
>
> *Covid-19 Update - *All attorneys are working remotely during regular
> business hours and are available via email and by phone. Videoconferencing
> also is available. Signing of estate planning documents can be completed
> and will be handled on a case-by-case basis. Please direct mail and
> deliveries to the Seattle office.
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On
> Behalf Of *Lenard Wittlake
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 4:36 PM
> *To:* 'WSBA Real Property Listserv' <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
>
>
> So there you have it.  There are enough who “vehemently support” the
> “expropriation of dwellings” that they can now outvote y’all, so what do
> you expect from politicians?
>
>
>
> Since the Governor has not “surgically” addressed the overreach problems
> in four iterations of the moratorium, it is not likely going to happen in
> the fifth.
>
>
>
> It appears to be time for the section to organize an evaluation of the
> proposed legislation.  I assume our appointed leaders are working on such.
>
>
>
> Lenard L Wittlake, PLLC
>
> Attorney & Counselor at Law
>
> 22 East Poplar Street, Suite 202
>
> P.O. Box 1233
>
> Walla Walla, WA 99362
>
> (509) 529-1529 voice
>
> (509) 850-3515 fax
>
> www.lwattorney.com
>
> Lenard at wittlakelaw.com
>
>
>
> The information contained in this email may be privileged, confidential or
>
> otherwise protected from disclosure.  If you received this email in error,
>
> please reply to the sender that you have received this information in error
>
> and delete this email.
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [
> mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>] *On Behalf Of *Christy M
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 2:41 PM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
>
>
> I, for one, do not meekly accept; I vehemently support.
>
>
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
>
> From: "K. Garl Long" <Garl at longlaw.biz>
>
> Date: 12/17/20 2:15 PM (GMT-08:00)
>
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
>
>
> If you choose to put money that you have earned into the pocket of the
> owner of a dwelling, in exchange for the privilege of living there, it is
> called a contract.
>
> If the government expropriates the dwelling from the owner so that you can
> live there without paying, it is theft. You may recall that the Intolerable
> Acts included such expropriation of dwellings.  This is what our founders
> fought against, and which we now meekly accept.
>
> KGL
>
>
>
> On 12/17/2020 01:55 PM, Andrew Hay wrote:
>
> Voltaire again … As far as his notion of government taking money from one
> class and giving to another, as a non-landlord, I see my money going to
>  the pockets of landlords.  I fund governmental benefits with my taxes.
> Those benefits are paid to landlords for rent.  Generally, rent paid to
> landlords by those on government benefits is a disproportionately high
> percentage of their income.  Voltaire would likely conclude the landlords
> are the ones benefitting from this governmental transfer.
>
> Perhaps the moratorium suspends this transfer to landlords to allow my
> taxes to temporarily fund pandemic relief.
>
>
>
> *Andrew Hay*
>
> Hay & Swann PLLC
>
> 201 S. 34th St.
>
> Tacoma, WA 98418
>
> *www.washingtonlaw.net
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonlaw.net%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C3ad32d5fc4764794e46e08d8a2d935b8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438401075055698%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=DtUXJVBQr9jrfAcs0VP8AjpgaqzovLn11GNixl6v0Ug%3D&reserved=0>*
>
> *andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net <andrewhay at washingtonlaw.net>*
>
> 253.272.2400 (w)
>
> 253.377.3085 (c)
>
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>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [
> mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>] *On Behalf Of *K. Garl Long
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 1:34 PM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv; Rob Rowley
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
>
>
> *It is not inequality which is the real misfortune, it is dependence. *Voltaire
> again.
>
>
>
> On 12/17/2020 11:25 AM, Rob Rowley wrote:
>
> In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as
> possible from one class of citizens to give to another.  Voltaire.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
> wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Chris B
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:59 AM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
>
>
> I just entered into an agreement to sell 4 of my 12 rental homes as a
> package.  All will be town down and replaced with McMansions. These are
> nice homes that I am proud to own, two of which have tenants in them for
> more than 10 years.  While all my tenants are current in their rent, I no
> longer wish to be in the rental housing business in a state that is clearly
> trying to kill that business.
>
>
>
> As they say, it is “a feature, not a bug.”
>
>
>
> Chris Benis
>
> Hecker, Wakefield & Feilberg, P.S.
>
> 321 First Avenue West, Seattle, WA  98119
>
> 206.447-1900 office – 206.447.9075 fax – www. heckerwakefield.com
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fheckerwakefield.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C3ad32d5fc4764794e46e08d8a2d935b8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438401075065693%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=yX6TEYkb2qMyn9cK3xUbOGsIz48aS9fz2uX8r%2FF%2FIxE%3D&reserved=0>
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> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
> wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Rani K. Sampson
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:51 AM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
>
>
> The long-term consequences of forcing landlords to absorb large financial
> losses are predictable:  landlords will liquidate their real estate
> investments (they’ll sell).  Tenants will have much less housing to choose
> from.  Rental houses will be incredibly hard to find.  The void might be
> filled by corporate landlords building apartments or government landlords
> building projects.
>
>
>
> This is very bad for tenants, long term.  The loss of rental housing will
> affect all of us.
>
>
>
> *Rani K. Sampson*
>
> Overcast Law Offices | Attorney
>
> 23 S Wenatchee Ave #320, Wenatchee WA 98801 | (509) 663-5588 x 6
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
> wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Kary Krismer
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:37 AM
> *To:* wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session
>
>
>
> You're generalizing.  The moratorium protects an entire class regardless
> of their need, at the expense of another class, regardless of their need.
> If it were based on economics I'd have little problem with it, but it's
> not.  Beyond that though, I'm worried about the long term adverse effects
> on those who actually need the protection.  The moratorium may have given
> them a false sense of security and lead them to make bad decisions.  Back
> when I practiced law I did primarily debtor bankruptcy and the moratorium
> is likely causing people to make decisions that no competent financial
> planner would ever advise them to make.
>
> Also, you can't even assume someone who rents cannot afford to own.  They
> may just not wish to own for many different reasons.
>
> Kary L. Krismer
>
> 206 723-2148
>
> On 12/17/2020 10:20 AM, Andrew Hay wrote:
>
> I will take the pro moratorium position.  Donning my suit of armor at the
> same time…..
>
>
>
> This is a time of great economic pain due to a pandemic unequaled by any
> health crisis in 100 years.  The moratoriums are a policy protecting the
> most vulnerable people in the population as a whole – renters.  As a group
> they are either poor or old or both.  They are people who can’t afford
> homes due to lack of wealth.
>
>
>
>
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