[WSBAPT] Estate liability for uninsured driver?

Thu Nov 9 14:01:32 PST 2023

This seems like the fastest and most prudent course of action. Thank you
very much Jennifer.
*Genissa Richardson, Attorney at Law*
*True North Legal Services, PLLC*
*301 Prospect St., Bellingham, WA 98225*
*PO Box 934, Bellingham, WA 98227 (mailing address)*
*Phone (360) 639-3393*
*U.S. Coast Guard Veteran*

*NOTICE OF UNAVAILABILITY:*
I am out of the office and unavailable the following dates:
December 22nd, 2023 - January 1st, 2024
January 17th - 29th, 2024

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On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 1:57 PM Jennifer L White <jen at appletreelaw.com>
wrote:

> I agree with the prior sage advice that has been given. Here’s a thought
> to ponder: If these are just lower end inexpensive vehicles and you can’t
> get insurance or it’s astronomically expensive, move as quickly as you can
> to get the ownership changed into the hands of these folks in possession. I
> would bet it’s going to be a real challenge to get insurance on a vehicle
> that is now out of state. With Letters T you can go to DOL and get the
> title info and the paperwork to change from decedent to estate or release
> interest to 3rd party. There are some DOL agents that offer same day
> transfers for a small additional fee. Those places are listed on the
> website. As a practical matter, that may ultimately be the less expensive
> option and removes the potentially huge liability component to the
> PR/estate. A $10,000 vehicle is not worth a $1 million dollar uninsured
> claim. Add the vehicle to their distribution column - of course nicest if
> it’s contained in a tidy TEDRA, but speed may be needed right now over
> tidiness. PR could later be criticized for distributing, but I’d rather
> defend that position than an accident claim with uninsured estate vehicles
> being driven by potentially irresponsible people.
>
>
>
> Jennifer L. White, Esq.
>
>
>
> *jen at appletreelaw.com <jen at appletreelaw.com>*
>
> 2200 S 76th Ave
>
> Yakima, WA 98903
>
> 509.225.9813
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
> wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Genissa Richardson
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 9, 2023 1:17 PM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Estate liability for uninsured driver?
>
>
>
> Thank you for your input Bruce. Much appreciated!
>
> *Genissa Richardson, Attorney at Law*
>
> *True North Legal Services, PLLC*
>
> *301 Prospect St., Bellingham, WA 98225*
>
> *PO Box 934, Bellingham, WA 98227 (mailing address)*
>
> *Phone (360) 639-3393*
>
> *U.S. Coast Guard Veteran*
>
>
>
> *NOTICE OF UNAVAILABILITY:*
>
> I am out of the office and unavailable the following dates:
>
> December 22nd, 2023 - January 1st, 2024
>
> January 17th - 29th, 2024
>
>
>
> *The information transmitted by this email is intended only for the person
> or entity to which it is addressed. This email may contain proprietary,
> business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the
> intended recipient of this message, be aware that any use, review,
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> upon this message is strictly prohibited. If you received this in error,
> please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers.*
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 12:35 PM Bruce Moen <brm at moenlaw.com> wrote:
>
> I have been in this situation, both as a lawyer for the PR and also as a
> Successor PR.
>
>
>
> I agree with Mark to pull out all stops and get insurance. Many agents
> will tell you that the insurance is not available, but not true. If an
> agent tells you not available, then call the 800 number of a couple of
> companies. The insurance is available, but at inflated premiums.
>
>
>
> Failing that, my experience is that the PR can be sued.  I had three
> teenagers break into a locked garage, hotwire the estate's Cadillac car,
> and go joyriding. The joyride ended with a collision and the estate got
> sued. After that, I've been a fan of removing the battery or the coil wire
> to disable the car.
>
>
>
> If you know where the car is located several states away, then the PR
> could retain someone in the locality to disable the vehicle. Be careful
> with the wording of the authorization and maybe retain local counsel to
> pass on the wording of the authorization.
>
>
>
> On another occasion where I was the PR, I hired a repo company to take the
> car from the wrongdoing heir who was using the vehicle without
> authorization. We succeeded in getting the car, but not without the repo
> person being discovered during the process and being chased by the
> wrongdoer and five friends chasing after the car.  Ended well.  Made for
> great anecdotal stories.
>
>
>
>   Bruce Moen
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
> wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> on behalf of Mark Anderson <
> marka at mbaesq.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 9, 2023 11:53 AM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Estate liability for uninsured driver?
>
>
>
> Dear Genissa:
>
>
>
> I think it would be appropriate to collect and retain as much evidence as
> you can that the Estate did *not* give permission for the vehicles to be
> used at all by anyone.  This would include all communications with the
> Decedent's children and grandchildren.  To that end, I recommend following
> up with a strongly worded letter or email to the Decedent's children and
> grandchildren specifically stating they do not have and that *at no time*
> did they ever have any permission from the Estate to use any of the
> Decedent's vehicles.  I realize this may be trying to close the barn doors
> after the cows have escaped but it is still good to memorialize the fact
> that there was never any permission given by the Estate for anyone to use
> the vehicles.
>
>
>
> If the vehicles are proven to have been used without permission, then I
> can see no liability of the Estate in the event, for example, that the
> vehicle is involved in a collision.
>
>
>
> I also recommend that you contact the auto insurance carrier to explain
> the situation and see if they have any comments on steps that might be
> taken to protect the Estate from liability.
>
>
>
>
> *Mark B. Anderson *ANDERSON LAW FIRM PLLC
> 821 Dock St  Ste 209  PMB 4-12
> Tacoma, Washington 98402
> +1 253-327-1750
> +1 253-327-1751 (fax)
> marka at mbaesq.com
> www.mbaesq.com
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.mbaesq.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=kDcM-fraYQNOZ1rCslLoMSSRXJQXmQVvRJbE6ymQGho&m=C7AgLr4zBK_tp3I2sc5xH5wh7RAAwMBf7bVNvhNb2xue2mSM_PssZI_u8y-CU1YK&s=MCGdfuSDfAQJaBwkF6ytF5PG2bLxcl29jF0Y4jQMD4k&e=>
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>
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> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
> wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Genissa Richardson
> *Sent:* 11/09/2023 11:26 AM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> *Subject:* [WSBAPT] Estate liability for uninsured driver?
>
>
>
> Listmates,
>
>
>
> Am I correct in thinking that an estate can be held liable if a child or
> grandchild of the decedent commandeers one of the decedent's vehicles and
> is driving around uninsured?
>
>
>
> *Here's my hypothetical fact pattern:*
>
>
>
> One of the decedent's children is squatting in the home (working on an
> ejectment) and driving one of the vehicles without insurance or permission
> from the PR. The PR lives out of state, so it's not as easy as showing up
> here and taking the keys.
>
>
>
> The decedent's other vehicle has been commandeered by one of the
> decedent's grandchildren and has been driven several states away, again
> without insurance and without the PR's permission.
>
>
>
> All this took place before we could get the PR appointed. The unauthorized
> drivers may end up getting these vehicles as part of the estate
> administration process (parties may negotiate TEDRA for terms slightly
> different than the Will) but it's WAY too soon to know for sure and it
> doesn't change the fact that the titles (which can't be located) are still
> in the name of the decedent and neither person has insurance (at least I'm
> pretty sure they don't).
>
>
>
> Both drivers have been told by PR to cease use of the vehicles and return
> them to the decedent's home, to no avail. Does a strongly worded letter
> from the estate attorney putting them on formal notice of their wrongdoing
> help to reduce potential liability to the estate?
>
>
>
> *PR would prefer not to report the vehicles stolen. Is there a less severe
> alternative the PR can take to protect the estate? *
>
>
>
> Any input is appreciated.
>
> *Genissa Richardson, Attorney at Law*
>
> *True North Legal Services, PLLC*
>
> *301 Prospect St., Bellingham, WA 98225*
>
> *PO Box 934, Bellingham, WA 98227 (mailing address)*
>
> *Phone (360) 639-3393*
>
> *U.S. Coast Guard Veteran*
>
>
>
> *NOTICE OF UNAVAILABILITY:*
>
> I am out of the office and unavailable the following dates:
>
> December 22nd, 2023 - January 1st, 2024
>
> January 17th - 29th, 2024
>
>
>
> *The information transmitted by this email is intended only for the person
> or entity to which it is addressed. This email may contain proprietary,
> business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the
> intended recipient of this message, be aware that any use, review,
> retransmission, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance
> upon this message is strictly prohibited. If you received this in error,
> please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers.*
>
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