[WSBAPT] Estate liability for uninsured driver?

[Jennifer L White]

Genissa said that the beneficiaries were uncooperative in giving back the vehicles, not uncooperative in receiving them to own. If they are offered the title they may be more than happy to cooperate. She also said they did not want to report them stolen. You pose good questions, though, and I would not ever say anything but a full signature of the beneficiary would be a done deal to escape liability.

Jennifer L. White, Esq.
[cid:image001.jpg at 01DA1315.C3E9A080]

jen at appletreelaw.com<mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com>
2200 S 76th Ave
Yakima, WA 98903
509.225.9813

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Marcus Fry
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2023 1:55 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Estate liability for uninsured driver?

Jennifer:
How do you perform a vehicle transfer with a non-cooperative beneficiary that is in possession of the vehicle?  Does the estate just issue a bill of sale and file the report of sale with the DOL?  These steps do not actually change the vehicle registration, but do you believe those steps are sufficient to protect the estate as opposed to reporting the vehicle as stolen?

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Jennifer L White
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2023 1:41 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Estate liability for uninsured driver?

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I agree with the prior sage advice that has been given. Here’s a thought to ponder: If these are just lower end inexpensive vehicles and you can’t get insurance or it’s astronomically expensive, move as quickly as you can to get the ownership changed into the hands of these folks in possession. I would bet it’s going to be a real challenge to get insurance on a vehicle that is now out of state. With Letters T you can go to DOL and get the title info and the paperwork to change from decedent to estate or release interest to 3rd party. There are some DOL agents that offer same day transfers for a small additional fee. Those places are listed on the website. As a practical matter, that may ultimately be the less expensive option and removes the potentially huge liability component to the PR/estate. A $10,000 vehicle is not worth a $1 million dollar uninsured claim. Add the vehicle to their distribution column - of course nicest if it’s contained in a tidy TEDRA, but speed may be needed right now over tidiness. PR could later be criticized for distributing, but I’d rather defend that position than an accident claim with uninsured estate vehicles being driven by potentially irresponsible people.

Jennifer L. White, Esq.
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jen at appletreelaw.com<mailto:jen at appletreelaw.com>
2200 S 76th Ave
Yakima, WA 98903
509.225.9813

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Genissa Richardson
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2023 1:17 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Estate liability for uninsured driver?

Thank you for your input Bruce. Much appreciated!
Genissa Richardson, Attorney at Law
True North Legal Services, PLLC
301 Prospect St., Bellingham, WA 98225
PO Box 934, Bellingham, WA 98227 (mailing address)
Phone (360) 639-3393
U.S. Coast Guard Veteran

NOTICE OF UNAVAILABILITY:
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December 22nd, 2023 - January 1st, 2024
January 17th - 29th, 2024

The information transmitted by this email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. This email may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, be aware that any use, review, retransmission, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is strictly prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers.


On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 12:35 PM Bruce Moen <brm at moenlaw.com<mailto:brm at moenlaw.com>> wrote:
I have been in this situation, both as a lawyer for the PR and also as a Successor PR.

I agree with Mark to pull out all stops and get insurance. Many agents will tell you that the insurance is not available, but not true. If an agent tells you not available, then call the 800 number of a couple of companies. The insurance is available, but at inflated premiums.

Failing that, my experience is that the PR can be sued.  I had three teenagers break into a locked garage, hotwire the estate's Cadillac car, and go joyriding. The joyride ended with a collision and the estate got sued. After that, I've been a fan of removing the battery or the coil wire to disable the car.

If you know where the car is located several states away, then the PR could retain someone in the locality to disable the vehicle. Be careful with the wording of the authorization and maybe retain local counsel to pass on the wording of the authorization.

On another occasion where I was the PR, I hired a repo company to take the car from the wrongdoing heir who was using the vehicle without authorization. We succeeded in getting the car, but not without the repo person being discovered during the process and being chased by the wrongdoer and five friends chasing after the car.  Ended well.  Made for great anecdotal stories.

  Bruce Moen
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> on behalf of Mark Anderson <marka at mbaesq.com<mailto:marka at mbaesq.com>>
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2023 11:53 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Estate liability for uninsured driver?


Dear Genissa:



I think it would be appropriate to collect and retain as much evidence as you can that the Estate did not give permission for the vehicles to be used at all by anyone.  This would include all communications with the Decedent's children and grandchildren.  To that end, I recommend following up with a strongly worded letter or email to the Decedent's children and grandchildren specifically stating they do not have and that at no time did they ever have any permission from the Estate to use any of the Decedent's vehicles.  I realize this may be trying to close the barn doors after the cows have escaped but it is still good to memorialize the fact that there was never any permission given by the Estate for anyone to use the vehicles.



If the vehicles are proven to have been used without permission, then I can see no liability of the Estate in the event, for example, that the vehicle is involved in a collision.



I also recommend that you contact the auto insurance carrier to explain the situation and see if they have any comments on steps that might be taken to protect the Estate from liability.



Mark B. Anderson
ANDERSON LAW FIRM PLLC
821 Dock St  Ste 209  PMB 4-12
Tacoma, Washington 98402
+1 253-327-1750
+1 253-327-1751 (fax)
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Genissa Richardson
Sent: 11/09/2023 11:26 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Estate liability for uninsured driver?



Listmates,



Am I correct in thinking that an estate can be held liable if a child or grandchild of the decedent commandeers one of the decedent's vehicles and is driving around uninsured?



Here's my hypothetical fact pattern:



One of the decedent's children is squatting in the home (working on an ejectment) and driving one of the vehicles without insurance or permission from the PR. The PR lives out of state, so it's not as easy as showing up here and taking the keys.



The decedent's other vehicle has been commandeered by one of the decedent's grandchildren and has been driven several states away, again without insurance and without the PR's permission.



All this took place before we could get the PR appointed. The unauthorized drivers may end up getting these vehicles as part of the estate administration process (parties may negotiate TEDRA for terms slightly different than the Will) but it's WAY too soon to know for sure and it doesn't change the fact that the titles (which can't be located) are still in the name of the decedent and neither person has insurance (at least I'm pretty sure they don't).



Both drivers have been told by PR to cease use of the vehicles and return them to the decedent's home, to no avail. Does a strongly worded letter from the estate attorney putting them on formal notice of their wrongdoing help to reduce potential liability to the estate?



PR would prefer not to report the vehicles stolen. Is there a less severe alternative the PR can take to protect the estate?



Any input is appreciated.

Genissa Richardson, Attorney at Law

True North Legal Services, PLLC

301 Prospect St., Bellingham, WA 98225

PO Box 934, Bellingham, WA 98227 (mailing address)

Phone (360) 639-3393

U.S. Coast Guard Veteran



NOTICE OF UNAVAILABILITY:

I am out of the office and unavailable the following dates:

December 22nd, 2023 - January 1st, 2024

January 17th - 29th, 2024



The information transmitted by this email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. This email may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, be aware that any use, review, retransmission, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is strictly prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers.
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