[WSBAPT] Notary Endorsement for Electronic Services

Fri Mar 27 15:49:03 PDT 2020

I have not, but here is my familiarity with the Florida law. 

In Florida the “RON” notary (which requires extra qualification, course, etc.) must be a Florida Notary AND physically present in the State of Florida when they notarize using the RON audio-video communication technology or platform, that is a state qualified. The signor can be located anywhere. 

For example a person can sign a deed in Washington for a California property before a Florida Notary using the platform. Since the notary is physically present in Florida, then it is lawful act. I would check with an title underwriter here in WA, if they would accept a deed executed before a FL RON for a Washington property. In addition, witnesses can also sign remotely in Florida and sign from anywhere, since Florida requires 2 witnesses for a deed to be valid.

Could you use a Florida RON for estate planning documents? I can see why many would be uncomfortable, but we do have a full faith and credit clause.

If acceptable, it could fill in the gap in the interim until Washington rolls this out.

Nestor Gorfinkel, Attorney at Law

Licensed in Washington & Florida

Florida Civil-Law (International) Notary

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From: msafren at jennylinglaw.com <msafren at jennylinglaw.com> 
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 2:56 PM
To: nestor at pplsweb.com; wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com
Subject: RE: [WSBAPT] Notary Endorsement for Electronic Services

Hello Nestor and Listservs:

I saw your post on the RPPT Probate & Trust Listserv.  Quick question have you or anyone else used Notarize or Notary Cam for any signing for anyone who is located in Washington state?  

I’m concerned that they are not using notaries who are licensed in Washington state to notarize documents that were signed by individuals who reside and were physically present in Washington at the time of their signature.

My  first concern is that we cannot rely upon the reciprocity of a notary outside the state of Washington enumerated in RCW 42.45.090 when the person is physically present and residing in the state of Washington.  The key to reciprocity requires  “A notarial act performed in another state “  If the signing occurs in Washington, but the notary is situated in Texas, Florida, or Virginia, the question is where was the notarial act performed?  A notarial act is defined as “an act, whether performed with respect to a tangible or electronic record, that a notarial officer may perform under the law of this state.”  This definition does not offer any clarity because the notarial act is composed of several actions including the witnessing and confirmation of signatory’s identity as well as affixing and signing the acknowledgment.   While the affixing and signing the acknowledge may take place in another state, did the witnessing and identity confirmation take place in another state or did those take place in Washington.  I’m unclear on this point.  

Further, if the notary is not a licensed notary in the state of Washington, then it appears that the notary cannot perform a notarial act in Washington because they are not a notarial officer. A notarial officer is “a notary public or other individual authorized to perform a notarial act.  RCW 45.42.010(8)  By definition a “notary public" means an individual commissioned to perform a notarial act by the director.  RCW 45.42.010(9) Thus,  if the notary is not licensed by the DoL in Washington, it does not appear that they can validly perform a notarization or notarial act here in Washington. 

If you or anyone has any guidance on these points, I would be grateful for your insights or experience. 

Warmest regards,

Michael S. Safren, Esq. 
Attorney at Law 

14900 Interurban Ave. S., Ste. 280 | Seattle, WA 98168 
11900 NE 1st St., Bldg. G - Ste. 300 |  Bellevue, WA 98005 
P: (206) 859-5098 | E: msafren at jennylinglaw.com <mailto:msafren at jennylinglaw.com>  
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>  <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > On Behalf Of nestor at pplsweb.com <mailto:nestor at pplsweb.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 11:18 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Notary Endorsement for Electronic Services

You have to use third party software such as Notarize.com and NotaryCam.

Nestor Gorfinkel, Attorney at Law

Licensed in Washington & Florida

Florida Civil-Law (International) Notary

ATTENTION - This e-mail message and any attachment to this e-mail message may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not review, retransmit, convert to hard copy, copy, use or disseminate this e-mail or any attachments to it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by telephone at the phone numbers provided herein and delete this message. Please note that if this e-mail message contains a forwarded message or is a reply to a prior message, some or all of the contents of this message or any attachments may not have been produced by the sender.

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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>  <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > On Behalf Of Stephen A. Brandli
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 10:41 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Notary Endorsement for Electronic Services

Can one record and save video sessions with any of these technologies?  Must save the recording for 10 years.

                Steve

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>  <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > On Behalf Of Amy Goertz
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 10:28 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: [WSBAPT] Notary Endorsement for Electronic Services

My understanding is that in addition to your regular Notary license, you need to add this endorsement:

https://www.dol.wa.gov/forms/659005.pdf

To that end, any insight into what "electronic software” the courts prefer? I’m assuming this meeting via Zoom, Skype, or other teleconferencing is going to be a permanent addition to our practice.

Amy

Amy J. Goertz, J.D.

Goertz & Lambrecht PLLC

amyjgoertz at icloud.com <mailto:amyjgoertz at icloud.com>  

1.888.926.2607 phone
1.877.684.1627 fax

Address for correspondence:

2829 S. Grand Blvd., Suite 303
Spokane, WA 99203 

Additional office locations:

510 Bell Street
Edmonds, WA 98020

Goertz & Lambrecht PLLC

www.goertzlambrecht.com <http://www.goertzlambrecht.com/> 

On Mar 25, 2020, at 10:09 AM, Thomas M. Culbertson <tculbertson at lukins.com <mailto:tculbertson at lukins.com> > wrote:

Because the witness issue is unresolved, and I suspect can be resolved only by legislation, I haven’t been following this too carefully, but I did notice the following: 

RCW 42.45.280 only applies to “electronic records notary publics”, which are defined at 42.45.010 (5) to be “an individual commissioned by the director to perform a notarial act with respect to electronic records.” Does that mean your run of the mill ordinary notary (like me) has to do something special to take advantage of this provision?

If this has been covered previously on this listserv, my apologies, but frankly the older I get the less embarrassed I am by occasionally proving my ignorance.  😊

________________________________________

THOMAS M. CULBERTSON  I  Lukins & Annis, PS

717 W. Sprague Ave, Suite 1600, Spokane, WA 99201

(509) 455-9555  I  fax (509) 363-2500  I   <mailto:tculbertson at lukins.com> tculbertson at lukins.com

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