[WSBAPT] COVID-19 - Witnessing by Webcam?

Sat Mar 21 14:14:37 PDT 2020

But aren’t the documents being executed here in WA? How does the foreign Notary’s commission authorize notarial acts with respect to conduct physically taking place here in WA? Am I misunderstanding the proposal?

It’s a good thought though. Similar to one I came up with for Catholics if CA decides to disregard the seal of the confessional – virtual confession with priests in NV. 😊

John J. Sullivan

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Kira Rubel
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2020 3:48 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] COVID-19 - Witnessing by Webcam?

Hello, team. 

I'm so interested in this thread as I have numerous clients that would rather not meet to sign.   Here's my analysis on this, and I am hopeful this will trigger someone to remember a case or other law to support this.

On the DPOA, why can't a webcam notary service be used? I'm basing this analysis on RCW 11.125.060 which states that a DPOA executed other than in this state is valid in WA if it complies with the laws of that other jurisdiction. Arguably, a notary whose state law allows virtual notary complies with his/her own state in performing the act and that should make the DPOA valid.   Likewise, RCW 11.12.20 states that wills are valid in WA so long as they comply with state's law where executed. The language is as follows: 

"PROVIDED, That a last will and testament, executed in the mode prescribed by the law of the place where executed or of the testator's domicile, either at the time of the will's execution or at the time of the testator's death, shall be deemed to be legally executed, and shall be of the same force and effect as if executed in the mode prescribed by the laws of this state."

At the very least, it may be a temporary bandaid and then you could have the clients re-sign documents after all this is over.  Or maybe I'm nuts. Admittedly it is a bit of a stretch. However, I do know other practitioners (in CA for example, which has similar language to WA) who are implementing this strategy. In any case, I'd love to hear feedback from our more experienced practitioners on this topic!  

Thank you in advance for weighing in.

Kira M. Rubel

*Licensed in CA and WA

The Harbor Law Group (formerly, Law Office of Kira M. Rubel)

3615 Harborview Drive NW, Suite C (on the dock)

Gig Harbor, WA 98332-2129 

Tel.  (253) 251-2955 | (800) 836-6531

Fax. (206) 238-1694

Zoom ID. (253) 251-2977

www.theharborlawgroup.com <http://www.theharborlawgroup.com> 

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On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 11:25 AM David Faber <david at faberfeinson.com <mailto:david at faberfeinson.com> > wrote:

Hi Roger,

You are correct that notarization is not possible by webcam at this point in time. My question was about witnessing and whether a webcam would sufficiently constitute being "in the presence of the principal" for a POA under RCW. 11.125.050 as the alternative to notarization authorized therein.

Best,

David J. Faber

Faber Feinson PLLC

210 Polk Street, Suite 1

Port Townsend, WA 98368
(360) 379-4110

*** NOTICE: ATTORNEY CLIENT COMMUNICATION - PRIVILEGED & CONFIDENTIAL.  This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and destroy the copy you received.***

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 11:14 AM Roger Hawkes <Roger at law-hawks.com <mailto:Roger at law-hawks.com> > wrote:

I believe that notarization has to be in the physical presence of the signer; I think that should also be changed by legislation to allow electronic viewing of the signing.

Roger Hawkes, WSBA # 5173

Hawkes Law Firm, P.S. and Sky Valley Lawyers, PLLC

Office: 19944 Ballinger Way NE

              Shoreline, WA 98155

                         And

               423 Main, Sultan, WA 98294

               Voice: 206 367 5000

                Fax:    206 367 4005

                 <http://www.hawkeslawfirm.com> www.hawkeslawfirm.com

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>  <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > On Behalf Of David Faber
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2020 10:58 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: [WSBAPT] COVID-19 - Witnessing by Webcam?

As we face lockdown due to COVID-19 (and doubly so because our client base is more likely to be in a vulnerable population), I'm exploring how much can be done using technological solutions. Specifically: 

(1) Pursuant to RCW 11.125.050(1), would witnessing a POA signing by webcam sufficiently constitute being "in the presence of the principal"?

(2) Similarly, would witnessing a signature on a Will be sufficient for signing a self-proving affidavit?

Seems to me the answer to (2) is slightly closer to an easy "yes" than (1) given all the leniency to the witnessing requirements that exist, but I'm in the dark here and wondering if anyone has any specific knowledge or experience that could prove helpful and instructive at this point in time. I would surmise this entire list would greatly appreciate this knowledge and practice advice while we try to navigate this unprecedented health crisis.

Best,

David J. Faber

Faber Feinson PLLC

210 Polk Street, Suite 1

Port Townsend, WA 98368
(360) 379-4110

*** NOTICE: ATTORNEY CLIENT COMMUNICATION - PRIVILEGED & CONFIDENTIAL.  This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and destroy the copy you received.***

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